Oil & Fuel CK2610 Oil Change- Cranking Without Starting Engine Needed?

[toukow]

I'm going to do the one year oil change on my relatively new CK2610HST with 22 hours. The owner's manual states on page 7-15, step 9 to 'Run the start motor for approx. 10 seconds to distribute oil to each part of the engine'. In Kioti's great documentation style, I infer they meant 'Run the start motor for approx. 10 seconds without starting the engine'..... (italics mine).

Are any of you bothering with this step? I do not see any videos on YouTube doing so, but thought I'd see what the rest of you were doing. Given the filter orientation, you obviously can't prefill it. If you are doing this, is there a simple way to disable the engine in order to do this step, as I do not see a fuse that would do it? While preferable for any oil change, seems like you'd have enough residual oil film after warming it up to prevent any damage as on many other engines. On the other hand, I know it was recommended to do so on my boat's Hino diesel engines after changing the oil, but it had 'shutdown' switches which could be operated in order to accomplish.

Thanks, Toukow

 

[Peter 315]

I just put some oil in the filter even if its horizontal you can still get a little oil in it , fill the oil and start let idle ,check for leaks.....

 

[rademamj1]

For engine oil changes, here are two schools of thought. One method is start your engine and let the oil warm up for 5-10mins prior to doing your oil change. The thinking is the warm oil better flushes contaminants out of the engine. Resulting in a cleaner engine for the new oil. You can also do an oil change right after working your tractor, that's the same thing.

The second method is to just do the oil change while engine is cold, and after all the oil with contaminants have already, fully drained to the bottom. This is the method I use and prefer. Reflushing is avoided. However, Because the oil is cold, it does take longer to drain, but again, your not flushing the engine with dirty oil using this method.

In either case, there is enough oil as a thin film still coating your engine, even weeks after a shutdown, that excessive wear is a minimal concern. I never fill the oil filter, but do add extra oil to insure the filter is full.

 

[RandyT]

Dumping some oil into the filter will at least soak up the filter media. If you look at the outer ring of holes in the filter is there something in there that looks like a flat rubber washer. If so then just fill the filter, maybe even a couple times and let it soak in then screw on. The rubber washer is the indication for an anti drainback filter, and will prevent most of the oil from running back out when turned sideways.

 

[CobyRupert]

Don't they just want you to check oil level after oil has re-circulated and filled filter versus the pre-filled filter level?
Whether its 10 seconds of cranking, or 1-2 minutes of running (assuming no leaks) I wouldn't worry about it.
I doubt it's any different than 99.9% of other oil filter changes.

BTW: What percent of you change your own oil filters?
And what percent pre-fill the filter?
I never have in 30 years, but probably not a bad idea.

 

[Peter 315]

Don't they just want you to check oil level after oil has re-circulated and filled filter versus the pre-filled filter level?
Whether its 10 seconds of cranking, or 1-2 minutes of running (assuming no leaks) I wouldn't worry about it.
I doubt it's any different than 99.9% of other oil filter changes.

BTW: What percent of you change your own oil filters?
And what percent pre-fill the filter?
I never have in 30 years, but probably not a bad idea.

I always pre-fill my filters oil and fuel ....

 

[DK35vince]

Don't they just want you to check oil level after oil has re-circulated and filled filter versus the pre-filled filter level?
Whether its 10 seconds of cranking, or 1-2 minutes of running (assuming no leaks) I wouldn't worry about it.
I doubt it's any different than 99.9% of other oil filter changes.

BTW: What percent of you change your own oil filters?
And what percent pre-fill the filter?
I never have in 30 years, but probably not a bad idea.

I have always changed my own oil and filters.
I also pre fill my filters (at least half full)
I then start the machine (while watching the oil pressure, or at least make sure the oil pressure light goes out) and check for leaks, and recheck the oil level

 

[toukow]

I just got the following response from my dealer which REALLY leaves me wondering. Does this make sense to you? I can only infer he means 'crank', not 'run'-

Yes, run the engine for approximately 10 seconds then turn off. A little confusing those manuals are!

For engine oil changes, here are two schools of thought. One method is start your engine and let the oil warm up for 5-10mins prior to doing your oil change. The thinking is the warm oil better flushes contaminants out of the engine. Resulting in a cleaner engine for the new oil. You can also do an oil change right after working your tractor, that's the same thing.

The second method is to just do the oil change while engine is cold, and after all the oil with contaminants have already, fully drained to the bottom. This is the method I use and prefer. Reflushing is avoided. However, Because the oil is cold, it does take longer to drain, but again, your not flushing the engine with dirty oil using this method.

In either case, there is enough oil as a thin film still coating your engine, even weeks after a shutdown, that excessive wear is a minimal concern. I never fill the oil filter, but do add extra oil to insure the filter is full.

