Cattail Killer, or how to clean up around the pond?

[dave1949]

Forrester2,

I guess it comes down to one's preferences or philosophy. Being able to create a pond which required no chemicals or mechanical intervention would be something to be very proud of IMO. It would demonstrate a fairly complete understanding of the total environment around the pond area, with maybe some luck thrown in.

If it becomes apparent that isn't working out, I would look for source causes and try to correct or reduce them. If I couldn't improve things that way, I would try mechanical means. If that fails, I would probably re-examine the whole situation. As 20-20 said, we should be playing by Mother Nature's rules. If I really was forced into a chemical solution, I would use the least potentially harmful chemicals I could find. I would be mindful that it is impossible to to just affect the target plants. There will be collateral effects on other organisms.

Glysophate is not a harmless, and totally benign chemical:
Glyphosate Factsheet (part 1 of 2) Caroline Cox / Journal of Pesticide Reform v.108, n.3 Fall98 rev.Oct00

It's no doubt far from the worst chemical one could choose to use, but I am not certain the long term effects of many manufactured chemicals are completely understood. I am also sure their maker's don't want a complete understanding of long term effects. Also, I really question the wisdom of applying tens of millions of pounds of a product annually that contains a 'trade secret ingredient'. That doesn't really seem smart to me.

I think we will have to agree to disagree.

I wish you and yours a very Merry Christmas Season, and hope your New Year brings prosperity.
Dave.

 

[brin]

Forrester2,

I guess it comes down to one's preferences or philosophy. Being able to create a pond which required no chemicals or mechanical intervention would be something to be very proud of IMO. It would demonstrate a fairly complete understanding of the total environment around the pond area, with maybe some luck thrown in.

If it becomes apparent that isn't working out, I would look for source causes and try to correct or reduce them. If I couldn't improve things that way, I would try mechanical means. If that fails, I would probably re-examine the whole situation. As 20-20 said, we should be playing by Mother Nature's rules. If I really was forced into a chemical solution, I would use the least potentially harmful chemicals I could find. I would be mindful that it is impossible to to just affect the target plants. There will be collateral effects on other organisms.

Glysophate is not a harmless, and totally benign chemical:
Glyphosate Factsheet (part 1 of 2) Caroline Cox / Journal of Pesticide Reform v.108, n.3 Fall98 rev.Oct00

It's no doubt far from the worst chemical one could choose to use, but I am not certain the long term effects of many manufactured chemicals are completely understood. I am also sure their maker's don't want a complete understanding of long term effects. Also, I really question the wisdom of applying tens of millions of pounds of a product annually that contains a 'trade secret ingredient'. That doesn't really seem smart to me.

I think we will have to agree to disagree.

I wish you and yours a very Merry Christmas Season, and hope your New Year brings prosperity.
Dave.

Dave , I agree with all you wrote...so I solve my weed problems around the pond with the homemade formula and now I find that the wet weather creek just behind my pond is now damned by Beavers with all the rain we have been getting and did a search here and find that not only do they chew down trees but now may burrow into my dam..this weekend I will be walking the wet weather creek and dam around the pond to see what I am now up against..always something I guess..Merry Christmas to you and yours as well.

 

[dave1949]

Dave , I agree with all you wrote...so I solve my weed problems around the pond with the homemade formula and now I find that the wet weather creek just behind my pond is now damned by Beavers with all the rain we have been getting and did a search here and find that not only do they chew down trees but now may burrow into my dam..this weekend I will be walking the wet weather creek and dam around the pond to see what I am now up against..always something I guess..Merry Christmas to you and yours as well.

Oh No - Beavers Sounds worthy of a new thread Brin.

The beavers deserted my beaver bog about 4 years ago. They were down to trying to eat 12" beech trees. Aspen/poplar and birch are their preferred species around here. They cleared all those out and moved on to better pickings. So now, our little stream runs all year. When the beavers kept their dams in repair, it was a seasonal stream below the dams. They had about three dams in a step-down terrace. Quite the engineers.

We lost a lot of dragonfly breeding habitat as the beaver bog dried up. Dragonflies are voracious mosquito eaters for about 3-4 weeks in late summer. They will clear mosquitos out of a large area until the population has time to rebuild. Wish the adult dragonflies had a longer life span.

I think trapping beavers is about the most effective way from what I have read. Shooting is possible if that's practical. Don't know what your nuisance beaver rules are.
Dave.

