Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2

[bnold]

Some people are very defensive on the subject, and automatically label you as a hater if you aren’t waving an EV flag. I was thinking about buying one almost 5 years ago and even had power run to my father’s old work shop on a separate meter. My hope was that that I could drive down, charge overnight and come home. Yet asking what I felt were valid questions, both here and elsewhere got me nothing but attitude. I was asking things such as how much do running things like wipers, defrosters, and headlights affect range. It’s just 200 miles from my driveway to my mother’s, which seemed to be maximum range at the time. How much does speed affect range? I usually travel between 70 & 80 most of the 200 miles.

Really only get defensive of ignorant comments from those without first hand experience spewing the latest clickbait.

I’m a supporter of many of the fuels gas, diesel, electric, 100LL, what else? All seem to serve there purpose for me.

Re: your questions that went unanswered. For my type of driving, mostly highway and longer commutes with some mixed in city the range on the Tesla is BS. Listed at 360miles.
That may be true for some 55mph flatland situation, but not my driving style.

My commute is probably 10% city, 10% some freeway traffic a portion of which is stop and go depending on hour, 60% 75-83mph large freeway, 15% 60mph small state hwy, 5% gravel road and neighborhood. Ask me tomorrow and my percentages will be slightly different. Majority highway - high speed however. Texas, relatively flat, 300-400’ elevation change max. Outside temperatures 15F - 110F. Cabin temp 68F. Driving style- get out of my way while I’m in the left lane.

Real range is in the 80-85% of rated for me. Somewhere around 300miles if I was to charge to 100% (never do, set at 90%, because I don’t need the range for my typical mission).

My average usage is in the 320 watts / mile range. Pretty easy math.



Car will give you an update as to how different things effect range, HVAC, battery conditioning, driving style, elevation, etc… unfortunately, my last run was a quick run to town and not a longer commute so the data isn’t really very good. I’ll try and get a shot after a typical commute trip and post.

There is some range impact on cold mornings, using an additional 2-5% battery over 110 miles say down into the 20s for temp. I believe that earlier model Tesla’s with resistive heat were more impacted, but these heat pumps seem pretty efficient.

Now this is also impacted by the fact that my car is preconditioned automatically before I leave in the morning. Battery, cabin, etc are up to temp. I’d expect a percent or 2 more usage in cold if it wasn’t preconditioned.

In the summer heat, I notice no range impact.

Lights, radio, other electronic gizmos in car, no noticeable impact, these loads are so insignificant compared to a 100kwh battery. The battery storage capacity is more than a typical house uses in a day. The power user is the driving.

200mi 1-way to your mothers would be nothing to worry about. BUT you are going to have to charge to get home. 15 minute stop at a supercharger. If you made this trip every day, I’d think that would be inconvenient and not a good fit. If it was once a week or less often, fine. Personal preference. In 40,000+ miles I’ve never been to a public charger. I have other vehicles for longer missions (also longer missions generally mean towing for me)

 

[bnold]

LoL...take the blinders off...like I said it was way more than a few and it continues in extreme cold...and when it's extremely hot the power companies discourage charging...

How many? I mean if the data is there, I’m really curious to know if it was widespread that cars were unable to charge due to some problem with the car or chargers themselves failing (not interested in power outages). Curious what the response will be to remedy if in fact it is a real issue possibly affecting millions of cars and not some insignificant percentage. In my mind it is some insignificant percentage turned hysteria by some clickbait, but if there is data to show otherwise, I can be swayed by data.


I mean quick search, looks like 600,000 to 800,000 cars run out of gas each year on US roadways according to AAA. Data… big numbers, but I still don’t find this is an ICE problem more than a people problem.

No doubt, some utilities ask users to curtail usage during peak times or when something is offline. This has been a common occurrence for as long as I can remember, many industries even have contracts to reduce or eliminate load upon request in exchange for a lower rate.

EV charging adds more load and are specifically mentioned in the news briefings. In the same breath the news anchor says the other things, turn the thermostat down, don’t run your generator in the house, don’t use your gas stove for heat, etc… same message it has been since well before EVs. Now they have tacked on EV charging.


No blinders here.

 

[Fuddyduddy1952]

Everyone has needs and wants. I've often wondered what would people drive if all roads were tunnels with branches up to each one's garage. So friends, family, neighbors couldn't see WHAT you drove? So no "Joneses", ego, impressing, etc.
For many years I've seen people drive Hummers with polished mags. How foolish is that!?! What purpose does it serve?
Many years ago before my wife and I drag raced we street raced. That was a real blast driving a sleeper, something that wasn't supposed to be fast blowing doors off something everyone "knew" was fast.
To us the push towards electric is pretty (nauseating...dare I say that?)...now wait!...I'm not against EV at all...it's the forcing of it. (Apolitical...100%). :
Step 1: make them 'desirable', i.e., showing I'm all for saving the planet, lowering pollution...OR...they're fast...OR...I'll save money in fuel cost/maintenance...OR...look what I have! The latest greatest toy with all the high tech gadgets. Jimmys on the cupcake.
Step 2: raise the price of fuel, regardless of the why or how of it.
Step 3: anything other than electric from chainsaws to cooking stoves is to be phased out and eliminated!
Step 4: anyone NOT on board with this is simply backward, old fashioned, non-progressive and unwilling to change. With mandates, taxes, penalties, etc. they'll HAVE to change. No choice.
Finally I have to think...what's the REAL reason or agenda? Are we to believe this is all to lower the Earth's temperature, lower CO2 in the atmosphere, lower pollution?
We're told that...but is it true?
I probably won't be here thirty years from now, but will it be 95% EVs, a completely upgraded electric grid? Towers, solar panels, wind turbines everywhere?

