Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2

   / Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2 #5,171  
100% with Richard. just an expensive fad and nothing more. Very expensive.
I don't know if I'd go so far as to say it's a fad. I think eventually most households will have an EV but it will take time. I think most of us here are old enough to remember when microwave ovens first came out and started to get popular. Our neighbors down the road got one pretty early on but my folks probably didn't get one until 10 years later. Microwaves cook way faster than a conventional oven but there are some things they can't do that a conventional oven can and so most households have both. There are a lot of appliances trying to knock off the microwave, air fryers come to mind, but nothing has replaced them yet. Time will tell if EV's reach the saturation point of microwaves. Another technology might make them obsolete before they do. On the other hand, battery technology may advance so fast that nothing will touch them for years to come.
 
   / Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2 #5,172  
It seems to be more common in technological advances for the R&D for working out problems is the consumer......

Friend of mine is a mechanic at the local auto dealership. He attended a four hour training session concerning the new Jeep Grand Wagoneer. A tongue in cheek joke point made by the instructor was the favorite snack items to have in the customer waiting room for owners.
 
   / Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2 #5,173  
100% with Richard. just an expensive fad and nothing more. Very expensive.
Expensive. But ...

They're being marketed to an exclusive group, people who willing to pay that much for their next car. Whether its gas or EV.

And likely many of that expensive-car crowd are people who replace their car every 3 years. So eventual battery decline isn't on their minds at all. What we know will be eventual overall cost of ownership including a battery, isn't a concern to those customers.

People who buy new cars before the old one is worn out are probably the majority of new-car buyers. That's a whole different world than the bunch here who run the last $ of value out of a car. Me included, my most recent car cost me $16k new and is now nearly old enough to vote.
 
   / Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2 #5,174  
You can only talk about the benefits for a short term before it becomes rhetoric but every day there are new news stories about negative aspects...that the _aficionados_ seem to just ignore...

I'm just not going to be a guinea pig / lab monkey helping them develop a system that will be obsolete in a very short time...!

What would you say is the ratio of folks that post about a problem regarding their tractor on TBN vs those that post about just how great their particular model is? 99:1?

Just because a few had trouble charging in the cold due to some failure doesn’t mean all EVs don’t work in cold… and from being in CO mountains for the past week, I’d say there are plenty running around in the cold.

Typical sheeple getting wrapped up in MSM. Somebody live streams a broken charger and that is immediate proof that all chargers are broken and all EVs are stuck on the road.

I find it hilarious that the experts are always those with no first hand or limited experience. Extremely true for this thread. There are a few EV owners on this thread that post about their experiences, but they are ‘EV zealot idiots’… ok… projecting much?

Are their extreme viewpoints out there that are very short sighted? Yup, on every topic known to man. Politics, religion, tractor color, whiskey brand, etc… EVs are no different, some think they are made of unicorn blood and gods gift to transportation others are convinced they are the devil and sent by the the red man himself to take away your driving freedoms. And then there are the 99% that see them as neat tech, cool toy, needed a car and the ownership math penciled out just fine.

I didn’t want to be the guinea pig either. Same with most other vehicle manufacturers in the world, always growing pains. I gave Tesla a decade + before I tried one. Experience has been pretty refined. Perfect car? Nope. I’ve been quick to point out the shortcomings I’ve come across. Of course, I can easily point out the shortcomings of any vehicle I’ve owned. Lexus, Ram, Dodge, BMW, Isuzu, Nissan, VW, etc…
 
   / Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2 #5,175  
Will EV's be the next microwave?


Formerly found only in large industrial applications, microwave ovens increasingly became a standard fixture of residential kitchens in developed countries. By 1986, roughly 25% of households in the U.S. owned a microwave oven, up from only about 1% in 1971;[23] the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics reported that over 90% of American households owned a microwave oven in 1997.[23][24] In Australia, a 2008 market research study found that 95% of kitchens contained a microwave oven and that 83% of them were used daily.[25] In Canada, fewer than 5% of households had a microwave oven in 1979, but more than 88% of households owned one by 1998.[26] In France, 40% of households owned a microwave oven in 1994, but that number had increased to 65% by 2004.[27]

Adoption has been slower in less-developed countries, as households with disposable income concentrate on more important household appliances like refrigerators and ovens. In India, for example, only about 5% of households owned a microwave oven in 2013, well behind refrigerators at 31% ownership.[28] However, microwave ovens are gaining popularity. In Russia, for example, the number of households with a microwave oven grew from almost 24% in 2002 to almost 40% in 2008.[29] Almost twice as many households in South Africa owned microwave ovens in 2008 (38.7%) as in 2002 (19.8%).[29] Microwave oven ownership in Vietnam in 2008 was at 16% of households, versus 30% ownership of refrigerators; this rate was up significantly from 6.7% microwave oven ownership in 2002, with 14% ownership for refrigerators that year.[29]
 
   / Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2 #5,176  
What would you say is the ratio of folks that post about a problem regarding their tractor on TBN vs those that post about just how great their particular model is? 99:1?

