Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow.

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There’s a place I frequently walk. It’s a huge botanical garden. There’s 3 free complementary charging stations for members. I walk 1+ hour. If I can talk my wife into an EV, we could charge while we walk.
Problem is, theyre going to need 50 of them by next year.
At home the Leaf will add about 24 miles of range in 1 hour. It has the 6.6 amp rated charger which draws about 26 when charging and if I had a 16 amp cable it would charge about 12 miles an hour of course the 120 volt charge cord give me 6 mi of range per hour.
 

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From another post it seems to be related to tailpipe emission test results only. From what I have been reading today it seems like the carbon credits helps fossil fuel vehicle manufacturers keep their doors open and not get shut down by the government because of emissions standards. Honda and FCA were the two buying carbon credits from Tesla from a Google search. GM is good thanks to the Volt/Bolt and and Ford learned the carbon credit rules early on it seems. For autos the need to buy carbon credits is quickly becoming a thing of the past because manufacturers are moving to vehicles that meet the federal standard or state standards or merging with other auto makers.
GM is buying credits from Tesla as of 2019.
 
  
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GM is buying credits from Tesla as of 2019.
Well I have everything to learn on this subject. Sounds like GM is started to wake up and see the light. Sounds like they're taking a play out of Tesla's hand book and getting into the EV business in a serious way which means making their own EV batteries.

 

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Maybe the workers can live in Slab City in harmony with all the squatter hippies living on SSI checks.
That place is such a mess, a lithium mine is probably it’s only salvation….
 
  
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Facing Emission Fines, Ford Becomes Ravenous for Carbon Credits


Other Automakers Paid Tesla a Record $428 Million Last Quarter​


Thanks for these two articles. The reader's comments on the first article was extremely helpful.

I was thinking the carbon credit thing was about to go away but it sounds like it's just getting it high gear and I did not even know about the need for them in the EC.

What boggles my mind is why the manufacturers did not do like Tesla was doing instead of paying Tesla to get them out of the crack temporarily?

Now I understand why Tesla is working around the clock to be able to get 2 million new EVS on the market in 2022 to help the old OEMs players so they don't totally miss the EV evolution. It seems like Tesla does have a soft spot for Volkswagen.
 

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the Salton Sea, which is one of the most polluted places on the planet due to decades of agricultural runoff.
 

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Cap and Trade - History of Carbon Credits and Carbon Trading

No wonder I did not understand this subject. 50 years this subject was not even on my radar anymore than our farting cows.
It's not just farting cows, it's also those darn feral hogs:

 

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Rivian just announced a delay in production due to a shortage of materials. Deliveries were supposed to start end of this month. Minimum, two month delay.
Considering Ford can't even produce a garden variety gas powered F150 this is not surprising.
 

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Enron all over again.

We were building a building on an empty lot. had to plant so many trees or pay into a tree fund. Just another cash grab.
 
  
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The body shop got to working with the Leafs this week so it seems like we're heading in the right direction. Sounds like the timing is good.

 
  
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The mother of 5 of Elon Musk's 6 sons.
 
  
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Cutting range anxiety for non Tesla owners of EVS
 

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Advances in
Re cycling any LI batteries and produce all critical new battery grade materials.
Recovery efficiency of over 95% with a patented process.

Hopefully the forward looking statements are born out.


Also discussed on Autoline after Hours
 

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The body shop got to working with the Leafs this week so it seems like we're heading in the right direction. Sounds like the timing is good.

There's a good chance the current administration will be completely neutered after 2022 and that would effect their efforts to crush the petroleum industry. I tend to take these predictions with a grain of salt as I've seen so many of them never come to fruition. The one that sticks in my mind the most was when Rick Wagoner, CEO of GM, predicted in about 2008 that gas prices would continue to rise above $4-$5 for the foreseeable future and we would all be driving good mileage little cars around. LOL the exact opposite happened and Rick was out in 2009.
 
  
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In my case this would be a huge safety feature. EVs are most efficient at 20 mph speeds.
 

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In the near term, (and likely long term) EV's are only a city vehicle. There is not really a need for many charging stations as people charge at home and/or at work. Driving a long distance (like here in Texas) is useless in them. Batteries will need to have double the current capacity or 1/12 of the charge times to make them practical for travel around much of the U.S. For those of you unfamiliar with the distances involved...the DFW metroplex is larger than the entire state of Rhode Island (wider, longer and more populous). El Paso is closer to Los Angeles, California than it is to Dallas. To drive a typical EV from Dallas to El Paso would take 2-3 full charges taking at best about 2 hours each time.

