Big bore handguns

   / Big bore handguns #21  
Yeah, they used a pig in the same episode I'm talking about in addition to "Buster", the dummy with ballistics gel. Really cool episode, especially for a firm 2nd amendment supporter like myself.

They mentioned that pig flesh was a very close match to human flesh, about as close as you can get with bone density, flesh density/texture etc.

Makes sense, because the U.S. Army has been shooting pigs for years and then allowing combat medics to do triage and battlefield patch-up work on them. Check this out, really got PETA po'd!: YouTube - Army Shoots Live Pigs

Podunk
 
   / Big bore handguns #22  
I think the way they explained it was that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. That means that if it had enough force to knock over a man getting shot, it would also have had enough force to knock over the shooter when he shot it.

You ever see them test stuff on pig carcasses? Very interesting that the pig barely moves but the damage to it is huge.

While a particular round may or more likely, may not outright knock someone over from kinetic energy.. well.. i think that may be beside the point. If you shoot an intruder, for example, and the projectile does 2x to 3x lethal damage immediatly.. well.. does it really matter that you didn't knock him down.. but that he slumped over or colapsed?? Same end result.. atacker is on the ground immediately after shooting him.

A large bore, high energy weapon, with aprojectile that drops the bulk of that energy int the target vs overpenetrating and leaving the target sounds like the key here.

IE.. anything 357M and up ( .44m/.45acp/.454/.500/.50AE... ).. any of those with a hollow point or other specialty 'defense' type ammo, coupled with a good shot to a vital area.. and well.. except in movies.. dead men don't walk... Add to this that in a self defense situation are you really going to fire one shot and then wait to see if the attacker is still poking you with the knife? or are you gonna fire a quick double or tripple tap? An attacker with a hand weapon can close 10' in VERY LITTLE time... that means you as the defender don't have the luxory of firing once.. then evaluating the situation.. At least.. that was how my handgun instructor put it ( a LEO instructor )... " keep shooting till the threat subsides, then evaluate the situation".

2-3 well placed shots of a high energy weapon.. and even a drugged out brute is gonna be slumped over... once BP drops drastically the CPU turns off pretty quick..

I think we've probably all seen ( at least pictures) what some of the high power self defense rounds do to balistic geletan, or to sides of meat during test fires.. huge cavity wounds per round..

soundguy
 
   / Big bore handguns #23  
Soundguy's right.

Marine Cadre for the Navy's MP school (I went through it) taught us to 'double tap' the chest, then assess.

Podunk
 
   / Big bore handguns #24  
i love the muzzle flash in those big bores.. i remember a picture of a flash from a 454 in my Dillon reloading catalog.. probably an 8" barrel.. i can't imagine that from a 2.5" but i'd love to see that in a range! i like my 686pp w/ 6" barrel and wanted a 45LC, or 629 44... plz post a pic or video of that new gun flash!
 
   / Big bore handguns #26  
What is stopping power is a can of worms. :D

The problem with most tests is that they are on non living things. Shooting buster to see if he falls down does not mimic hydrostatic shock that occurs to a living creature. Dr. La Guaurde, I think I got his name right, wrote a book on bullet woods. At the turn of the century. The 20th century. He also was involved with picking cartridges for the US military in the same time frame. The new rounds were called "subcaliber" rounds because they were small compared to the .45,.50,65 caliber bullets used in the US Civil War.

There were a few things noticed in the Spanish American war regarding US soldiers hit with the Mauser subcaliber but high velocity bullets. The wounds were much cleaner since the hole was much smaller so there was less infection. Sometimes the exit wound was a problem but often the bullet went in and out. Very little dirt and clothing was brought into the would either which helped. Compared to wounds from the larger, heavier bullets the subcalibers where much easier to treat. Many soldiers were also paralyzed by the smaller but faster bullets but recovered after a time. The paralysis was due to the shock of the bullets on soft tissue that affect the CNS.

Shooting a dummy might prove that given round can't knock down a dummy. But it does not prove that the same round hitting a live person/animal won't cause enough trauma to drop the person.

I saw an interview about a US General who was a LT in Viet Nam. He got in a firefight with the NVA. He had a an M16. An NVA soldier popped up. He shot the soldier who fell. Another one popped up, was shot and he to fell. This happened two or three times. Obviously the M16 stopped those solders. They dropped. The US LT did not.

But the story ain't over....

Another soldier popped up, was shot and dropped. But he popped back up. :eek: He was mad. He was shot and dropped again. This might have have happened one more time before he stayed down.

So, same shooter, same weapon, same distances but different results. Shot placement may have been a factor but they ALL dropped and stayed down. Eventually. :D The US LT was not knocked down by the recoil of the M16 but the bullet did put down the NVA soldiers.

But the story ain't over.

The US LT became a general. The NVA soldier that was shot and kept getting up was also an LT. He survived being shot and eventually made general. Somehow the two generals realized that they were the the two LTs from decades before and met. :eek::D The video I saw had them talking about how the felt/perceived the firefight.

Strange story.

Regarding the power of different bullets I can't remember the formula any more but they are in loading manuals and I'm sure published on the Internet. The higher the velocity and bullet weight for a given cartridge the more "power" they have. How that "power" translates into stopping ability is ANOTHER argument/discussion. :D:D:D

Later,
Dan
 
   / Big bore handguns
  • Thread Starter
#27  
Well, I went with the .44 Alaskan for practicallity, picked it up yesterday. At twenty yards a five inch group is what I found to be as far as accuracy is concerned currently with Buffalo Bore and Double Tap factory loads. I will work up some loads over the weekend and post results. Thanks for all replies.
I was pleasantly surprised at how minor the recoil is on a 2.5" bbl.

Brad
 
   / Big bore handguns #28  
Not a big bore but my 10mm has quite a bit of stopping power and is easy to carry. I'd say 75% more than a 45 and equal to a 357. I have a Gloak and it really doesn't recoil bad possibly due to the double springs so you can stay on target. Ammo isn't cheap though. I also have a series 70 colt 45 commander that I enjoy shooting. After penetration tests into oak logs the 10mm had it beat by quite a bit.:)
 
   / Big bore handguns #29  
I like shooting the 44 mag in a Ruger Super Blackhawk, but so far that is far as I have gotten into the big bore handguns. I did pick up a Contender last week with 5 barrels. So far I have been playing with the 22 barrel while I get some rounds for the 45/410 barrel and the 357 Maximum. I guess we will see how they stack up against the Blackhawk in the fun dept.;)

BTW, anybody ever have any experience with the 256 Win mag? From what I read it is a real oddball.
 

Tractor & Equipment Auctions

https://www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2025/05/08/3077245/0/en/Nerve-Calm-Complaints-Investigated-2025-User-Reviews-Tested-Verified.html
https://www.globene...
2003 Big Tex 10PI 16ft. T/A Pipe Top Utility Trailer (A49461)
2003 Big Tex 10PI...
2016 Chevrolet Traverse 2LT SUV (A48082)
2016 Chevrolet...
Platform/Catwalk (A50860)
Platform/Catwalk...
2009 Mazda 5 Van (A48082)
2009 Mazda 5 Van...
2017 Ford F-550 Ext. Cab Valve Maintenance Truck (A50323)
2017 Ford F-550...
 
Top