Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2

   / Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2 #6,221  
So one less benefit of buying a (Tesla) EV...
Besides:

The comment section Sure took exception to the article...

This article (well, the study you linked to, and then simply repeated as gospel here) is really bad. I'm paying about $0.10/kwh, and I spend about $2.80 for 100 miles in our M3P (averaging 280 wH/mi) and $3 for 100 miles on our MYP (averaging 300 wH/mi). In-home charger cost was minimal, thanks to both Maryland and federal rebates, but it's not even a mandatory thing - a charging cable came with each car, and we can charge via normal outlet with no additional investment. Maryland has no "EV tax", so I don't know where these costs are being calculated. Also, as we have no oil costs (at $75 for a synthetic oil change every 5000 miles), that's another $1.50 saved per 100 miles, right? No brake pad replacements for about 200K miles, thanks to regen braking, so add that into the mix too. And fuel injector flushes, radiator flushes... transmission service... all of this should be included too, right?



The only scenario where EVs cost close to ICE is on long road trips, where the kwh charges start adding up. So yes, if someone is exclusively driving 500+ mile segments, then yeah they might have a cost issue. But if trips are under 200-250 miles, and you can plug in to a wall outlet at a destination, then none of that article's points add up. At. All.

  • @ .13/kwh) to fully charge my Bolt and I get about 260 miles per charge (230-240 in winter). At 30 mpg that would be 30 bucks (at 3.50/gallon for regular; right now prices are $4.25/gallon and I'm not considering premium). Less efficient car will cost more to charge, but there is no comparison. So take this "study" with a ton of salt, if you're reading it naively. While "mid-priced evehicles" may be less efficient than the Bolt, they aren't THAT less efficient.
    Reply


  • Anthony S
    1 day ago

    Even in the dead of January in Minnesota when EVs are far less efficient, paying full price for electricity at home, and driving my Mach E like I stole it, my electricity cost for 100 miles is under $5. In the summer its closer to $3.50. If I sign up for the EV metering program with my electric company and charge only at night that cost drops to $2.32 per $100 miles in the winter and $1.65 in the summer.
    On the other hand my wife's similar in size Cayenne SUV costs between $18 and $20 to go 100 miles. For those of you doing the math that is roughly 10 times the cost of
    • Anthony S
      1 day ago

      It just occurred to me that the Cayenne takes premium and I calculated it at regular gas prices so the ICE vehicle cost is even higher than that.
      Reply


    • Anthony S
      1 day ago

      I looked at the study summary...based on some rough estimates from the graphs they provide they are assuming a mid price ICE car gets 40mpg and electricity costs $2.50/kwh (vs. 5 or 12 cents depending on whether you've signed up for an EV charging program or not.) 🤣🤣
      Motorbiscuit, you are suckers for falling for this press release.






 
   / Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2 #6,222  
You can post all the math you want...The AEG published their report...you try to dispute their numbers using cherry picked data...
Personally I could not care less...rechargeable battery cars with limited ranges are just a flash in the pan (some being tested by lab monkeys) until a much more sophisticated source can be developed for the application.

Approach
Anderson Economic Group
calculates all four categories of costs for fueling EVs and ICE vehicles
across benchmarks representing real
-world U.S. driving conditions, including:
1.
The cost of underlying energy (gas, diesel, electric)
2.
State excise taxes charged for road maintenance
3.
The cost to operate a pump or charger
4.
The cost to drive to a fueling station (deadhead miles)
All use cases reflect 12,000 miles/year, with the cost of residential charging equipment amortized
over five years. Calculations are based on energy prices and taxes in the state of Michigan. Benchmarks
for ICE vehicle drivers assume the use of commercial gas stations. For EV drivers, we consider both
drivers who routinely charge at home and those who rely primarily on commercial chargers.


 
   / Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2 #6,223  
Every real man needs a NEMA 14-50 for his welder! Else surrender your man card!

Many farms have gasoline and/or diesel tanks, and their own dispensers. This "study" didn't factor in the cost of a home gas tank to fuel the ICE to accurately compare ICE to EV.

You act like the average driver in the US is like a typical TBN member...Funny...!
 
   / Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2 #6,224  
The comment section Sure took exception to the article...

This article (well, the study you linked to, and then simply repeated as gospel here) is really bad. I'm paying about $0.10/kwh, and I spend about $2.80 for 100 miles in our M3P (averaging 280 wH/mi) and $3 for 100 miles on our MYP (averaging 300 wH/mi). In-home charger cost was minimal, thanks to both Maryland and federal rebates, but it's not even a mandatory thing - a charging cable came with each car, and we can charge via normal outlet with no additional investment. Maryland has no "EV tax", so I don't know where these costs are being calculated. Also, as we have no oil costs (at $75 for a synthetic oil change every 5000 miles), that's another $1.50 saved per 100 miles, right? No brake pad replacements for about 200K miles, thanks to regen braking, so add that into the mix too. And fuel injector flushes, radiator flushes... transmission service... all of this should be included too, right?



