Caught an Intruder

  
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MasseyWV

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Tractor by net=paranoia 101. Maybe it's one of the people on this site who walked on the property. They will know exactly what you are planning to do to catch them. I think I hear the twilight zone music. :eek:

I considered that possibility before creating this thread and actually hope they are a member of TBN because they'll know that I'm not playing games and take home security VERY seriously.

As for my exact plan of action, that will never be posted. Sure, they'll know that I'm planning to install cameras and motion detectors, but they won't know where they're installed... and yes, I do have plans that I won't post about. Oh, and they'll also know that I'm armed and plan to buy additional guns which should tell them that I'll use deadly force if necessary.

So am I worried? Not in the slightest. This is my home and I will protect it at all costs.
 

aczlan

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Thoughts on NVR:
-I like the idea of a network based storage. It’s a centralized location to put everything and I imagine you can probably get systems that have raided drives for extra protection.
Possible limitation (just off the top of my head).
-Looks like you will probably need a viewing monitor or machine to attach to the NVR.
-It looks like the NVR has to be attached to an Ethernet cable so limited deployment options.
Just throwing another idea out there…
Instead of NVR or DVR. Get a cheapo laptop to act as the monitoring station (same price range as an NVR of DVR). If you want additional storage you could either get a cheapo USB drive or NAS and use that to store the pictures\video if the laptop’s HD wasn’t large enough to store all you want.
With a laptop you also get a mobile “command center” you can have that bad boy on wifi with the security screen up and move it from room to room. Plug in battery when needed.
Example: You’re out in the shop (assuming you have wifi out there) you can take it with you to monitor the cameras from there. You get tired and go in for the day. (It’s dark now) you go inside and decide you are going to hang around in your living room and do some reading. You hook the laptop up to your TV (assuming the laptop is circa 2005 or better and the TV is about the same) and you have the cameras up on the big screen while you’re reading. Now you’re done reading and want to turn it. You take the laptop to your bedroom, plug it in for the night and turn the brightness down. Now you have the alarm system with you. If something triggers you can view the screen right away.
The NVR is in a fixed location, but you cannot view the video on it, it does ALL of its work over the network.
You can (in the systems I have seen) view the video from any computer on the network. As such, you could put your NVR in your "Safe room" and carry a laptop about which talks to the NVR via the wireless network.

Aaron Z
 

riptides

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Tractor by net=paranoia 101. Maybe it's one of the people on this site who walked on the property. They will know exactly what you are planning to do to catch them. I think I hear the twilight zone music. :eek:

Maybe. Ever been a victim of a crime against you, a loved one, or your home? I'd say by the beginning of your post, probably not.
 

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I hate when that s*** happens.

Sometime back we had someone open a window near a flat screen TV. I'm sure they were going to slide it out the window but were scared off when we came in from the closed garage where we were having a smoke. Now we shoot targets on the property on a weekly basis. The sound travels and my guess is acts as a warning of sorts.

I also added a trip wire at the edge of the woods-line that will fire off a blank 12-gauge shell. That should make them sh** their shorts if they decide to come back.

See trip wire here
 

texasjohn

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My friends, we have a problem.

Seems that y'all expect a shady character bent on mischief thinks logically like YOU do...and has same motivations and fears...

NOPE, don't think so. When someone enters the realm of illegal dealings, they are driven by fundamentally different motivations, fears, actions than we law abiding folks are. They are willing to take risks and actions we are not willing to engage in for various moral, legal, societal or religious reasons.

As a prior poster indicated, capacity for response to safety issues is degraded because we have consistently reduced funding for various social services, including Law Enforcement and Fire fighting. Net is, we have to pay out of our own pocket to develop our shields for personal/family protections and property preservation.

Thus, inevitably, as personal safety, perceived or real, decreases, the only response is to either do nothing and live with the risks, or spend more money (instead of taxes) on weapons, locks, safe rooms, warning systems, property identification, perimeter barriers.

Having visited numerous foreign countries, this is exactly what the well to do create there....live within fortresses with armed hired guards 24/7.

Many steps along the road to that end, but that's the ultimate end point.
 

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I hate when that s*** happens.

Sometime back we had someone open a window near a flat screen TV. I'm sure they were going to slide it out the window but were scared off when we came in from the closed garage where we were having a smoke. Now we shoot targets on the property on a weekly basis. The sound travels and my guess is acts as a warning of sorts.

I also added a trip wire at the edge of the woods-line that will fire off a blank 12-gauge shell. That should make them sh** their shorts if they decide to come back.

See trip wire
Haven't seen you on TBN for a good while.
Good to hear from you !
 

Jstpssng

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Rather, I should say that I almost caught him.

To make a long story short, I had just walked over to my garage to work on my tractor when my wife called for me in a somewhat urgent way. Oddly enough, she wouldn't simply tell me what she wanted, but opted to run over to the garage to tell me instead.

As it turns out, she had been standing on the back deck of our home when she heard someone cough but she couldn't see anyone, at least not until she heard a branch snap under the weight of someone's foot which immediately drew her eyes to a man wearing a black shirt standing at the edge of our property. Knowing he had been seen, he immediately made a hasty retreat.

