Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2

[/pine]

Hydrogen remains a Fool's Errand, just like ethanol. It's primary advantage is that it retains an infrastructure that government is familiar with regulating, taxing, selling favors to, and extracting campaign contributions. Electricity upsets that apple cart.

Hydrogen is very hard to handle. Material which is not embrittled by presence of hydrogen is very expensive.

Fuel cells are very expensive and delicate.

Hydrogen consumes 3x the energy per mile traveled as one would put electricity in a Tesla. So to economically produce hydrogen we use natural gas, which is supposed to be the problem which is supposedly being solved.

There you go again...who said anything about hydrogen (in the context of this discussion (obsoletion))???

FYI one thing that you've obviously not considered is advancement in actual battery technology (talk about a fool's errand)...a battery or other source of electric storage that would offer say 1K mile range would greatly reduce the need for so many charging stations...In this scenario...those with older EVs that can't be retrofitted will just be considered collateral damage...

 

[Grumpycat]

Actually typical logic would say that as the time of a charge goes down and the range of batteries goes up so will the price...

That is Leftest economic belief. That the size of the pie is fixed.

In Capitalist economic practice one is rewarded with profits for figuring out how to make the pie bigger. Figure out how to make a better battery and one can charge proportionally more as you claim above. But only until someone else figures out how to build a battery as good or better than yours then undercuts your price.

As it stands the cost of a replacement ICE is much less than a replacement battery...

If you mean a Chevrolet Volt, then yes. Chevrolet doesn't care about their customers and has priced Volt replacement batteries beyond reason at around $28k. Then again Chevrolet has few to no replacement batteries to sell. This is no different than the price of out-of-print DVDs on Amazon. 3rd parties have found it not terribly hard to gut a Volt battery to replace the cells for $5k to $7k. And make a profit.

Worst case Tesla battery is $20k. Even then you can't buy an ICE nearly as nice for twice the price.

 

[/pine]

I tried 100% biodiesel in my 40 year old Yanmar 240. Sourced from a Reno refiner so I expect it was filtered casino kitchen grease. It was hard to start and I think it crudded up the injectors, so I replaced them. (original, 40 years use). Went back to Diesel.

And - I saw a magazine from years ago showing a Yanmar 240 converted to run from several truck batteries. It seemed to be sufficient for tilling a commune vegetable garden. But I doubt it could run all day. I've never seen mention of it since.

Regular "truck batteries" would not last long constantly being charged and discharged like deep cycle batteries are made for...

 

[deserteagle71]

The big thing for Tesla was Musk's outrageous plan to build the first Gigafactory battery plant in Nevada. This one factory was sized to double the Earth's total production of lithium batteries. [/URL]

I drive by the Gigafactory every time I go to Reno...it is located right alongside I-80. It was built there because two huge deposits of lithium were discovered here in Nevada. Both sites are now tied up in court because the tree huggers suddenly discovered "endangered" species living where the mines were to be built. So as of right now no one knows whether there will be any raw material for the batteries.

 

[/pine]

That is Leftest economic belief. That the size of the pie is fixed.

In Capitalist economic practice one is rewarded with profits for figuring out how to make the pie bigger. Figure out how to make a better battery and one can charge proportionally more as you claim above. But only until someone else figures out how to build a battery as good or better than yours then undercuts your price.


If you mean a Chevrolet Volt, then yes. Chevrolet doesn't care about their customers and has priced Volt replacement batteries beyond reason at around $28k. Then again Chevrolet has few to no replacement batteries to sell. This is no different than the price of out-of-print DVDs on Amazon. 3rd parties have found it not terribly hard to gut a Volt battery to replace the cells for $5k to $7k. And make a profit.

Worst case Tesla battery is $20k. Even then you can't buy an ICE nearly as nice for twice the price.

You seem to be confused...what I said was a new ICE (power plant only) is much cheaper than a $20k + battery...was not talking about the difference in the price of a new battery for an EV and a new ICE vehicle...!

 

[Grumpycat]

There you go again...who said anything about hydrogen (in the context of this discussion (obsoletion))???