 

[relaqbr]

Dave , I agree with all you wrote...so I solve my weed problems around the pond with the homemade formula

Excellent to you both. I am a microbiologist/geneticist and have a small company that specializes in non-chemical pond and water feature maintenance in SoCal. It truly amazes me at what chemicals people will spray around. You can go down to the nearest pet/pond store and buy known carcinogens and mutagens to dump in outside sources of water. Chemicals that if a fish has even been exposed to for only seconds that fish cannot enter the human food chain. The previous pickle analogy is more realistic than many uuuhhh people believe as many birds and animals are drinking the pond water -- including the owner's own dogs and cats and when the dog, cat, or the owners own kids get sick they never believe -- refuse to believe -- that it was actually what they dumped or sprayed around that did it. It is always "that chemical company plant down the road." But many people with very little knowledge really want that instant gratification that comes with dumping in chemicals and more chemicals. Ahhhh I babel. Congrats again to you both.

And a further comment so that I do not hijack this thread. Be careful with salt in a closed system. How about a large sheet of black plastic for a couple of months in the summer. Do a section at a time. But truly mechanical is even better. Why not hire some kid who needs money to cut and pile.

Bob

 

[dave1949]

And a further comment so that I do not hijack this thread. Be careful with salt in a closed system. How about a large sheet of black plastic for a couple of months in the summer. Do a section at a time. But truly mechanical is even better. Why not hire some kid who needs money to cut and pile.

Bob

Bob, Thanks for the input. I am liking the black plastic idea. That would have to stunt and weaken any sun-loving plant like cattails, not to mention the heat damage it will cause on a clear day. With the right timing, it could be pretty effective I think.

Glad you joined the site. Lots of things get discussed here while waiting for our tractors to break down.
Dave.

 

[rambler]

Are you talking about regular Round up or is there some type of aquatic version?

I have some cat tails that I'd like to get rid of but have always been hesitant to use chemicals.

This is a long thread, I didn't read it all.

There is a water version, the regular Roundup or generics are _not_ allowed for water application. The glysophate isn't a problem, but the soaps used to spread it on leaf surfaces stays in the water & harms anphibians.

So, I believe 'Rodeo' is one of the labled versions for water type uses like this. Rodeo® herbicide

--->Paul

 

[DKXJ]

I have a 5 acre pond and have spent 6 years fighting weeds and cattails. I spent most of the time pulling the cattails, but it is marginally effective. Yes, the whole family has gone out and literally spent hours pulling the roots. The problem is, unless you dig the area up, you wont get them all and they come back almost as strong the next year.

I finally broke down and bought the 100 dollar a gallon Rodeo. I was hesitant over the years to get it because its so expensive. However... that stuff is like miracle cure for cattails. It kills the roots and every root touching it.

I got the pre-mixed stuff that has the side kick already in it. The side-kick dissolves the wax coating on the cattail so that the actual killing agent can penatrate the plant.

I have tried Round up. Its worthless. Sure, you can dump a gallon on 2 cattails and kill them, but they come back. Rodeo is definitely the only thing I have had 100% success with.

As for the rest of the weeds, I gave up using chemicals other than Aquashade. Its pretty effective and works by shading your pond. I tried copper sulphate. NEVER... I repeat, NEVER use that stuff. Kills frogs, snails, bugs... basically everything that naturally kills the weeds. That was a lesson I wish I didnt have to learn the hard way.

Definitely do your homework. Once you start dumping chemicals in your pond, whether its store bought or homemade, it will take years to fix any un-intended side effects. I highly suggest you assume all our advice is bad advice and test anything you want on a really small area. See if it works. See if anything bad comes of it. Then go from there. I did the same thing you did and asked on the internet how to control pond weeds, turned out most of it was bad advice and I wished I would of tested some of the suggestions in small areas first.

 

[20 20]

Dave1949; I like your thinking on dragonflys. I love having them around, watch them kill nasty bugs all the time. I also have bat houses, but because of a new disease they have been fading

 

[Redneck in training]

Dave1949; I like your thinking on dragonflys. I love having them around, watch them kill nasty bugs all the time. I also have bat houses, but because of a new disease they have been fading

We also have a pond infested with cattails but I decided to live with them.
I also installed bat house near the pond. I see bats flying around but the bat house is not occupied. I used DNR plans and placement direction. What is the secret?

 

[relaqbr]

Dave1949; I like your thinking on dragonflys. I love having them around, watch them kill nasty bugs all the time. I also have bat houses, but because of a new disease they have been fading

Hagenius brevistylus male Specimen #381 top view- Digital Dragonfly Museum
Erythemis collocata adult female Specimen #581 top view - Digital Dragonfly Museum
main site
Digital Dragonfly Museum
Yours too. I am saddened by the new bat disease. There will never be another DDT as the chemical companies have too many lawyers. But biocides (roundup, algaecides, BTtoxin, ozone , and other chemical plant and algae poisons) feed back into the food chain and many times suppress the immune systems of vertebrates that feed on the primary herbavores. ie Bats eating mosquitoes (what do they think mosquito larvae eat?). But anytime there is a problem it is always a "new disease" Wonder how the bees are doing . Gotta stop reading this thread.

Bob