After learning what was going on, I ran to the house to get my pistol (for my protection) and went looking for him or some clue to where he may have went but saw nothing. I also called the police (more than 3 hours ago), but they have yet to show up. How's that for protection?

Our property is very private and it cannot be seen from the road due to a wooded area between us and a large field adjacent to our property. I'm certain the guy had ran off towards the field but can only speculate as to which direction he went after that.

The guy could have been standing there for a long time and I can only speculate what he was up to, but given the location where he was seen and it's view of our home and my garage, he had to have been either perving or casing our home for theft, probably the latter. That, and I strongly believe whoever it was had to have known the area very well, probably being a local.

Given our secluded location, we always knew that there was the possibility of something like this happening, and now that it has, I want to take measures to protect the perimeter of our property and perhaps even catch whoever it was if they are stupid enough to come back. Several possibilities come to mind, but suggestions are welcome.

Is it against the law to stand on the edge of someone's property? Creepy yes, illegal, probably not, at least as far as your rights are concerned. There is that to consider in whatever actions you would plan.

They weren't merely on the edge of my property, they were on my property which is clearly marked. In other words, they were treaspassing.

How far from your house was the guy on the "edge of the property"?

I tried tp reply to.this last night when there were only a few replies; but found that I didn't know what to say. A day l later all I can add is that " I'm Flabbergasted at the number of suggestions of guns and hi tech surveilience cameras in response to a brief sighting of someone who may have been lost or even just standing on the edge of his own property thinking about coming over and saying hello. There is simply no real reason to suspect nefarious activity based on the information given. (Although I will confess that after reading 11 pages of this thread I went out and took the keys of the ignition of my company truck.)
 

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....Having visited numerous foreign countries, this is exactly what the well to do create there....live within fortresses with armed hired guards 24/7....

Having lived in the local economy of middle east countries, while they had their issues, crime was not something I was concerned about.

Their punishments seemed to deter even the most petty of crimes. One has to wonder, why is that?
 

EarPlug

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Call VideoSurveillance.com When I was shopping for an IP camera system for the office I looked at many web sites. Found this one and decided to give them a call. They were very patient and answered all my questions with no pressure. I did buy from them and happy I did.

Be aware that a quality camera does not come cheap. But now I can even view the office from my smartphone.

Jack
 
  
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MasseyWV

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I tried tp reply to.this last night when there were only a few replies; but found that I didn't know what to say. A day l later all I can add is that " I'm Flabbergasted at the number of suggestions of guns and hi tech surveilience cameras in response to a brief sighting of someone who may have been lost or even just standing on the edge of his own property thinking about coming over and saying hello. There is simply no real reason to suspect nefarious activity based on the information given. (Although I will confess that after reading 11 pages of this thread I went out and took the keys of the ignition of my company truck.)

You would have to see the area and know the entire circumstances of the situation to understand why I reacted to the intruder the way I did. I am not given to panic, nor prone to irrational thinking, and don't feel the need to justify my reaction to anyone. However, I will say this...

If the intruder was just someone who was "lost" or was simply the property owner "just standing" on the edge of his own property, then why did he flee immediately upon being sighted? Besides, he was not standing on his property, he was standing on my property. Not to mention the fact that he was not merely standing, he was hiding.

Lastly, there is much information I have not disclosed about this situation. As mentioned previously, this is a public forum and for all I know the intruder may very well be reading everything I'm saying.
 

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Actually I do have dogs, but oddly enough they didn't make a sound, probably because they were as unaware of the intruder as I was, or at least that's my theory anyway.

Sounds like you need some new replacement dogs.
 

Jstpssng

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You would have to see the area and know the entire circumstances of the situation to understand why I reacted to the intruder the way I did. I am not given to panic, nor prone to irrational thinking, and don't feel the need to justify my reaction to anyone. However, I will say this...

If the intruder was just someone who was "lost" or was simply the property owner "just standing" on the edge of his own property, then why did he flee immediately upon being sighted? Besides, he was not standing on his property, he was standing on my property. Not to mention the fact that he was not merely standing, he was hiding.

Lastly, there is much information I have not disclosed about this situation. As mentioned previously, this is a public forum and for all I know the intruder may very well...


I understand your reticience for full disclosure. (And in truth, anticipated your response) Yet given the information we had, I found most of the suggestions rather paranoic.
 
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JD435Bill

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Sounds like you need some new replacement dogs.

Probably a very different case, but it reminds me of my uncle's big 'ol dog. He was so hyper and violent that he had to keep him penned up. Anytime I walked by him, he would bark his head off. You would think that he would get to know me after a while, but no, he would still bark his head off anytime I got near him. His pen was right next to the garage. One day I heard that someone went into the garage and stole my cousin's bike. All of a sudden, it hit me. ....how about the dog!! How did anyone steal a bike with that dog right there!! Evidently he slept through the whole thing....
 

