Can I do concrete projects myself?

[clovergamecock]

I have 2 projects that I am wanting to work on that involve concrete pouring. With the economy the way it is and the cost of labor is this something I can do? Here are my projects.

1. An added pad to my driveway. The area has a donward grade to it but not to steep.

2. A patio pad. This also has a grade but not to steep. I really don't want a deck so this is my other option.

Is there a step by step what to do for dummies process of how to and materials needed? Figuring amount of concrete? Depth to dig? building forms, tools etc etc.

I have a Kubota L2800 tractor with bucket and box blade. My dad has one of those tow behind electric motor driven mixers will that work or do I need to order a truck.

Thanks for the help guys!
Wade

 

[EddieWalker]

Concrete is pretty simple to work, but it's extremly physical. You have a time limit that is not forgiving and it takes allot of practice to be able to make it look nice. If you have never done this before, which seems to be the case, start out small on an area that you won't be upset if it comes out looking like crap.

The basics are very simple. Grade and compact the soil to the slope you want, or level it out. Depending on what you will do with it will dictate the thickness. Most pads are 3 1/2 inches thick, or the width of a 2x4. For thicker and stronger pads, 2x6's are used. For the driveway, it's a good idea to dig a footing around the egde that will be driven over. Just make it twice as deep and the width of a shovel is usually more then enough.

Use wooden stakes to hold your forms in positing and level the forms as you screw them to the stakes.

I prefer rebar to wire mesh. Some will tell you that wire is easier, faster and stronger. This is true, but it has to be centered in the pour, and that is almost impossible. What happens with wire is that it gets steped on while floating the concrete and ends up at the bottom of the pad. Most will try to pull it up while working the cement, but it's extremly dificult to do and in reality, rarely happens. Rebar is held in place with chairs that are easy to work around and will remain in the middle of the pad. Rebar is sized by either the thickness of the metal in 8th's or by a single number. The number is the first part of the thickness in 8ths, so 3/8's rebar is also called number 3 rebar. 4/8's rebar is number 4 and so on.

You can use either number 3 or number 4 for a pad. I'd use number 3 for the pad and number 4 for the perimiter. I'd double up on the permiter with rebar on top of each other with about three inches between them.

Depending on the size of the pad will decide if you can scree the cement with a board from the forms, or if you will need to put in depth stakes. If it's too big for screeding across the forms, it's too big a job for one guy.

I've done up to 3 yard pours by myself, but that's my max and it wears me out. One to two yards is more of my comfort zone. If it's much more, I hire it out and let a crew do it. It's cheaper to pay to have it done right then to screw it up and have to do it again.

To figure out how much concrete that you need, just do a google search for "concrete calculator" and punch in the demensions.

For your patio, you might consider cement pavers. They are very attractive, and easy to do by yourself. The physical labor is still there, but you can stop at any time and take a break.

Eddie

 

[ESierra62]

In reading the previous reply many fine points were made, however the basics were missed. If you don't already have the tools of the trade in possession you will need to rent them, or borrow them from friends who do have them. Meaning trowels, floats, edgers, tampers, etc. Although I have seen a square point shovel do an adequate finish on a job that wasn't anything more than a post, but for a driveway and a patio you definitely need to do a proper job. If you do the job in order pour, tamp, float, edge, finish, edge and final finish you will come out ok. I would imagine that since your dad already has a mixer he probably has the tools as well. The only thing he might not have is a "fresno or bull float" These go on a pole to finish on a large pour. As to the amount of concrete required for a job you need to figure out how many square feet you have, at 3.5" depth a yard of concrete will cover 93 square feet. Any one can order a truck of concrete or if you live in a large enough town they have a pull trailer that you can pick up a yard of mix on and take it to your site pour it out and clean and return the trailer. Mixing by hand is fine, and the mix is important. If you use sack crete for anything more than fence posts purchase a bag of regular portland cement and add a scoop to every mix, as they scrimp on the cement in the sack mixes. No offense to the sack crete guys, but you will get a better finish if you do this. Also if you want to color your cement finish you can add color to the mix as you are mixing, and get reds, black, green all sorts of colors other than just grey. And if you really want to go crazy you can stain your slab after it sets for a couple weeks.

As to the mesh thing I usually use rebar around the edges and a couple tie pieces to go across, however I do use mesh in across the mass as it is usually required by code, the way to keep it from going to the bottom is placing small pre-made concrete blocks under it every so often. They do add to the cost, or you can make them yourself or use rocks, but it does make it worth your wild to use them. If you are ordering your mix from a concrete company you can use fiber in the mix. This will replace the mesh, however it adds a degree of difficulty when finishing the slab. So you probably wouldnt want to use this on your first slab.

Good luck, and once you do one you will be pouring cement forever. Best advise I can give you is to find someone who knows how to do the job, and get them to help you or let you help them on a job so you can see how to do it, and go from there. The dry time depends on the weather, hot dries out fast, cool dries slow, rain try again another day. If it is going to rain after the slab is down cover it after it has set hard other wise you will loose the finish. There are several books on working concrete check them out.

M

 

[Inspector507]

I tried a few small pours myself but anything I wanted to look nice and wanted it right, I just hired it out. Anyway here is a simple concrete calculator to let you know how much you need. You'd be surprised at how many bags it takes in a mixer for a good sized slab.

