BX22 LA210 Loader cylinder stuck

[idrobnjak]

A little background. I recently acquired a slightly leaky BX22 and assuming I had a 3 way control valve on the loader i ordered all new hoses coming out of the control valve from the dealer. When I went to install I realized hoses are all different and that is when i went back to schematic and realized i had a 4-way C/V. I know, dumb of me not to even click on that pic to compare earlier but here I am. After examining everything I decided to use these hoses to connect my 4-way valve onto the loader as i couldn't find a difference in the schematic below other than quick-disconnects on the 4-way one for installing something other than the loader. See below pics, no difference. And as a tip for anyone looking for new hoses for their LA210 loader, you should be able to use the ones from 3-way control valve as they should be cheaper by a good margin avoiding all the quick disconnects and extra hoses.

3-way C/V hoses:


4-way C/V hoses:


I got all the hoses hooked up and paid special attention to make sure I connected the right control valve outlet to the right color rigid hose on the loader as they were before. As I was doing this, some fluid leaked out from lines and the right cylinder on the boom of the loader compressed a bit (but not my left one) causing the loader to sit crooked so I couldn稚 put the loader back onto frame properly. I figured, that is fine and I will just hook up hydraulics, run it and compress both cylinders all the way and then pull them back out. So my left cylinder was out while my right one had compressed a bit, I figured from some fluid leaking out while changing out the hoses. I finally got all the hoses and quick disconnects back together and got the tractor close and connected hydraulics and ran the tractor for a little while to get the pump running properly and pressure in the system up and hopefully work out any air out of the system (hopefully that is how that works?). Then using the control lever I compressed both cylinders all the way in, motion to lower the loader arms. To my surprise when I pulled lever the other way (motion to raise the loader arms) to pull them both out, only my right cylinder is coming out (one that was originally compressed), while my left one just sits there in the closed position. I still can't get the loader onto the frame of the tractor because now the left one is all the way in and that is making the angle of the loader arms impossible to properly seat onto the frame.

As always, this site and you people are a godsend and any help would be appreciated.

Could I have still made a mistake and connected something incorrectly to the loader control valve? I doubt it, but possible. The bucket dump and up motions work fine and my right cylinder does what it is supposed to. Is there a separate hydraulic line to the left cylinder control? It doesn't make sense to me since I would think same line would control both cylinders at the same time - one line to pump up both cylinders and one to deflate both of them with fluid. So assuming I go back and check all the hose connections and everything is the way it was before, what would cause the cylinder to stay in the closed position now when it was working fine before hose replacement? Fluid not getting in on that side or is something stuck inside of it? Obviously a rookie at all this.

Here is schematic of loader rigid lines, sure looks like same lines feeding both cylinders (20 and 30), and I only replaced the soft rubber ones coming out of the control valve. The other lines (50 and 60) feed the bucket control cylinder. So if one cylinder is operating the way it should, leads me to think i did connect all lines properly and instead something went wrong with cylinder itself. Could there be air in the system not getting purged by the pump or something? ugh, so frustrating. i thought i was finally done fixing up and ready to work and now this...

 

[rbarker]

I have had this similar situation occur a couple of times with my BX's but it has always cleared up by cycling through the full range. One side will stay put while the other "catches up". If that's not happening for you then I don't know what to try next.

Sent from my iPad using TractorByNet

 

[idrobnjak]

Thanks for the input. I thought that should have happened. When i pulled the lever in the direction to close it, it closed all the way, and so did the right cylinder which was a little closed already. But the left cylinder just stays closed when i motion to open it. Right one behaves normal.

Anyone else? I am just stumped as to what my next step is as I can't really find anything about it online. Take the cylinder off and take it to hydraulics shop?

 

[J_J]

When the cyl retracted all the way, did the relief activate [squeal]?

Those cyl are supposed to be in parallel, and they should both work together, however, one cyl may offer less resistance and retract the other.

If you install a hyd gage, you can use to monitor and trouble shoot the hyd system.

To see if you have the hoses correct, loosen the fitting on the cyl base and see if fluid flows out both fittings.

One sign of a leaking seal is one cyl will not develop the power to move the bucket. Fluid will bypass.

One other problem you might see is the nut on the piston has come off. The cyl might extend but not retract.

If the hoses are correct and you can not develop relief pressure, take the cyl apart and fix the seals or install the nut on the rod shaft, using Loctite purple.

 

[idrobnjak]

When the cyl retracted all the way, did the relief activate [squeal]?

Yes, it does squeal.

Those cyl are supposed to be in parallel, and they should both work together, however, one cyl may offer less resistance and retract the other.

Looks like this is what is happening

Ok, so messed with it more and moved tractor further back so the loader ends can extend further (past the point where they would hook up onto the tractor) to see if any life in left cylinder. After the right one was half way out, then the left one finally started moving out a bit. but right one was way ahead of it. then when I do the lower boom motion (close the cylinder), the right one closes much faster than the left one. So both are getting fluid, but one is working much faster than the other. Should i just get them aligned and mount them onto tractor and run them this way? This theoretically should make them work together with tractor mounts being the other side of the square frame, even though the right one is doing most of the job. Is that wrong to do? Will it stress the cylinders or the metal frame holding it together because one side is always pushing/pulling more than the other? I feel like a little bit of progress is here. Is there a place that can re-do these cylinders so they both work like new at the same capacity? I looked up new ones - $800 / piece. ouch.

 

[swatter]

I have never rebuilt a cylinder but after being bored one night I found myself watching YouTube. It was a lot simpler than I thought it would be. I plan on doing this when the time comes. I also watched a few where people explained how to measure and replace after market cylinders for a fraction of the price Kubota would want.

 

[J_J]

Try this.

A hyd gage would be useful to trouble shoot the hyd system.

Remove both hoses from the good cyl, and cap them. Also remove the cyl to bucket pin so fluid is not pushed out of the cyl.

Leave the weak cyl connected.

Now, extent and retract the suspect cyl and hold at each end and see if the relief goes off.

If you had a hyd gage, you would see the difference between a good cyl and a leaking cyl.

 

[idrobnjak]

swatter - thanks for the tip. I looked it up on youtube, and you are right, doesn't look very difficult other than finding where to obtain new seals.

J_J - I think I am following you in your instructions. My only thing is what to use to cap the lines off the good cylinder while not in use. I don't think those plastic hose caps will hold once pressure in the system, and surely you are not telling me to use my thumbs to cap the ends :confused2:

Also, what will it mean if the relief doesn't go off - that it is a leaky cylinder inside and definitely needs rebuilt?

should've bought a new tractor... :duh:

 

[idrobnjak]

when you say pressure gauge - will one of these work?

 

[J_J]

Yes sir, that gage will work.

A hyd metal cap or plug for the hoses.

If the relief does not go off at the end of the stroke, that means that the seals are weak/worn, or the pump is not up to spec.