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JD435Bill said:
Probably a very different case, but it reminds me of my uncle's big 'ol dog. He was so hyper and violent that he had to keep him penned up. Anytime I walked by him, he would bark his head off. You would think that he would get to know me after a while, but no, he would still bark his head off anytime I got near him. His pen was right next to the garage. One day I heard that someone went into the garage and stole my cousin's bike. All of a sudden, it hit me. ....how about the dog!! How did anyone steal a bike with that dog right there!! Evidently he slept through the whole thing....

That's an easy one Bill. The dog was exhausted from barking at you.
 

joshuabardwell

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Seems that y'all expect a shady character bent on mischief thinks logically like YOU do...and has same motivations and fears... NOPE, don't think so.

Once upon a time, a friend of mine was moving, and had most of his stuff in his car. A bunch of his original artwork was stolen from the car, which confused me, because right next to it was some electronic stuff--a TV, an Xbox, so forth. The art was wonderful, but I doubt it would fetch much at a pawn shop. The electronics seemed to me to be the obvious choice, and I was confused.

I told this story to a person once, and he sagely explained, "What you have to understand is, most criminals are drunk." Kind of put everything into perspective for me.
 

MotorSeven

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I think your reaction to this is appropriate, as is your plan to make your property more secure, which in turn will build back your confidence and peace of mind. This is not "over-reacting", this is "taking necessary precautions"..there is a difference. I would not want to throw the dice on that guy being harmless. I spent a entire career being educated in the depths of human depravity and I learned that it's a bottomless pit. I will never assume harmless intent of anyone stalking my family or home....ever.

As far as your dogs go, he was most likely downwind and out of a direct line of sight. Dogs have a fantastic nose and eyes that pick up even slight movement first before outlines or shape. If they don't step into the cone of scent or have the wind take it to them, they can't smell anyone. I would say that if the guy returns next time he won't be so lucky and get "missed" by them.
 

riptides

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Probably a very different case, but it reminds me of my uncle's big 'ol dog. He was so hyper and violent that he had to keep him penned up. Anytime I walked by him, he would bark his head off. You would think that he would get to know me after a while, but no, he would still bark his head off anytime I got near him. His pen was right next to the garage. One day I heard that someone went into the garage and stole my cousin's bike. All of a sudden, it hit me. ....how about the dog!! How did anyone steal a bike with that dog right there!! Evidently he slept through the whole thing....

Reminds me of the Allstate commercial, where the bad guys give the "dog", the Allstate Mr. Mayhem, a bone and he enjoys it, while they do what they do....

Funny as crap.

I've had to question mine a few times when a "new" car pulls up the driveway. They seem to be quite docile. I guess cause I am around. The good thing is the drivers, once they see the dogs, just beep for attention. :)
 

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I sort of question, not criticize, all of the security camera planning. It would seem the priority would be notification of an intruders presence rather than a record after the fact. Motion detection lighting and alarms certainly seem appropriate to either scare away or offer time to prepare for an intruder. It just seems like the expense, given a limited budget, of camera systems would do little in the way of notification. Even with a record you have little chance of any satisfaction form a trespassing charge and if it is a record of theft or assault you have already lost the battle. Again this isn't criticizing any of the planning I have just been thinking of where I personally would concentrate my expenditures to provide the most security to my family.

I also suspect that if your area is like mine it was a Meth head looking for something easily grabbed to trade for another hit. It is a terrible problem here. According to my conversations with local LEO the only plus side is they are generally very paranoid and easily scared. Something like motion lights and they just move on to the next place.

MarkV
 

TripleR

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I think your reaction to this is appropriate, as is your plan to make your property more secure, which in turn will build back your confidence and peace of mind. This is not "over-reacting", this is "taking necessary precautions"..there is a difference. I would not want to throw the dice on that guy being harmless. I spent a entire career being educated in the depths of human depravity and I learned that it's a bottomless pit. I will never assume harmless intent of anyone stalking my family or home....ever.

Same here, I spent my career dealing with criminals and victims; scary when you know what is really out there and what can happen. It may not be likely, but certainly possible and as mentioned we can choose to ignore it and hope for the best or take reasonable precautions in the event our hopes are not realized.

Of all the victims of crime, other than domestic violence, there were few who didn't say something to the effect of "I never thought something like this could happen to me." If some think I am paranoid, it's certainly not the worst I've been called.
 

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There are also the products which are like a window tint (can get it in clear or dark or reflective) that will help prevent a window from being smashed in.
I watched a show on the history channel where they shot at it (i think it was 12mil thick) and the window held. I see it come up on ebay every now and then.
 

dave1949

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I will have to vote for dog improvement. Some breeds and individuals within a breed are high energy and confident, some are not. Two dogs are better than one, they give each other support and pack confidence. A trained dog will actively protect you or your wife in a physical intrusion or assault situation, no camera or motion sensor will do that. That protection is portable if need be.

Dogs may not be the total answer, but I wouldn't discount their advantages--if well trained and cared for.
 

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I see lots of $$ in the camera systems. I have worked at very large commercial facility and a college campus that are wired with many cameras. It always seems that even if security can get an image of something going down, often it isn't enough to ID the person. I think trying to have a camera in the right place to watch a property line wouldn't be a great security investment. It might be on my list, but I think self defense training, safe room & weapon would be my first investments.
 

dmccarty

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...It may not be likely, but certainly possible and as mentioned we can choose to ignore it and hope for the best or take reasonable precautions in the event our hopes are not realized.