 

[Wendi]

You're are getting great advice! Yes, a partner is a must (and a couple of wheel barrels really help). For small projects in hot dry weather we have a routine you may find helpful: One person stays at the mixer and the material pile - shoveling the sand, cement and gravel into the mixer, adds the water and dumps the concrete into the wheel barrel while the other person picks up the wheel barrel and dumps the mix into the form and screeds that bit of concrete and then goes back for more concrete from the mixer. We always have several sheets of black plastic on hand to keep the work covered as we go. We can usually "pour" and finish a 10 x 10 slab in a morning. Divide the work up into smaller workable sections with expansion joints or tiles to grout later. It's tempting to make the concrete soupy and easier to pour but concrete is stronger the drier it is mixed. Keep the slab from drying out as it cures.

 

[ESierra62]

skip the wheel burrows. If you can get your tractor to the spot then use the bucket on your front end loader, much easier.

 

[CurlyDave]

I have done a fair amount of concrete for an amateur. Not near as much as Eddie, but more than any other homeowner I know.

You can do much of it yourself. There are musts.

1. Good preparation. This part is conceptually easy and you can take as long as you want. Do this part yourself.

2. Hire a professional finisher to put the finish on it. He will have the experience, all the tools, and will do a final check on your preparation the day before the concrete truck arrives.

When he comes out to look at the job he will also tell you how many laborers you will need the day of the pour. Depending on your location and how hungry the finisher is, the price should be ~ $200 per day, maybe a little more.

For that he will advise you on the forms you already have prepared, check their level, add grade stakes to keep large areas flat & level, supervise the pour (he will know the truck driver), and supervise the labor you need. If you are in good shape you can count yourself as one laborer. The finisher will know a crew you can use for the actual pour. They will be much less expensive, primarily because their work will be quick -- one or two hours. A very good way to tell if you have hired a good finisher is to call the concrete company who will be sending the truck and ask if they know him. If they don't know him, hire someone else.

The finisher needs to stay all day to get the finish right.

If you need more than about 1/2 cubic yard you will be much better off to get it in a truck.

I agree with Eddie about using rebar instead of mesh. The rebar is stronger, and much easier to get in the right place in the concrete. Always use doobies (pronounced dough-bees). A doobie is a small cube of concrete with a piece of tie wire in one face. It is used to space the rebar off the ground.

99% of concrete finishers will say you don't need them, because they pull the rebar up into the center of the pad while they are finishing it. While they do pull it up, they always step on it afterward and push it back down. I have never seen a concrete slab with the bar in the right place where doobies weren't used. I have examined the re-bar in dozens of slabs, sometimes by demolition of the slab, but more often by finding a piece of rebar (studfinder works) and drilling out a 3" core over the rebar. There are going to be guys in rubber boots walking all over your wet slab, sinking in up to the full depth of the concrete during the pouring. They can't see the rebar.

While your FEL bucket is far superior to wheelbarrows or hand bucketing concrete, the best solution of all is to lay out your slab so the concrete truck can pull up to the work site and place the concrete with its chute.

I find that a concrete vibrator, usually called a stinger, makes the job come out much better. You can tap on the forms all you want, but a stinger gets them filled out perfectly every time. This one is adequate for anything an amateur will do. Harbor Freight Tools - Quality Tools at the Lowest Prices There is another one at HF which is also 3/4 hp and $5 less. I have that one and it has been "good enough" for me, but if I had my druthers I would spend the extra $5.

 

[ray66v]

Being Italian, I have been involved in a fair amount of concrete work.
Concrete work is like everything else, if it all goes as planned, and nothing goes wrong, it is not particularity difficult. However; I would urge you to find some one with some experience to help you, with the preparation, and to be there, in case, it's not your day.

It sounds like one, or both projects, can be done with paving bricks. On top of the fact that they are much more decorative, they are much more forgiving. They can also be done solo. And, if you screw up, you can pick them up, and relay them. A lot of the places that sell them, have seminars on how to lay them. They will show you everything you need to know.

 

[Lunk]

About 6 years ago I had a 30 x 45 pole shed built for use as a shop / 3 car garage. I wanted a 4" concrete floor, and hired a local guy who does work on the side (after normal work hours or on the weekend).

He showed up after the "barn" was built, leveled the pour area, and placed all necessary forms / mesh / doobies, ect over the course of a couple evenings. On the following Saturday he showed up with his 2 teenage kids and finished the job by noon. He had vibrators, all the floats and finish tools, including a gas powered power trowel. All tools were from the company he worked for (with their permission).

My cost - $1.50 per sq ft / $2025.00 cash.

Not having to screw with it myself - Priceless.

I don't know what the current rate would be, but do know that the construction business ain't "all that" at the moment. It may pay to check out a local contractor, as some of them may do cheap work just to keep their crews busy.

My .02

 

[have_blue]

What Eddie said about the work being physical. Only tackle concrete work if you are in good physical shape. People tend to underestimate it. You get started just fine, but you will tire. As as the concrete threatens to set up, you get in a hurry, making things much worse. It's very easy to run out of wind at the most critical time.


Me and a couple of friends poured and finished a 20x30' pad, and it just about wore us out. But it came out fine. Get help even on a real small job.