In my book, the best alternatives are (short term) Hybrids. My wife drives a Prius Prime. It Plugs in at home and has about a 20 mile EV range. It also has a 10 gallon gas take and the same regenerative charging of the regular Prius. That gives it about 95 MPG and she can literally drive from Dallas to El Paso on one tank of regular gasoline. The Prime also comes in the Rav4 with 4WD. The standard charging cord plugs into a regular home outlet and fully charges in about 5 hours. You can get an optional 220 version that will cut the charge time to about 2.5. But with the Prime, if you don't stop to charge, you are still running on the same powertrain as the very efficient Prius. With an EV, you run out of charge and you stop.

The next best option is going to be Hydrogen Fuel cells. Not to be a Toyota fanboy, but they are well ahead in this as well. The biggest issue with hydrogen in the US is that you do need specialized fueling options. You cannot just find an AC adapter. The current generation of Murai (Toyota's primary Fuel Cell platform) gets about 400 miles to a 'tank'. It takes 5 minutes to refuel. Zero emissions.

Ultimately, IMHO, the relevance to this site is that if most passenger vehicles and short haul delivery vehicles were using one of these options, there would be no reason to spend resources on making farm equipment more green. Use the advantages where applicable, but the numbers are not there and farm vehicles are not densely packed, so the air...wait for it...essentially cleans itself. Particulates settle into the ground and the trees 'breathe' the CO2.
 

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A buddy of mine and his wife, drive from Washington state to Arizona to visit a daughter. He was driving a Chevy Bolt, but now has a Volkswagen EV. He likes to post pics of the places they charge up. They look like some nice picnic areas and he says it's a nice break in their drive. He says he'll never go back to an ICE vehicle as his primary driver.

Most of his work travel is air travel and rents whatever vehicle is available as needed.
 
  
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Sounds like Henry Ford's DNA made an impact on Tesla.
 

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Eventually it can go back to the politicians that forced electric vehicles on people.
 

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Based on the information in the article, it seems that someone was buying gas and walked away. He then put the gas in a car somewhere else and drove. If, for instance, my wife was driving and I was the passenger, I would be walking to the gas station to get gas. If I was drunk and bought gas to take back to her, it does not necessarily follow that she is drunk and cannot safely drive. Sounds like someone had bad legal counsel.
 

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Ultimately, IMHO, the relevance to this site is that if most passenger vehicles and short haul delivery vehicles were using one of these options, there would be no reason to spend resources on making farm equipment more green. Use the advantages where applicable, but the numbers are not there and farm vehicles are not densely packed, so the air...wait for it...essentially cleans itself. Particulates settle into the ground and the trees 'breathe' the CO2.
You might be OK on here, but don't you be running around in public, using that UnCommon Sense you are so obviously fond of !

You might get kidnapped by Team Green (not the tractor-one), and re-Edjumacated ! :alien::alien::alien:

Can't say I'm a fan of cities, but DFW is one of my favourite big ones.

Rgds, D
 

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In Vancouver, every car space in new hotels must have an EV charger

It would be interesting to see the the results of that mandate.
An "EV charger", they mean a fast charger which is rather pointless if you are staying in a hotel. Most stays would be at least 5-6 hours to catch some sleep and get back on the road. Even if you were in favor of the government mandating this type of minutia and thought it made sense for 100% of spaces in the parking lot to have them, a regular plug would work. I have not been to the Canadian Vancouver, but in many northern states there are AC plug-ins already for engine heaters. Those would work for regular charging. The article does not mention the cost, so my guess is that hotels will have a nice new income stream to charge for the convenience of each stall being 'wired'. (or rates for everyone go up to subsidize those of use with plug-in vehicles. heck, I own one and don't want this) High rollers will get complimentary 'free' charging, but people cannot seem to grasp the idea that you cannot make a business pay for anything, it is an economic impossibility. All business expenses come from the pockets of the owners, employees and customers in one way or another.
 
  
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Locally the hotels are starting to do this and they are basically provided by Tesla and they had two destination Chargers and they also put in one of the the old standard J1776 or whatever like my leaf and some of the early EVs used.

There is no charge if you're staying in the hotel and they really don't have an option to charge unless you are in the hotel and but again I understanding Tesla covers the cost in this location and the hotels have to foot the electric bill.

Since we are an EV free zone seldom are they used but that will change over time.

When I first got our Nissan Leaf I did charge on one of the Destination Chargers for 15 or 20 minutes just to test the adapter and it worked fine. They're just 240 volt home chargers.
 
  
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Does anyone know any evidence that the USA is trying to keep BYD from selling EVs in the USA? That is the Chinese EV corporation that Warren Buffett has been invested in for many years.