Of all the victims of crime, other than domestic violence, there were few who didn't say something to the effect of "I never thought something like this could happen to me." If some think I am paranoid, it's certainly not the worst I've been called.

I think the vast majority of people in this country are in ignorant bliss of the evil that walks among us. The evil that lives a next door. People just do not know. Taking precautions is a good idea.

This morning there was a story of a very elderly couple attacked with a shovel in their retirement home. Course, a few years ago we had a woman beaten to death in her retirement home. Then there was a women and child who where just shot by three men for some reason. They shot an eight year old boy five times.

One can make plans to defend against this sort of evil or you can roll the dice and hope. I would rather plan and prepare rather than hope.

The OP's house seems to be like ours. If I saw a person looking at our house from the woods, THERE IS NO GOOD reason for that person to be there. NONE. If the person wanted help they would approach the house and knock on the door. Given our geography, there really is no good reason for someone to be standing in the woods. Someone with car problems would not walk to FIND our house to get help. They would go to the nearest house on the road. A person in the woods at our place is almost certainly up to no good. The people I have found in the woods WHERE up to no good.

The problem with the cameras is that they really are good for either keeping the bad guys away, if they see the cameras, or catching the bad guys after the fact. For the cameras to be useful, you really need something that can see at night. The best I could come up with was to have IR flood lights to illuminate around the house while having a camera(s) that could use that light to see what was happening outside. The IR light is not visible to human's but the camera(s) can use the IR. We have a boat load of outside lights, flick on the lights, which can be done from multiple positions in the house, and everything can be seen. Of course that would warn the bad buys which could be good or bad. The IR light would allow one to monitor without being observed.

A vulnerability one has in a rural setting is that there are often outbuildings a decent distance from the house. A bad guy that gets between you and the house is a concern. If you don't have a weapon with you then there needs to be one handy in the outbuilding. A cheap single or double shotgun locked up and hidden in the "barn" is a solution.

Later,
Dan
 
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greasemonkeyok

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A casual observation of the above posts. Those with experience in the criminal justice system recommend taking the situation seriously. Sure, the odds are that you won't become a victim. But given the severity of the consequences if you do become a victim, it is not paranoia to take reasonable precautions.

Criminals don't think like regular folks. If a regular-folk neighbor hears gunfire on your property, he thinks "I better not go over there unannounced." The criminal thinks "Hey man, he's got firearms that we can steal and sell on the street for our next hit."
 

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I sort of question, not criticize, all of the security camera planning. ... Even with a record you have little chance of any satisfaction form a trespassing charge and if it is a record of theft or assault you have already lost the battle.
If someone steals from my property, I would love to know who did it, even if the knowledge would not result in getting my stuff back. In addition, local thieves will come back again and again as long as they think you don't know who is doing the stealing. Even if our lax judicial system fails to adequately deal with the perp, I can make thief very aware that he probably doesn't want to enter my property again. There's not much worse than having someone who lives nearby who repeatedly keeps stealing from you. That situation can drive you and your wife up a wall.

I had a friend who was building a house in a rural area who kept getting stuff stolen from his property. He suspected a teenager who lived nearby. One day my friend gave the teen a visit and said, "I own a backhoe. If I ever find out who is stealing from me, I will bury him in the woods where nobody will ever find him." The delinquent shortly afterward was busted on meth lab charges and got sent away to a juvenile detention center. The thefts at my friends property mysteriously stopped.

When I lived in my previous house, I recognized in the front yard of a house a 1/4 mile down the road a gas can that had been stolen from my property. I pulled into the yard, retrieved the gas can, then knocked on the door. When the 40 year old drug head answered the door, I told him I found my gas can sitting in his yard. I told him very firmly that he and any of his associates were never to set foot on my property again. I made no statement as to what would happen if he did but let him read between the lines.
 
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MasseyWV

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I sort of question, not criticize, all of the security camera planning. It would seem the priority would be notification of an intruders presence rather than a record after the fact. Motion detection lighting and alarms certainly seem appropriate to either scare away or offer time to prepare for an intruder. It just seems like the expense, given a limited budget, of camera systems would do little in the way of notification. Even with a record you have little chance of any satisfaction form a trespassing charge and if it is a record of theft or assault you have already lost the battle. Again this isn't criticizing any of the planning I have just been thinking of where I personally would concentrate my expenditures to provide the most security to my family.

Security cameras will only be a secondary line of defense. Intruder detection is my highest priority, where I will employ several different methods of detection, with motion detectors being but one of those methods. As for the other methods I plan to use, I prefer not to say what they are, but if my intruder returns he'll wish he hadn't.

To accomplish my goal of intruder detection, I'd like to use multiple outdoor wireless motion detectors linked to a single indoor receiver with an audible alarm. This will allow me to create choke points using brush and debris along the woods at property line and direct potential intruders to specific points of my choosing. I also plan to install a driveway alarm to detect vehicles before they get near the house. These are my highest priorities.
 