The only scenario where EVs cost close to ICE is on long road trips, where the kwh charges start adding up. So yes, if someone is exclusively driving 500+ mile segments, then yeah they might have a cost issue. But if trips are under 200-250 miles, and you can plug in to a wall outlet at a destination, then none of that article's points add up. At. All.

  • @ .13/kwh) to fully charge my Bolt and I get about 260 miles per charge (230-240 in winter). At 30 mpg that would be 30 bucks (at 3.50/gallon for regular; right now prices are $4.25/gallon and I'm not considering premium). Less efficient car will cost more to charge, but there is no comparison. So take this "study" with a ton of salt, if you're reading it naively. While "mid-priced evehicles" may be less efficient than the Bolt, they aren't THAT less efficient.
    Reply


  • Anthony S
    1 day ago

    Even in the dead of January in Minnesota when EVs are far less efficient, paying full price for electricity at home, and driving my Mach E like I stole it, my electricity cost for 100 miles is under $5. In the summer its closer to $3.50. If I sign up for the EV metering program with my electric company and charge only at night that cost drops to $2.32 per $100 miles in the winter and $1.65 in the summer.
    On the other hand my wife's similar in size Cayenne SUV costs between $18 and $20 to go 100 miles. For those of you doing the math that is roughly 10 times the cost of
    • Anthony S
      1 day ago

      It just occurred to me that the Cayenne takes premium and I calculated it at regular gas prices so the ICE vehicle cost is even higher than that.
      Reply


    • Anthony S
      1 day ago

      I looked at the study summary...based on some rough estimates from the graphs they provide they are assuming a mid price ICE car gets 40mpg and electricity costs $2.50/kwh (vs. 5 or 12 cents depending on whether you've signed up for an EV charging program or not.) 🤣🤣
      Motorbiscuit, you are suckers for falling for this press release.

FYI the site I linked to MB only posted the AEG report...don't think they used cherry picked data...
And you know what they say about opinions...!!
 
   / Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2 #6,225  
FYI the site I linked to MB only posted the AEG report...don't think they used cherry picked data...
And you know what they say about opinions...!!
deleted

my Only 1st hand operational cost info is from my Nephews Volt.

All I can say is, It HAS saved him money over the last few years for the number of miles that car has rolled up.
 
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   / Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2 #6,226  
deleted

my Only 1st hand operational cost info is from my Nephews Volt.

All I can say is, It HAS saved him money over the last few years for the number of miles that car has rolled up.
Obviously there are going to be examples for both sides of the equation(s)...

The mere fact that it is what it is proves there is not that much of an advantage which proves the point there is just not that great of an advantage of driving an EV...
 
   / Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2 #6,227  
Obviously there are going to be examples for both sides of the equation(s)...

The mere fact that it is what it is proves there is not that much of an advantage which proves the point there is just not that great of an advantage of driving an EV...

Well over the next few years (hopefully decades) I will have my own data with the new Model Y. Actually considered just buying standard liability insurance... but after reading about Gales new dent, re thinking that.

Never carried or considered full coverage on any vehicle , just liability / uninsured driver - until now.
That is going to reduce savings all by itself.

I would not advise anyone to do what I did, especially if they have to take out a loan to buy a new electric and are young.
Much better places to spend or better yet invest toward a good retirement.
 
   / Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2 #6,228  
But you would have to drive a Kia.

Your comparison is not fair because you can not purchase gasoline for $3.50/gallon where electricity is $0.25/kWh.

Gale got a very nice Y for under $50k net. National average new car price is currently $47k. For less than an alternative ICE he was considering. Spin as hard as you wish pretending a bottom tier Kia is comparable to any Tesla.

You want to use Kia to represent ICE? Chevrolet Bolt EV, $25,600 before $7500 tax credit. 259 mile EPA range. 0.280 kWh/mile.

Bolt is no where near as nice as a Y, but neither is a Kia.
"Your comparison is not fair because you can not purchase gasoline for $3.50/gallon where electricity is $0.25/kWh."
It was a wag. Gas here $3.35/gal, elec. $0.23/kwh...close enough.
I'm happy for Gale & he made a good choice for HIM...not for US.
Everyone's situation, abilities, priorities, expectations, comfort level, needs & wants are different. You couldn't give us (wife & I) a brand new Bugatti, Lamborghini, 'Vette, Porsche, etc. That's us, & yes we're weird!
We did buy two new matching Mustangs and we like them...hardly ever drive them. A vacation we'll drive the Hyundai Accent.
Our favorite is driving a 50s or 60s car. No camera, not even seat belts, radio, power steering or power brakes.
Since the 100k/10yr drivetrain warranty runs out next year we'll replace it with most likely a Hyundai or Kia. Our #1 priority is cheap. Shame we couldn't find one stripped, but the least expensive new cars now have more junk on it than we need.
We're the exception not the rule, but what I said holds true. To me there's no good, better, best which most people disagree with.
 
   / Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2 #6,230  
My BIL is a hard core snow sledder, and also would fit in with some of the people here. When 4-stroke snowsleds first came out he was adamantly against them, and for several years had nothing good to say about them. Then he rode one...
Now all that he owns is 4-stroke Yamahas. They're quiet, dependable and powerful.

Some of the posters here talking down about EVs remind me of my BIL.
 
 
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