You did. Post #4642 of this thread

You said, "...If you keep up with the latest tech news you'd know that hydrogen is not such a ridiculous bet any more"

FYI one thing that you've obviously not considered is advancement in actual battery technology (talk about a fool's errand)...a battery or other source of electric storage that would offer say 1K mile range would greatly reduce the need for so many charging stations...In this scenario...those with older EVs that can't be retrofitted will just be considered collateral damage...

You are under the mistaken belief that EVs depend on public charging stations. A large number of EV drivers rarely use public charging stations. IIRC Gale used a CHAdeMO recently for the first time since his wreck only to test the CHAdeMO function on the rebuilt car. I use a Supercharger once or twice per year.

You continue to suffer from The Gas Station Fallacy.

 

[/pine]

You did. You said, "...If you keep up with the latest tech news you'd know that hydrogen is not such a ridiculous bet any more"


You are under the mistaken belief that EVs depend on public charging stations. A large number of EV drivers rarely use public charging stations. IIRC Gale used a CHAdeMO recently for the first time since his wreck only to test the CHAdeMO function on the rebuilt car. I use a Supercharger once or twice per year.

You continue to suffer from The Gas Station Fallacy.

LoL...Too funny...YOU were the one that brought up "hydrogen" I was replying to your ridiculous statement...doh...!

FYI I am not under any mistaken belief...The only reason I mention public charging stations is the limited range of batteries makes them necessary regardless...even if for a limited percentage...BTW...a large majority of items in the news regarding EVs is all about CHARGING STATIONS...and not the kind that's in your garage...!

And the only thing I suffer from when it comes to reading about EVs is your own fallacies of the future of EVs powered by rechargeable batteries...dream on...!

 

[Grumpycat]

Wow Grumpycat, you need to learn more about becoming a media influencer. You're never going to get any tik-tok followers with those kind of videos. I was waiting for your EV to blow up or something, but nada, just a boring video of vehicles with electric cords going to them.

Actually, im curios. Is plugging your pickup in during the winter a usual thing?

As I mentioned in another reply, you missed the cat crossing between garage and the cars. The cat's motion triggered Ring.

The 2018 F-150 has 7500 miles. I find it prudent to keep a battery maintainer on it. Also, it is jealous of the Tesla.

 

[Grumpycat]

How?

The oil companies definitely do not pump more oil with the intention of lowering prices in the U.S. Their only motive is profit, and that means market manipulation through tight control over when and how much oil is pumped not just here, but world-wide.

Unless the government takes over private oil companies, they cannot force the oil companies to pump more oil. And they cannot force those oil companies to sell it only in the U.S., as it's a free global market.

So I ask, how are you and I going to convince the private oil companies to pump more oil in the U.S. and refine it into fuel and sell it to U.S. citizens for less than they could to other people around the world?

You have a ******* view of economics. That the size of the pie is fixed.

Just over 2 years ago the USA was energy independent. Was exporting more energy than importing. This was achieved by letting the oil companies cut each other's throats, as is right and proper in a free market. Not by, "manipulating markets." When supply is abundant the markets can not be manipulated by any other than the heavy hand of government.

Previously we had a situation were oil companies were allowed to produce more and sell it for less to undercut each other. The path to maximum profits was to sell more for less. Government has told oil companies they can no longer do business that way so now they are in the "sell less for more" mode. Now we have managed shortages for manipulating markets. Now the size of the pie is fixed by government.

 

[Grumpycat]

A question for you then. If gas (and diesel) prices are all due to supply/demand and corporate greed then how come during the ***** administration gasoline was less than $2/gallon?
So ***** is elected, gas more than doubled and it's all due to corporate greed, profit and supply/demand. A coincidence.
Oh...OK...thanks!

The current and future supply is being falsely limited. The Size Of The Pie is Fixed. The size of the pie can not grow.

Previously the supply was allowed to grow as much as the producers could. Producers were allowed to increase profits by lowering prices and increasing supply to "steal" market share from other producers.

It was "corporate greed" which gave us lower prices. Now we have high prices in attempt to not go bankrupt.