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I like the idea of a Ruger LCR (or the s&w body guard) series weapons.
They are small enough that I think you could carry them all the time and you wouldn't get annoyed by the inconvenience of lugging a weapon around.
They both have an optional laser site! I think they make perfect carry weapons!

I don't have a full carry license but if I did I would seriously consider one of these.

I have the S&W bodyguard .38 with the integrated laser. Like all 2 inch barrel guns it takes some practice to shoot accurately. Overall I really like it. The only downside I've found is the lack of holsters that take laser into account.
 
  
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MasseyWV

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One of the things I plan to do to enhance my perimeter security is install electrified barbed wire along the property line adjacent to the field where the intruder fled. The barbed wire (powered by an electric fence box) will be hidden within the tree line so it won't be unsightly and will serve two purposes.

1. It will deter deer from crossing the line and setting off the motion detectors.

2. It will define a clear boundary line and give an intruder a good shock if they try to cross it, with the added benefit of slowing them down if they do manage to cross the line and try to flee after they are detected.

I think the vast majority of people in this country are in ignorant bliss of the evil that walks among us. The evil that lives next door. People just do not know. Taking precautions is a good idea.

Living in such a secluded area tends to make one feel a little too secure. I must admit that I became overly complacent and was caught off guard, but it won't happen again.

If someone steals from my property, I would love to know who did it, even if the knowledge would not result in getting my stuff back. In addition, local thieves will come back again and again as long as they think you don't know who is doing the stealing. Even if our lax judicial system fails to adequately deal with the perp, I can make thief very aware that he probably doesn't want to enter my property again. There's not much worse than having someone who lives nearby who repeatedly keeps stealing from you. That situation can drive you and your wife up a wall.

Exactly. Knowing the enemy gives one a very distinct advantage over them. In my case, I'm 99.99% certain it was a local, and I may even know exactly who it was. At least I've narrowed the list down to two potential suspects.

Granted, it could have been a random stranger, but it was too specific. Only someone intimately familiar with this property and it's surroundings could have known how and where to enter the area where the intruder was seen. And I strongly believe it was not the first time they've been there, they just got caught this time.
 

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A few of these maybe?
 
  
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MasseyWV

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This afternoon, I began clearing the undergrowth along the tree line which made a huge difference. I'd like to see someone try to hide there now.

A few of these maybe?

Signs are part of my plan, but these are more my style. :laughing:

2la9etz.jpg
 

dstig1

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I've been reading along with this thread but hav not commented yet. Cameras is a topic that can fill pages. I have been researching this myself for some time. Here's some things that I haven't necessarily seen addressed:

IP Vs analog cameras. There are differences, but the #1 difference is resolution. IP cameras have the ability to have much higher pixel count than analog cameras do. That is not always necessary. If you are covering a small choke point, an analog camera may have plenty of resolution to show faces clearly. Analog cameras tend to be better in low light and often (though not always) at night. Analogs are generally much smaller too, so can be concealed in tight spaces. But you pay for resolution, bigtime. IP cameras are always more expensive, and often several times more, due to the resolution and other features.

You can mix camera types, though it seems to make sense to go IP for the system backbone. There are converters that make analog camera signals into network signals so you can feed those into your network, if you want or need them.

Recording. Systems in a box that include cameras and a DVR/NVR are almost always crap and should be avoided. Dedicated DVR/NVRs seem like a poor choice to me as many require proprietary hardware. I believe the better choice is NVR software on a dedicated PC. You basically need to create a separate network in your house for IP cameras, as they can consume huge amounts of bandwidth. You get a few cameras going, and it will bury a home network and you will lose frames, drop connections, etc. You very quickly get into the need for gigabit ethernet switches, which are not too crazy expensive anymore. There are some decent software packages out there, but Luxriot seems to be the best bang for the buck. A commercial grade system with reasonable costs. Get a decent PC (used or not) and XP Pro for an OS as your server. Win 7 uses too much memory and resources for this application. With software like Luxriot, you can log into the server remotely even from your smart phone and watch cameras. It can send alerts to you. Track motion. Scheduled recordings. Things like that.

This gets expensive very quickly. If you try to do it cheap, you will find that when/if you need those images, they will probably be useless as you will not have enough resolution or enough camera coverage to see what you need. It is like race cars - "speed costs money. How fast do you want to go?" Only here you will find you have just wasted money on a cheaper system as it will deliver nothing useful when you need it. You need to get good cameras, and frankly a lot of them to really be useful. You are better off starting with 1 or 2 good cameras rather than a raft of crappy ones. Then add as you can.

My $0.02
 

aczlan

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Get a decent PC (used or not) and XP Pro for an OS as your server. Win 7 uses too much memory and resources for this application. With software like Luxriot, you can log into the server remotely even from your smart phone and watch cameras. It can send alerts to you. Track motion. Scheduled recordings. Things like that.
Here, we will have to disagree. I have several computers (Intel Core Solo or AMD Sempron 3000+ and faster) which I have converted from XP to 7 (for schoolwork with licenses through school). All have had at least 1.5 GB of RAM and IMO, all have been as fast, or even a little faster under Windows 7.