 

[/pine]

How many?

All of them that were exposed to extreme temps...the only one that even came close to it's advertised range in the cold is the Tesla Y...

Exactly what do you consider to be positives of owning an EV at the present time...???

 

[ovrszd]

If they do have EVs....do you think they are powered by rechargeable batteries...???

Dang it!!! Wish I'd said that....

 

[bnold]

All of them that were exposed to extreme temps...the only one that even came close to it's advertised range in the cold is the Tesla Y...

Exactly what do you consider to be positives of owning an EV at the present time...???

Possibly I’m confused. Are we talking failures? Or reduced range? If reduced range at extreme temps, I’m not arguing. That’s real. I’d expect 10% reduction in range down to 0 degrees. I don’t play any lower than that so can’t speak to deep negatives.


Many positives. $/mi driven is quite low, out accelerates most sports cars, especially in this price range, technology package is better fitted than any other vehicle I’ve been in, auto-pilot is pretty decent more of the time, reduced maintenance, not stopping at fuel stations, to name a few.

 

[/pine]

Possibly I’m confused. Are we talking failures? Or reduced range? If reduced range at extreme temps, I’m not arguing. That’s real. I’d expect 10% reduction in range down to 0 degrees. I don’t play any lower than that so can’t speak to deep negatives.


Many positives. $/mi driven is quite low, out accelerates most sports cars, especially in this price range, technology package is better fitted than any other vehicle I’ve been in, auto-pilot is pretty decent more of the time, reduced maintenance, not stopping at fuel stations, to name a few.

Actually most of what I've read is more like 30% for most EVs...and that is only if you can get a battery charged...which in most cases was no dice...

Factor in the cost of the vehicle and the $/mi goes to crap...LoL...
...Rabbit starts lead to premature tire failure and I just read that EVs require more expensive tires because of the additional weight...(that's a big negative)...
...the same tech packages can be had on most new ICE vehicles and using comforts like THE HEATER, heated seats, steering wheel warmer greatly reduce the charge/range...
...Exactly what is the difference between stopping at a gas station and stopping at a charging station other than the fact that with a charging station you are going to sit there waiting and waiting and waiting...??

 

[bnold]

Expensive. But ...

They're being marketed to an exclusive group, people who willing to pay that much for their next car. Whether its gas or EV.

And likely many of that expensive-car crowd are people who replace their car every 3 years. So eventual battery decline isn't on their minds at all. What we know will be eventual overall cost of ownership including a battery, isn't a concern to those customers.

People who buy new cars before the old one is worn out are probably the majority of new-car buyers. That's a whole different world than the bunch here who run the last $ of value out of a car. Me included, my most recent car cost me $16k new and is now nearly old enough to vote.

This is a good post in that it illustrates the different view points in buyers.

Folks that haven’t bought a new car in 10-20years are probably blown away by a $55k EV, wow that is a lot of money! Oh wait how much does a stripped down diesel pickup cost now?? Really how much? Or a BMW 3-series, or a Dodge Charger?

Back in my day that was the value of a house!!

But it isn’t anymore… this little graph from HUD showing average sales price over 500k for a house! Middle class must be moving up in the world.

I’ve purchased vehicles that were over 10-yes old and new, driven vehicle used and new to 250,000miles. I don’t plan on owning current EV past the pattern warranty of 120,000miles, will be my earliest trade or sale of a vehicle ever. Probably swap in for another until technology improves. Some research on the 100kwh packs leads me to believe 175k - 225k miles is where the battery is likely to have its first issue. Not terrible by any means considering it’s infancy. I’ll swap vehicles before I lose too much of the value. High mileage Teslas are still carrying a premium so far, I try and keep tabs on occasion.

I expect battery repair centers will become commonplace in the coming decades, very sporadic specialty type thing right now. But it does exist.

 

[Fixastuff]

"I used to and like drag/street racing" and also "I dislike evs because fast acceleration wears tires". Two strange viewpoints to hold at the same time

 

[MossRoad]

Most of the people I know who drive newer vehicles turn off many features such as “lane positioning”, every time they start the engine. Manufacturers are making money on features which most people don’t want.

Now if they would just let me turn off useless features like ABS and Traction Control…

I can understand why you'd want to turn off ABS, but things like traction control and stability control are fantastic.