Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2

[Grumpycat]

In the past many vehicles were run on propane. Pretty simple procedure to fill up. Nothing complicated about it.

Propane and CNG retrofits are available from most OTR truck engine manufacturers. Is not trivial, the engine gets totally rebuilt, new pistons, heads, intake, and exhaust. But it bolts in the same place as the diesel engine.

 

[deserteagle71]

In the past many vehicles were run on propane. Pretty simple procedure to fill up. Nothing complicated about it.

Absolutely. I modified my van to run dual fuel back in the 70s when there was a "gas crisis" and so many stations were out of gasoline. 80 gallons of propane, plus 36 gallons of gasoline - I had pretty darn good driving range before needing to refuel. Drove this van for 32+ years.

I no longer have a propane powered vehicle but my home propane tank is set up so I can fill my own propane bottles - or fuel a vehicle. As you say, simple procedure.

 

[Grumpycat]

According to Navistar, recharge on the medium duty trucks was 90 minutes on their proprietary 440 volt 3 phase charge that delivers over 220 amps and the trucks have on board electronic battery conditioning too. 90 minutes might work in a large fleet application but for an individual or small service fleet, that won't work. The other issue that bubbles up is safety. 440/3 can kill you or cook you in a second. Cannot imagine hooking one up in the rain... Why High pressure hydrogen don't work. You have to be certified to fuel one unlike diesel where you pull up to the pump, stick the nozzle in the tank and fill it. Even propane is questionable. One of my hunting buds owns the local propane company and runs his private truck on propane and 2 years ago we went to Nebraska for a hunt and took his truck and he had to fill the bed mounted bottle a couple times and that is a complex procedure in itself and the pressures are about 1/10th of Hydrogen.

Navistar has a sad history of product development. Built the Powerstroke for Ford until 2011. Both the 6.0L and 6.4L were such a reliability disaster that Ford built the 6.7L themselves.

Navistar is trying to buy parts off the shelf. They are not going to design and build their own electric motor, battery, or control electronics. They get away with this buying conventional ICE, transmission, and other components so it is very hard to teach an old dog new tricks.

On the other hand the Tesla Semi is home designed and built by people with a track record of doing the impossible and pushing boundaries. Tesla says their semi will consume less than 2kWh/mile at 80,000 pounds, with 300 or optional 500 mile range. This means at least 1000 kWh battery.

"440/3 (220A) can kill you or cook you in a second. Cannot imagine hooking one up in the rain... " I wonder what else might kill someone? We connect 120 kW Tesla Superchargers in the rain all the time. Even the new 250 kW. I know the 120 kW is 400VDC at 300A. No one has ever been shocked. I have written before how amazing Tesla's technology that allows common untrained idiots to make such a high power connection. Even in the rain.

440/3 at 220A is 168 kW. 90 minutes, if it was possible to charge at the 100% rate for the full 90 minutes, the Navistar is only 250 kWh.

Tesla has not published charge rates for the Semi but prototypes have been spotted using an "octopus" connected to at least 6 Superchargers at 120 kW each. A logical guess would be the 1000 kWh battery consists of (10) 100 kWh Model X/S battery assemblies. Each of which could be charged separately using (10) BCMs Tesla is already building. So with (10) 250 kW Superchargers one could be in/out pretty quickly.

But no one has said the intended use of a Tesla Semi is coast-to-coast crossings but haters like to pretend every use is the worst case. Early pre-sales have been to big distribution services where the truck goes out in the morning and returns by evening, often several times. Or out in the evening and back by morning. To local stores and back. Where they can build large charging stations at the distribution warehouse. This would be a very natural and productive use of an EV semi.

 

[Grumpycat]

In the past many vehicles were run on propane. Pretty simple procedure to fill up. Nothing complicated about it.

Even today Ford offers F-150 and other models with a "Propane prep kit" from the factory. Ford doesn't offer Propane or CNG but has an orderable option which includes things which make it easier. Difficult things such as hardened valves and valve seats. Maybe different pistons.

 

[sd455dan]

Department of the Navy Research been holding out on battery tech using Nickel / Zinc?

US20210020916A1 - Zinc electrode improvements - Google Patents ??

Giga factory battery production by converting old lead acid plants 1/3 weight, 3 times the life, 3 times the energy. Can replace Any lead acid battery in any application.
reduced fire danger, Cheaper, no 1/3 world labor needed extracting Cobalt or other rare earth materials.

 

[5030]

The issue with all of it distills down to the national grid and it's ability or inability to support the added load and presently it's not capable of it and will only get worse, not better as baseload capacity is taken off line.

EV people are living in a dream world far as I'm concerned. the reality is, as the load increases, the chance of failure also increases.

It's like catch 22. You want it, but it's not readily available.

Far as Navistar is concerned, I don't follow them at all other than my 97 F350 has a Navistar 7.3 forged rod engine that is reliable as a rock.

 

[5030]

Even today Ford offers F-150 and other models with a "Propane prep kit" from the factory. Ford doesn't offer Propane or CNG but has an orderable option which includes things which make it easier. Difficult things such as hardened valves and valve seats. Maybe different pistons.

Cummins also offers propane fired engines, most used in the oil patch.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

The issue with all of it distills down to the national grid and it's ability or inability to support the added load and presently it's not capable of it and will only get worse, not better as baseload capacity is taken off line.

EV people are living in a dream world far as I'm concerned. the reality is, as the load increases, the chance of failure also increases.

It's like catch 22. You want it, but it's not readily available.

Far as Navistar is concerned, I don't follow them at all other than my 97 F350 has a Navistar 7.3 forged rod engine that is reliable as a rock.

More 5030 grid mythology.

 

[MossRoad]

…- or fuel a vehicle. As you say, simple procedure.

Righty righty lefty loosey doesn’t work.

 

[sd455dan]

The issue with all of it distills down to the national grid and it's ability or inability to support the added load and presently it's not capable of it and will only get worse, not better as baseload capacity is taken off line.

EV people are living in a dream world far as I'm concerned. the reality is, as the load increases, the chance of failure also increases.

It's like catch 22. You want it, but it's not readily available.

Far as Navistar is concerned, I don't follow them at all other than my 97 F350 has a Navistar 7.3 forged rod engine that is reliable as a rock.

Grid storage does work. Inverters and load syncing do work.

large scale Battery storage is just starting to really advance.

This will help: Tesla’s Virtual Machine Mode technology.

Tesla's Virtual Machine Mode Rolls Out in Australia!

Here's how it can provide energy grid stabilization.

www.techtimes.com

I always thought natural gas powered Bloom Boxes could also help keep the Grid UP and by being less centralized a more robust grid at that.

New Bloom Energy fuel cell factory expected to produce over 1 GW a year amid rising reliability threats

The $200 million facility will help Bloom meet the growing demand for its fuel cells to provide power during outages and periods of intense demand on the grid.

www.utilitydive.com

imo Molten salt Nuclear reactors are needed to bridge the time gap

until Hopefully... Fusion reactors can be perfected.