This gets expensive very quickly. If you try to do it cheap, you will find that when/if you need those images, they will probably be useless as you will not have enough resolution or enough camera coverage to see what you need. It is like race cars - "speed costs money. How fast do you want to go?" Only here you will find you have just wasted money on a cheaper system as it will deliver nothing useful when you need it. You need to get good cameras, and frankly a lot of them to really be useful. You are better off starting with 1 or 2 good cameras rather than a raft of crappy ones. Then add as you can.
I agree. As the saying goes: Good, Cheap, Fast. Choose any 2.

Aaron Z
 

dstig1

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Aaron, My point was not fully made, I guess. Post was long enough as it was...

You can get a pretty basic PC and run it with XP as it is a much lighter OS, and very stable. 7 takes a lot more horsepower to run. You can find a cheap PC that will run XP from lease returns on ebay and work perfectly for this. I wouldn't try putting 7 on those.

Plus a lot of industrial software like this seems to be an OS or two behind the curve, so things may not work as well with 7 as with XP, which is old enough to have been around the block a bunch. Heck you still find serial ports on some industrial equipment even though USB has been around for like 15 yrs...
 

Lebneh

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dstig1 said:
I've been reading along with this thread but hav not commented yet. Cameras is a topic that can fill pages. I have been researching this myself for some time. Here's some things that I haven't necessarily seen addressed:

IP Vs analog cameras. There are differences, but the #1 difference is resolution. IP cameras have the ability to have much higher pixel count than analog cameras do. That is not always necessary. If you are covering a small choke point, an analog camera may have plenty of resolution to show faces clearly. Analog cameras tend to be better in low light and often (though not always) at night. Analogs are generally much smaller too, so can be concealed in tight spaces. But you pay for resolution, bigtime. IP cameras are always more expensive, and often several times more, due to the resolution and other features.

You can mix camera types, though it seems to make sense to go IP for the system backbone. There are converters that make analog camera signals into network signals so you can feed those into your network, if you want or need them.

Recording. Systems in a box that include cameras and a DVR/NVR are almost always crap and should be avoided. Dedicated DVR/NVRs seem like a poor choice to me as many require proprietary hardware. I believe the better choice is NVR software on a dedicated PC. You basically need to create a separate network in your house for IP cameras, as they can consume huge amounts of bandwidth. You get a few cameras going, and it will bury a home network and you will lose frames, drop connections, etc. You very quickly get into the need for gigabit ethernet switches, which are not too crazy expensive anymore. There are some decent software packages out there, but Luxriot seems to be the best bang for the buck. A commercial grade system with reasonable costs. Get a decent PC (used or not) and XP Pro for an OS as your server. Win 7 uses too much memory and resources for this application. With software like Luxriot, you can log into the server remotely even from your smart phone and watch cameras. It can send alerts to you. Track motion. Scheduled recordings. Things like that.

This gets expensive very quickly. If you try to do it cheap, you will find that when/if you need those images, they will probably be useless as you will not have enough resolution or enough camera coverage to see what you need. It is like race cars - "speed costs money. How fast do you want to go?" Only here you will find you have just wasted money on a cheaper system as it will deliver nothing useful when you need it. You need to get good cameras, and frankly a lot of them to really be useful. You are better off starting with 1 or 2 good cameras rather than a raft of crappy ones. Then add as you can.

My $0.02

Lots of good info here but I would like to expand on the network requirements a little. Unless, you're constantly recording video from all the cameras at the same time the network traffic is very minimal. Meaning if you have the cameras set to alert mode or aren't viewing them all at the same time there isn't much to worry about.
Most IP cameras have a web engine built into their firmware. The traffic is connection based not a blunt broadcast.

When you are recording it can jump up there a little but an N wireless network should be fine.

I run a bunch of cameras on mine without issue. I can even record/view them from the cloud via my small 500Kbps (upload) Internet line. I still have plenty of bandwidth to stream Netflix/ online games/ whatever. I even host a Vent server from the same network without issue.

So yes, higher res cams take more bandwidth but an N wireless network should handle it no problem.


IMO, if you buy a computer to do the viewing/recording just put whatever OEM, OS came with it. They will all do the job.
 

joshuabardwell

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One of the things I plan to do to enhance my perimeter security is install electrified barbed wire along the property line adjacent to the field where the intruder fled. The barbed wire (powered by an electric fence box) will be hidden within the tree line so it won't be unsightly and will serve two purposes.

It is generally recommended never to electrify barbed wire. An animal that gets tangled in the fence can be killed by the continual shocking. At the very least, the animal will be tortured until it escapes, dies, or is rescued by someone. Getting tangled in barbed wire is bad enough all by itself without getting constantly shocked too. If you must combine electric and barbed wire, run parallel, alternating lines of non-electric barb and electric smooth-wire. Or electric smooth wire with a top line of barbed wire (non-electric) to discourage climbing over. Or, heck, if human animals are your main concern, forget electric and just go barbed. Electric is the end-all, be-all to animals, who have no idea what has happened to them when they get shocked. A human will get shocked and then will know not to touch the fence and will just figure out a way to defeat it. Barbed wire is a whole lot nastier and harder to defeat than electric. The electric fence can be totally disabled with an improvised ground rod placed against a wire, for example.
 