I have changed the oil cold at times mainly on a small collection of motorcycles, because I'm one of those people who changes oil as a hobby and they only had 200 miles (but 4 years) on the oil. If I understand your use of 'reflushing', you're saying why circulate dirty oil that I'm trying to get rid of in the first place, correct? I've always thought that doing it warm was meant to wash out more of the contaminants that had already settled into the bottom of the oil pan and are not in solution at the moment, and are thus washed out when the plug is removed (or at least more than if drained cold). May have it all wrong though, of course. I agree that the remaining oil film should be adequate.

Don't they just want you to check oil level after oil has re-circulated and filled filter versus the pre-filled filter level?
........

BTW: What percent of you change your own oil filters?
And what percent pre-fill the filter?
I never have in 30 years, but probably not a bad idea.

No, they are quite explicit (FOR A CHANGE!) as it says at the end of the sentence, of which I only gave you part '....10 seconds to distribute oil to each part of the engine.' Of course, with Kioti documentation, it could mean exactly what you say, as they like things to be open to interpretation!

As much as I've been bad mouthing their documentation, I have to give them credit for updating it. I have an older PDF version of the owner's manual which tells you to remove the drain plug twice and in the improper order; the paper version that came with the tractor has this corrected. Kudos to them for making the effort! I'll have to dump the PDF version.

I started pre-filling filters after dealing with the Hino diesels fuel spin on filters which took forever to pass fuel when trying to start afterward. So now I do it wherever I can. Does it make a difference? Given the quality of today's lubricants and assuming the engine has just been run, doubtful.

I'm not going to sweat it and change the oil like you all are suggesting, just felt I had to ask given it was stated explicitly. BTW, I've been hanging out a bit on 'Bob is the oil guy' website, and you really see the 'oil as religion' aspect of people which is present on every forum. Thanks for the comments! Toukow

 

[Kioti Paul]

My father taught me to change oil when I was 12. I have done all my own (and my family's) oil changes since. I have never filled the filter first. Cars from the 1960's might run 5-6 seconds (that is longer than it sounds!) before getting full pressure. Modern cars, (and my DK45) seem to get oil pressure immediately.

If the filter is installed vertically (open side up!), surely it couldn't do harm to prefill it, if it is horizontal, or even 45 degrees, I would worry about (potentially) making a mess. In my (humble) opinion, I just do not think pre-filling the filter serves any purpose----BUT, that is only my opinion-- I would not presume to give any advice other than to recommend following the manufacture's instructions, which you have already discovered - in the case of Kioti - can be very confusing!

I have always drained the oil when hot, right after shutting the engine off. Just the way I was taught. The theory being that any contaminants don't have time to settle out of the oil. I am not saying that is true, just the way I was taught.

I have found it to be true, and necessary, to apply grease, or at least a film of oil on the filter gasket before installing. And BE SURE the old "O" ring comes off with the old filter, (doesn't stick on the engine block)

On the other hand, I have always prefilled diesel fuel filters, because I worry about getting a (sort of) 'vapor' lock, that would need to be purged before getting the engine restarted. Frankly, I really believe that is not the problem that it used to be...however, I have never seen a diesel filter that was not installed 'vertically', so, why chance it??

 

[Kioti Dave]

My father taught me to change oil when I was 12. I have done all my own (and my family's) oil changes since. I have never filled the filter first. Cars from the 1960's might run 5-6 seconds (that is longer than it sounds!) before getting full pressure. Modern cars, (and my DK45) seem to get oil pressure immediately.

If the filter is installed vertically (open side up!), surely it couldn't do harm to prefill it, if it is horizontal, or even 45 degrees, I would worry about (potentially) making a mess. In my (humble) opinion, I just do not think pre-filling the filter serves any purpose----BUT, that is only my opinion-- I would not presume to give any advice other than to recommend following the manufacture's instructions, which you have already discovered - in the case of Kioti - can be very confusing!

I have always drained the oil when hot, right after shutting the engine off. Just the way I was taught. The theory being that any contaminants don't have time to settle out of the oil. I am not saying that is true, just the way I was taught.

I have found it to be true, and necessary, to apply grease, or at least a film of oil on the filter gasket before installing. And BE SURE the old "O" ring comes off with the old filter, (doesn't stick on the engine block)

On the other hand, I have always prefilled diesel fuel filters, because I worry about getting a (sort of) 'vapor' lock, that would need to be purged before getting the engine restarted. Frankly, I really believe that is not the problem that it used to be...however, I have never seen a diesel filter that was not installed 'vertically', so, why chance it??

I second exactly what Kioti Paul has said. Don't over think.