 

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Fast chargers in a hotel would be a bad thing, it would encourage people to sneak into hotel lots while running errands or whatever. Then the hotels would have to police their lots. When I know I need to make a call while driving, I often pull into hotel lots during the day to be legal (they almost always have open spots then). If I had an EV and the hotel had fast chargers.......

As has been mentioned, who needs a fast charger if you are staying the night and paying for the room?
 

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Let's see if it stands up to the inevitable court challenge. IMHO just another case of government overstepping.
BC….. different world. ICE cars are evil…. haven’t you heard…..

Gasoline is about $1.60 - $1.70/L, most of it taxes. Right in Vancouver, there are virtually no gas stations anymore.

You can have a (dope) smoke-in in the middle of an intersection, with enough smoke you’d have to close the road anyway. No Harm/Foul…..

But…. Question any allegedly “green” initiative and you’re gonna be in big trouble……

It’s a beautiful Province, but I wouldn’t live in the lower-mainland, even if I could afford to.

Rgds, D.
 

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If I had an EV and the hotel had fast chargers.......
With all the stupid "Smart" tech out there, it would be trivial to interlock the EV charger with a room-rental transaction.

Even if electricity is cheap locally, the incentive for business would be to keep the charger available for renting customers.

If I had an EV, and booked a room there planning to recharge, I would not be impressed with Joe Schmo sleeping in his charging EV, because he was too cheap/broke to rent a room.

Rgds, D.
 

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Does anyone know any evidence that the USA is trying to keep BYD from selling EVs in the USA? That is the Chinese EV corporation that Warren Buffett has been invested in for many years.

I haven't gone chasing that story, and probably won't....... but I wouldn't be surprised to see today's version of the Chicken Tax slid into place....

Rgds, D.
 
  
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In some countries McDonald's has free Chargers for to get more customers.

All we have to do is watch what happens in Western Europe to see the trends that will be soon in the United states.

I think we're pushing the envelope too fast in the United states. Just this week Tesla had another $1,000 price increase announced on certain models because of the EV demand is just so overwhelming and there's very few makers and no makers of the quality of Tesla.
 

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Grid uptime. 2 articles, one more general, one mostly technical.

The US has more power outages than any other developed country. Here’s why.

An assessment of threats to the American power grid - Energy, Sustainability and Society

I hadn't heard of the 1921 Railroad storm before. It is estimated to be 10x the 1989 storm that took down Quebec, and destroyed that large xformer in New Jersey.

I do like EVs, for certain applications. I also know a bit about the magic that keeps the grid running. I'd suggest that anyone who is considering owning a non-hybrid EV as a sole vehicle read and understand the risks discussed in the second article.

Under widespread relatively short-term power outages, one of my priorities is being able to retain mobility for critical needs - medical transport, food, water, medications, evacuations..... I have a plan B with ICE - stock extra fuel. Even under totally normal conditions, I travel remote parts of Canada with 40L of extra fuel for ICE.

You can have a backup plan for EV transport, but after the grid is down is not the time to start thinking about it......

Complexity. I may sound like a Luddite at times, but it is precisely because I do understand what some of the failure points are, that I have concerns. In my case, this is not Fear of the UnKnown, but rather the knowns.....

There is a great paragraph in the second linked article, that relates to what I bang on about....

"The ability to operate a system in the absence of computer-driven actions is fast disappearing. The electric power industry spends over $1.4 billion dollars annually to replace electromechanical systems and devices that involve manual operation with new SCADA equipment [60]. With modest increases in efficiency come exponential increases in vulnerability. The extent to which reduced labor costs (and perhaps reduced energy costs) are passed on to the public is uncertain."

Rgds, D.
 
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All we have to do is watch what happens in Western Europe to see the trends that will be soon in the United states.
I agree that Western EU bears watching.

There are enough differences though (Tax policy, and fuel cost being two obvious ones), that I don't think uptake in the US will be as rapid.

Densities and geography are part of what dictate different priorities (or, at least should), between here and across the pond....

Rgds, D.
 
  
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If David Adair is for real fossil fuel is ancient history.
 
  
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I agree that Western EU bears watching.

There are enough differences though (Tax policy, and fuel cost being two obvious ones), that I don't think uptake in the US will be as rapid.

Densities and geography are part of what dictate different priorities (or, at least should), between here and across the pond....

Rgds, D.
It has been nearly 50 years since I lived in Western Europe and from my observation over time we run more or less 20 years behind Western Europe.
 