Just because a few had trouble charging in the cold due to some failure doesn’t mean all EVs don’t work in cold… and from being in CO mountains for the past week, I’d say there are plenty running around in the cold.

Typical sheeple getting wrapped up in MSM. Somebody live streams a broken charger and that is immediate proof that all chargers are broken and all EVs are stuck on the road.

I find it hilarious that the experts are always those with no first hand or limited experience. Extremely true for this thread. There are a few EV owners on this thread that post about their experiences, but they are ‘EV zealot idiots’… ok… projecting much?

Are their extreme viewpoints out there that are very short sighted? Yup, on every topic known to man. Politics, religion, tractor color, whiskey brand, etc… EVs are no different, some think they are made of unicorn blood and gods gift to transportation others are convinced they are the devil and sent by the the red man himself to take away your driving freedoms. And then there are the 99% that see them as neat tech, cool toy, needed a car and the ownership math penciled out just fine.

I didn’t want to be the guinea pig either. Same with most other vehicle manufacturers in the world, always growing pains. I gave Tesla a decade + before I tried one. Experience has been pretty refined. Perfect car? Nope. I’ve been quick to point out the shortcomings I’ve come across. Of course, I can easily point out the shortcomings of any vehicle I’ve owned. Lexus, Ram, Dodge, BMW, Isuzu, Nissan, VW, etc…
FYI...other than my thoughts on alternative energy sources...the only comments I make in this thread are reactions to what someone else (likely an EV owner) has posted or from mostly mainstream news sources...
and FYI...according to not just news sources...it was way, way, way more than just a "few" charging issues...!

and one more thing...I think you need to look up the definition of "projecting"...if the shoe fits...!
 
   / Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2 #5,177  
I apologize... considering the fact that I am 100% pro EV I don't like being told that negative aspects (facts) about EVs are a fantasy of mine...nothing could be farther from the truth...but I guess some just don't like to hear the facts...!
Some people are very defensive on the subject, and automatically label you as a hater if you aren’t waving an EV flag. I was thinking about buying one almost 5 years ago and even had power run to my father’s old work shop on a separate meter. My hope was that that I could drive down, charge overnight and come home. Yet asking what I felt were valid questions, both here and elsewhere got me nothing but attitude. I was asking things such as how much do running things like wipers, defrosters, and headlights affect range. It’s just 200 miles from my driveway to my mother’s, which seemed to be maximum range at the time. How much does speed affect range? I usually travel between 70 & 80 most of the 200 miles.
 
   / Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2 #5,178  
Expensive. But ...

They're being marketed to an exclusive group, people who willing to pay that much for their next car. Whether its gas or EV.

And likely many of that expensive-car crowd are people who replace their car every 3 years. So eventual battery decline isn't on their minds at all. What we know will be eventual overall cost of ownership including a battery, isn't a concern to those customers.

People who buy new cars before the old one is worn out are probably the majority of new-car buyers. That's a whole different world than the bunch here who run the last $ of value out of a car. Me included, my most recent car cost me $16k new and is now nearly old enough to vote.
Good point, and it explains why most of what's available today is loaded with all sorts of tech-y gizmos that are only marginally useful and not always very intuitive. The early adopters eat that stuff up with a spoon, but I wonder how it will play with everyday buyers. I know I have very little use for most of that stuff.
Likewise, when I look to buy a truck, a 3 second 0-60 time is pretty low on my list. I'm looking for a practical utility vehicle that can stand up to some abuse, how it's powered is secondary at best.
 
   / Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2 #5,179  
Good point, and it explains why most of what's available today is loaded with all sorts of tech-y gizmos that are only marginally useful and not always very intuitive. The early adopters eat that stuff up with a spoon, but I wonder how it will play with everyday buyers. I know I have very little use for most of that stuff.
Likewise, when I look to buy a truck, a 3 second 0-60 time is pretty low on my list. I'm looking for a practical utility vehicle that can stand up to some abuse, how it's powered is secondary at best.
Most of the people I know who drive newer vehicles turn off many features such as “lane positioning”, every time they start the engine. Manufacturers are making money on features which most people don’t want.

Now if they would just let me turn off useless features like ABS and Traction Control…
 
   / Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2 #5,180  
FYI...other than my thoughts on alternative energy sources...the only comments I make in this thread are reactions to what someone else (likely an EV owner) has posted or from mostly mainstream news sources...
and FYI...according to not just news sources...it was way, way, way more than just a "few" charging issues...!

and one more thing...I think you need to look up the definition of "projecting"...if the shoe fits...!

A ‘few’ compared to the millions charging just fine every day.
 
 
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