Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2

   / Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2 #11  
...at some point these EV companies need to survive with out .gov bennies.
I agree. However, the subsidies wouldn't have worked without the believers also supporting them with their pocketbooks.
 
   / Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2 #12  
There has been a marked shift of capital out of EV companies now that the BBB is dead. I don't disagree, at some point these EV companies need to survive with out .gov bennies.
Do you mind documenting just what “.gov bennies” are available to EV companies? Or are you just repeating what you heard and liked?

There is a Federal tax credit still available for some brands but Tesla burned through theirs 5 years ago.

CARB states impose quotas on sales if new “polluting” vehicles. Must use Clean Air Credits earned selling blessed vehicles to be allowed to sell ICE vehicles. Tesla makes good money selling permission for conventional automobile makers to continue selling in California and other regressive states.

But the above amounts to very little.

Those counting in BBB to make them rich are no different than Solindra. No intent to acutually succeed. Pump up the company with DoE money. Cash out. Company collapses leaving DoE loans uncollectable.
 
   / Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2 #13  
Do you mind documenting just what “.gov bennies” are available to EV companies? Or are you just repeating what you heard and liked?

There is a Federal tax credit still available for some brands but Tesla burned through theirs 5 years ago.

CARB states impose quotas on sales if new “polluting” vehicles. Must use Clean Air Credits earned selling blessed vehicles to be allowed to sell ICE vehicles. Tesla makes good money selling permission for conventional automobile makers to continue selling in California and other regressive states.

But the above amounts to very little.

Those counting in BBB to make them rich are no different than Solindra. No intent to acutually succeed. Pump up the company with DoE money. Cash out. Company collapses leaving DoE loans uncollectable.
Since anything politics gets the axe, you will have to go see all the EV incentives in BBB yourself.

Sorry.
 
   / Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2 #14  
Since anything politics gets the axe, you will have to go see all the EV incentives in BBB yourself.

Sorry.
In other words, you admit there are none.
 
   / Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2 #16  
It's not like non EV vehicle producers don't get massive government benefits. In the last depression Ford got $5B in loans and I have a hard time figuring out what GM got but it was a lot more. I'm sure they were not the only ones.

I'm interested in electric vehicle tech even if I'm not all that thrilled by electric cars personally. Let's try to keep politics out of this thread for a while.
 
   / Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2 #17  
There was another thread started after the first was closed... titled
“Electric Vehicles 2”, or something like that.
I only mention it because the OP apparently deleted his post, so it looks like I started it. (I didn’t.)
You could always go back and edit or delete your post. It is a shame the original thread was closed, but it was getting a bit over the top with the all out fanaticism.

It would be great if there was a thread to discuss the details of mass adoption of EVs without all the incessant hype about them. How many years have we been hearing about the latest "battery breakthroughs"? So much hype over so long a time with so many failures that it's hard to get excited about the next gee wiz EV "breakthrough" until it makes it into commercial production and actually lives up to the hype.

In the real world the little details matter. Someone brought up the charging stations for inner city use and the potential for vandalism. The scrappers around here go after anything, so in a city like Detroit how long will a charging station last? Charging stations will have to be hardened like ATM's and details like the cord will have to retract and be locked up when not in use. It wouldn't be surprising if the scrappers unplugged a car (or not) while it was charging and hacked the cord off for the copper wires.

Catalytic converter theft; do/will EVs have any similar attractive parts that are easy to steal and scrap? Once there is enough EVs on the roads any weaknesses will be exploited by the thieves.

Then there are the different safety aspects of EV's for mechanics and first responders. 600+ VDC is nothing to play around with. The picture below is of a dunking tank to extinguish battery fires: Electric vehicles: More danger to rescuers?

BMW%20in%20water%20container_0.png



Dunking an EV into a tank of water to extinguish a battery fire was an unexpected solution. Not sure how practical that would be for most areas. Just the tip of the iceberg. Lots of new challenges ahead as EVs become widespread.
 
   / Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2 #18  
In other words, you admit there are none.
Serious question, do you have any idea how much our government has spent in total on EVs so far? I couldn't find any comprehensive totals to date of all the subsidies, tax breaks, research funding, etc pertaining to EVs, their components and their needed infrastructure. It appears the subsides/handouts/funding started over 45 years ago in 1976 with HR 8800 allocating $160 million (that's $750 mil in today's dollars) for EV research and limited production. 2009 was a big year when $2.4 billion ($3.11 billion in today's dollars) in funding was announced. GM and Tesla have hit the 200,000 vehicle cap. If only half of those EV buyers took the tax credit that's another $1.5 billion. I think we'd all be shocked at the number if all the government tax dollars spent on EVs over all the years were totaled up.

Here in Michigan several years ago the feds and state government tossed $1.4 billion at four EV battery companies, which all declared bankruptcy. And that points out another form of subsidy or cost that goes uncounted in this push for EVs: the costs to all the businesses that get shafted when these subsidized companies go bankrupt. I've witnessed this harm with the ongoing renewable fuels debacle and many businesses, including mom and pop size ones, get harmed by these bankruptcies.

If anyone knows a good source for finding the total amount the government has spend over the years on EVs, please share!

I'm not anti EV, but let's be honest about them, honest about their true costs and honest about the likely consequences of their wide spread adoption. I could see getting one for commuting, though by the time used ones are affordable, proven to handle corrosion in the rust belt, proven to not be fire hazards (sort of kidding) and shown to not be money pits, my commuting days will likely be over. And for how often the power goes out in my neighborhood, I will always have non electric fueled vehicle as a backup.
 
   / Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2 #19  
I am all for the "stand on their own" thinking for EV companies. Actually for most everything as 'stand on their own' vs government subsidies. But no individual can influence the government, all the time, to their own wishes. So, for example, with Brandon's BBB helping the EV companies, I go with the flow and buy Tesla stock instead of their cars! ................ Although I do want a Tesla Roadster!!!!
 
   / Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2 #20  
Minimum 216 miles round trip to work on current project for next few years.
Handles the point A-B-A quite nicely and is faster than most anything on the road around me. Currently, less than $2.50/day ‘fuel’ cost. Someday that will change. Today it works.

One of the only vehicles in its price range that can be bought new and sold for more than purchased 10,000miles later. Someday that will also change, like when supply gets remotely close to demand.

Diesel truck stays in the barn unless something besides people needs hauled or I feel the need to drive my manly truck.

……..

Here come the EV will never work comments, EV is a fad, ICE rules, can never use EV to move heavy loads, grid will collapse, commute to grocery store down the block only, a tow truck will never figure out how to get that AWD vehicle on a flatbed, what else? I come here to see the comments of the most closed minded people on the interwebs! Entertainment for me while I sit on the pot.




Never mind some of the largest earth moving machines on the planet are electric and have been for decades.
 
 
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