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With all the stupid "Smart" tech out there, it would be trivial to interlock the EV charger with a room-rental transaction.
.
with all the "smart" tech out there it would be trivial to defeat the room-rental requirement. :rolleyes:
 

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with all the "smart" tech out there it would be trivial to defeat the room-rental requirement. :rolleyes:
In my version of the real world, people that can drive $100k EVs can afford to "fuel" it.

Is what it Is though...... if you're motivated enough, you can crack anything.....

I've seen a surveillance video of 2 guys wirelessly cracking a Tesla in the owner's driveway in the UK.... didn't take long at all......

What did crack me up though...... the only thing that seemed to slow them at all, was unplugging the charge cord, they almost had to drive off with it attached.....

Rgds, D.
 

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How can a car MFG get carbon credits when to charge said Vehicle it almost always requires fossil fuels?
Because in spite of what the lazy media and lazy EV haters say, they are not carbon credits.

CARB states dock points for elements of conventional ICE vehicles which our superiors in the bureaucracy do not like. Subaru for example jumps through the stipulated hoops for their ICE vehicles to qualify as PZEV, Partial Zero Emission Vehicle, so as to minimize the Clean Vehicle Credits needed to sell in CARB states.

FFV Flex Fuel Vehicle also reduces the number of credits required to sell the vehicle.

CARB thinks battery swap EV is still a good idea and gives extra credits to manufacturers selling such in CARB states. Tesla took them up on this for several years. Then forced to actually field a swap station which produced even more credits but not enough to keep it in operation so they lost all battery swap credits from new vehicles after that.

As for the lame “fossil fuel electricity” argument, coal-fired electricity in a Model 3 is equivalent to 50 MPG gasoline. Plus unlike the gasoline vehicle an EV can effortlessly use any electric power source, vs requiring a very precise formulation of gasoline. For $10,000 you can buy a PV system and never again pay to fuel your EV. No moving parts. No byproducts. No scheduled maintenance.
 

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For $10,000 you can buy a PV system and never again pay to fuel your EV. No moving parts. No byproducts. No scheduled maintenance.
Show me some math and a implementation plan for this please. You must know way more about PV systems than I do!

I would like to see exactly what type of system you ”think” you can put in for $10k (please include array, inverter, and storage if you expect to charge at night).
 
  
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In the drive through?
Yes
It is a pain however because cables are only 20 ft long so every 40 ft you have to disconnect and connect to the next one up the line.
 

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Grid uptime. 2 articles, one more general, one mostly technical.

The US has more power outages than any other developed country. Here’s why.

An assessment of threats to the American power grid - Energy, Sustainability and Society

I hadn't heard of the 1921 Railroad storm before. It is estimated to be 10x the 1989 storm that took down Quebec, and destroyed that large xformer in New Jersey.

I do like EVs, for certain applications. I also know a bit about the magic that keeps the grid running. I'd suggest that anyone who is considering owning a non-hybrid EV as a sole vehicle read and understand the risks discussed in the second article.

Under widespread relatively short-term power outages, one of my priorities is being able to retain mobility for critical needs - medical transport, food, water, medications, evacuations..... I have a plan B with ICE - stock extra fuel. Even under totally normal conditions, I travel remote parts of Canada with 40L of extra fuel for ICE.

You can have a backup plan for EV transport, but after the grid is down is not the time to start thinking about it......

Complexity. I may sound like a Luddite at times, but it is precisely because I do understand what some of the failure points are, that I have concerns. In my case, this is not Fear of the UnKnown, but rather the knowns.....

There is a great paragraph in the second linked article, that relates to what I bang on about....

"The ability to operate a system in the absence of computer-driven actions is fast disappearing. The electric power industry spends over $1.4 billion dollars annually to replace electromechanical systems and devices that involve manual operation with new SCADA equipment [60]. With modest increases in efficiency come exponential increases in vulnerability. The extent to which reduced labor costs (and perhaps reduced energy costs) are passed on to the public is uncertain."

Rgds, D.


You aren’t considering off grid applications. You can prep for sustaining a EV the same as a ICE. You would just need to build an off grid charging system with a PV array, inverter. You could use solar to charge the EV directly.

However, it would be more costly than storing say 100L of fuel…but after that fuel runs out and if there is no electricity will you be able to get more fuel from the gas station?

Personally if you really wanted something to sustain in a long term grid down scenario….a EV with off grid solar is the way to go.

The key here is you would be charging fairly slowly and you can only charge it when the full sun is out, and you probably can’t use the array for anything else. So yes it is expensive, but in a SHTF or long term power outage…this is the best protection I can think of. The next item of business would be keeping it from thieves.
 
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