Obed

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joshuabardwell said:
It is generally recommended never to electrify barbed wire. An animal that gets tangled in the fence can be killed by the continual shocking. At the very least, the animal will be tortured until it escapes, dies, or is rescued by someone. ...

The electric fence can be totally disabled with an improvised ground rod placed against a wire, for example.
Your common meth head may not be that smart. He's dumb enough to be doing drugs.
 

texasjohn

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Joshua, gotta disagree with you re electric fence....I run two chargers and multiple miles of it....have for 20 years...so some experience.

modern electric high intensity fence chargers will not kill a person or animal nor start a fire.

You can electrify either smooth or barb wire. Personally, I run alternately smooth and barb. smooth is electric primarily because it is cheaper than barb and MUCH easier to handle and electrify. Barb is grounded. As a personnel deterrent, it will really set you on your can when you get hit...but immediately thereafter you are able to function again. True, you can get past it by rolling under it, using a stick to keep it away from you as you step over fence. Only if fence is multi strand, low to the ground AND too high to step over would it be a significant deterrent.

That said, such a fence is an excellent way to identify property boundaries, hang no trespassing signs on, contain/repel animals (enough wires and electricity will hold back elephants, hogs and coyotes...really) and as such would funnel intruders to gates or drive ways where they can be captured on camera or alerted by various sensors.
 

birddog0304

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John you're correct. Might I add the enjoyment of watching a bull that has destroyed a conventional fence several times be introduced to an electric fence (lol).
Know you local and state laws regarding marking a perimeter fence that has been electrified. Wouldn't want to be putting any meth heads out of work because they got introduced to an electric fence. More important I would hate to see a filthy lawsuit against someone just taking care of or up keeping their property.
 

PineRidge

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If they can read this one should do the job nicely
 

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MasseyWV

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IP Vs analog cameras. There are differences, but the #1 difference is resolution. IP cameras have the ability to have much higher pixel count than analog cameras do. That is not always necessary. If you are covering a small choke point, an analog camera may have plenty of resolution to show faces clearly. Analog cameras tend to be better in low light and often (though not always) at night. Analogs are generally much smaller too, so can be concealed in tight spaces. But you pay for resolution, bigtime. IP cameras are always more expensive, and often several times more, due to the resolution and other features.

You can mix camera types, though it seems to make sense to go IP for the system backbone. There are converters that make analog camera signals into network signals so you can feed those into your network, if you want or need them.

After further research, I've came to the same conclusions regarding cameras.

My requirements dictate that I have the highest resolution possible with night vision capabilities. Good resolution is far more important to me so it would seem that IP based cameras would be the better choice.

Having night vision capabilities is almost as important, but any shortcomings in this area can be compensated for by using motion sensing flood lights. It would be sort of a gotcha situation, when the lights are triggered it would be too late, assuming the camera can adjust to the lighting conditions quickly enough. Alternatively, using lighting which is always on would also be a consideration.

Ideally, each camera would have remote motion sensors or be capable of being linked to a series of them but I've never seen any using the latter configuration. Basically, what I'd like to have is a line of motion sensors to detect the presence of an intruder which would then trigger a perimeter alert (indoor audible) and cause the camera(s) to start recording. Ideally, the system would also allow other trigger mechanisms to set everything into motion.

Since passive infared motion detectors aren't always reliable, I'm also looking at active infared sensors as well as other remote sensing systems both high and low tech. For example, a tripwire could trigger a switch, etc...

Recording. Systems in a box that include cameras and a DVR/NVR are almost always crap and should be avoided. Dedicated DVR/NVRs seem like a poor choice to me as many require proprietary hardware. I believe the better choice is NVR software on a dedicated PC. You basically need to create a separate network in your house for IP cameras, as they can consume huge amounts of bandwidth. You get a few cameras going, and it will bury a home network and you will lose frames, drop connections, etc. You very quickly get into the need for gigabit ethernet switches, which are not too crazy expensive anymore. There are some decent software packages out there, but Luxriot seems to be the best bang for the buck. A commercial grade system with reasonable costs. Get a decent PC (used or not) and XP Pro for an OS as your server. Win 7 uses too much memory and resources for this application. With software like Luxriot, you can log into the server remotely even from your smart phone and watch cameras. It can send alerts to you. Track motion. Scheduled recordings. Things like that.

Unless, you're constantly recording video from all the cameras at the same time the network traffic is very minimal. Meaning if you have the cameras set to alert mode or aren't viewing them all at the same time there isn't much to worry about.

After reading numerous reviews, it quickly became apparant that "systems in a box" were mostly crap so my plan is to purchase components individually as money permits. However, network storage still has me a bit perplexed, not so much from a technical standpoint as from a requirements standpoint.

Recording video 24/7 seems like overkill so I'd like to either record still images at a given time interval or only record video when the camera senses movement. That said, I've begun to wonder if a simple network storage drive (1-3 TB) on a dedicated gigabit network would be adequate. An NVR sounds great in theory but it seems like overkill, and having a PC running 24/4 doesn't appeal to me either. If it's possible, I'd like to only use a PC as a means of accessing the stored images/video or for viewing each camera's video feed.
 
  
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MasseyWV

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It is generally recommended never to electrify barbed wire.

You can electrify either smooth or barb wire. Personally, I run alternately smooth and barb. smooth is electric primarily because it is cheaper than barb and MUCH easier to handle and electrify. Barb is grounded.

After further consideration, I've decided that I'm going to run 1-2 strands of barbed wire (grounded) and a single strand of smooth electrified wire. Barbed wire generally has to be stretched to make it tight and most insulators I've seen probably wouldn't allow me to stretch the barbed wire tight enough. Having a strand of tight barbed wire over a strand of smooth electrified wire would also provide some protection for the electrified wire in the event of falling tree branches.
 

kidr

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I will have to vote for dog improvement. Some breeds and individuals within a breed are high energy and confident, some are not. Two dogs are better than one, they give each other support and pack confidence. A trained dog will actively protect you or your wife in a physical intrusion or assault situation, no camera or motion sensor will do that. That protection is portable if need be.

Dogs may not be the total answer, but I wouldn't discount their advantages--if well trained and cared for.




Most people can't manage a trained protection dog. They are not easy or inexpensive to come by. They are also a great liability. A big untrained dog may or may not protect you. An alert terrier will bark and warn of anything abnormal.That's my vote.
 

Lebneh

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After further research, I've came to the same conclusions regarding cameras.

My requirements dictate that I have the highest resolution possible with night vision capabilities. Good resolution is far more important to me so it would seem that IP based cameras would be the better choice.

Having night vision capabilities is almost as important, but any shortcomings in this area can be compensated for by using motion sensing flood lights. It would be sort of a gotcha situation, when the lights are triggered it would be too late, assuming the camera can adjust to the lighting conditions quickly enough. Alternatively, using lighting which is always on would also be a consideration.

Ideally, each camera would have remote motion sensors or be capable of being linked to a series of them but I've never seen any using the latter configuration. Basically, what I'd like to have is a line of motion sensors to detect the presence of an intruder which would then trigger a perimeter alert (indoor audible) and cause the camera(s) to start recording. Ideally, the system would also allow other trigger mechanisms to set everything into motion.

Since passive infared motion detectors aren't always reliable, I'm also looking at active infared sensors as well as other remote sensing systems both high and low tech. For example, a tripwire could trigger a switch, etc...





After reading numerous reviews, it quickly became apparant that "systems in a box" were mostly crap so my plan is to purchase components individually as money permits. However, network storage still has me a bit perplexed, not so much from a technical standpoint as from a requirements standpoint.

Recording video 24/7 seems like overkill so I'd like to either record still images at a given time interval or only record video when the camera senses movement. That said, I've begun to wonder if a simple network storage drive (1-3 TB) on a dedicated gigabit network would be adequate. An NVR sounds great in theory but it seems like overkill, and having a PC running 24/4 doesn't appeal to me either. If it's possible, I'd like to only use a PC as a means of accessing the stored images/video or for viewing each camera's video feed.



Foscam's cameras can do a lot of the stuff you listed. Motion triggered video recording(when a computer is monitoring), audible alarm (when a computer is monitoring them), night vision, (most models) turn off the recording light, newer models have HD resolution.

You haven;t mentioned it but I like the FTP/or email on alert. They can upload/email a photo (1 per second) once motion is detected. You can setup a free gmail account or something and have 10GB of security in the cloud. That way if you ever lost the storage at your place you still have the footage. (IE: someone breaks in when you;re not there and they trash all the equipment)

I just did a test and my camera adjusted from night vision to light very fast (I would say about 2 seconds, max).

And, just for the record I don;t sell these cams :) They are just my favorite (I have only used a hand full of brands).



As for the NAS (Network attached storage) I would hold off. I would either spend the money on a dedicated (used) laptop or use your current computer until you have an idea of how much storage you will be needing.
 

texasjohn

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Massey, you will want to use this kind of fence strainer on both barb and smooth wires. Type of low impedance fence charger you need also pictured. I get these from Tractor Supply but they are available elsewhere.
strainer_thumb.php.jpgcharger_thumb.php.jpg
 

riptides

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Most people can't manage a trained protection dog. They are not easy or inexpensive to come by. They are also a great liability. A big untrained dog may or may not protect you. An alert terrier will bark and warn of anything abnormal.That's my vote.

Turkey and Guinea hens work well too. Mother nature has all sorts of alarms.
 

GPintheMitten

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This afternoon, I began clearing the undergrowth along the tree line which made a huge difference. I'd like to see someone try to hide there now.



Signs are part of my plan, but these are more my style. :laughing:

2la9etz.jpg

These type of signs, while humorous and might deter someone, could also be a problem for the owner. If you ever did have to shoot someone in self-defense, the signs could be used as evidence as to your intent in a prosecution against you. I would not use any of these type of signs.

In Michigan, you must be in fear for your life from an imminent threat of death or great bodily harm to yourself or another.
 
 
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