CK30 won't start again, must be low voltage but where.

[jimmyj]

So every fall my CK30 has the same issue. Turn ignition switch on, buzzing from glow plug relay, won't start. Have had good advice on this forum before but even after searching threads I cannot figure it out this year.

Last year tractor would start no problem if I ran a jumper from negative battery lead to a good ground. So bad negative cable contact I figured. I replaced battery as I had a new one anyway and cleaned negative battery cable including where it attaches to frame. All was good again.

This year same issue started again. Cleaning negative lead didn't do anything nor did jumper as a ground. Swapped out battery for the brand new one from my truck no improvement. After reading forum here, took ignition switch completely apart and cleaned. Seemed ok anyway, no corrosion inside (although if anyone else wants to do this beware there are two little spring loaded bearings that will sproing out when you take it apart so be careful). Took all 3 relays off the firewall and cleaned the contacts. The one furthest towards the center of the tractor did have corrosion on the contact spades. This seemed to make a difference and all of a sudden I had a strong glow plug light and dash lights for the first time in ages. Tractor also made the normal loud "click" when I moved the key to the glow plug position. I was excited but as soon as I tried to turn it over there was a quieter click sound from somewhere, I think near the relays and all the dash lights dimmed and no luck.

I think it just has to be a loss of voltage somewhere but I'm out of ideas. The dealer near me has gone out of business and it will cost me a fortune to have the tractor floated to the next closest dealer so I hope one of you has a few new ideas for me.

Thanks in advance.
Jim

 

[George2615]

Just a possibility but since you swapped the battery and cleaned the ground points maybe its time to change the battery cables. If the tractor was ever left outside (as most are at some point) in the rain the copper cables can corrode inside the protective coating. Try using a jumper cables from battery positive to starter terminal and battery negative to frame and try to start again. If it starts then the cables are bad internally you can get replacements at an auto parts store. Cable replacement is a cheap start to diagnosing. After that it may be a relay, starter solenoid, starter, or any number of things.

 

[jimmyj]

Good thought George2615. I tested the voltage through the pos lead and it is not losing any voltage. There also is lots and lots of juice at the starter, over 12 volts. The negative lead is less perfect and is only reading 11.9 volts when I test from the battery to the attachment point at the frame rail.

So, my suspicion turns back to the ignition switch. There is a connection where the ignition switch and corresponding wires plug into the wiring harness. When I test the battery side of that connection, I get a full 12 volts from the hot wire. There is another red wire and also a number of black wires. I'm guessing that they correspond to the individual circuits that the ignition opens as the switch rotates to engage accessories, glow plug and the starter.

So I have power from the batter to the starter, I have power to the ignition switch but when I plug the switch into the wire harness and test across the solder connections on the back of the switch very very little, approx 2 volts makes it through the switch. With the switch on I retest the power at the starter and voila, no longer 12 volts, now 2 volts. So the switch must be my problem.

Now I take the switch apart again. It's a really basic item. There is a copper disk with raised bits that rotates when the key is turned. The copper disk engages the various soldered points attached to the red and black wires from the wire harness as the switch is turned. I lightly sand the copper disk and also the soldered wire points so they are nice and shiny and clean. I visually inspect and can see the raised bits touching the soldered points. Seems encouraging. Reassemble, reinstall on tractor and not a darn thing works. No voltage is getting through the ignition switch at all now. I just don't get it.

 

[bumperm]

If the starter solenoid clicks, the ignition switch is most likely good.

Having a voltmeter helps a lot, but you can do some basic troubleshooting without it.

Tractor head lights on bright? If yes, proceed, if no, check battery connections and recharge, jumper, or replace battery. Do lights dim when starter switch is turned on (and there's a click), if lights dim, problem is most likely battery or connections (at battery, heavy wire at starter motor and the two at solenoid (sometimes the solenoid is integral with starter motor, so there will be fewer connections, though this isn't so common.

Turn key, if no click, then starter switch or small wire to solenoid, or solenoid itself is bad - to trouble shoot this, make sure tractor is in neutral and touch small terminal on starter solenoid to battery positive - - if starter engages, then problem is starter switch or wiring. If starter solenoid makes no click, it is bad. If it does click, then at least its coil is good. Using a suitable metal object or jumper cable (be very careful not to touch tractor frame when doing this) connect the two large terminals on the solenoid together momentarily - note, it may spark. If the starter motor engages and turns, it's good and the solenoid contact (internally) are bad - replace solenoid. If the starter motor does not engage and turn, it's bad, replace starter.

bumper

 

[George2615]

Good thought George2615. I tested the voltage through the pos lead and it is not losing any voltage. There also is lots and lots of juice at the starter, over 12 volts. The negative lead is less perfect and is only reading 11.9 volts when I test from the battery to the attachment point at the frame rail.

So, my suspicion turns back to the ignition switch. There is a connection where the ignition switch and corresponding wires plug into the wiring harness. When I test the battery side of that connection, I get a full 12 volts from the hot wire. There is another red wire and also a number of black wires. I'm guessing that they correspond to the individual circuits that the ignition opens as the switch rotates to engage accessories, glow plug and the starter.

So I have power from the batter to the starter, I have power to the ignition switch but when I plug the switch into the wire harness and test across the solder connections on the back of the switch very very little, approx 2 volts makes it through the switch. With the switch on I retest the power at the starter and voila, no longer 12 volts, now 2 volts. So the switch must be my problem.

Now I take the switch apart again. It's a really basic item. There is a copper disk with raised bits that rotates when the key is turned. The copper disk engages the various soldered points attached to the red and black wires from the wire harness as the switch is turned. I lightly sand the copper disk and also the soldered wire points so they are nice and shiny and clean. I visually inspect and can see the raised bits touching the soldered points. Seems encouraging. Reassemble, reinstall on tractor and not a darn thing works. No voltage is getting through the ignition switch at all now. I just don't get it.

Good troubleshooting. Now you have to find out why the 12V isn't getting through the switch.

 

[Coyote machine]

I'm not familiar with the CK-30's wiring specifically, BUT you said you found a relay on the firewall with corroded contacts. I believe 2 of the 3 relays are the same pin out and can be swapped for testing. Others more familiar can say for sure. If they are the same swap the identical relays to insure the one with corrosion is not part of the problem.
Also, I suggest getting a replacement ignition switch from a Kioti dealer of your choosing, and the plastic cap that keeps moisture out of the switch. You may be able to get the switch under warranty- they are a known weak link in those tractors, and the newer ones may be modified to address the issue. Then go through the checks already suggested including the fuse box to insure no marginal or corroded connections.

 

[oldpilgrim]

Last year tractor would start no problem if I ran a jumper from negative battery lead to a good ground. So bad negative cable contact I figured. I replaced battery as I had a new one anyway and cleaned negative battery cable including where it attaches to frame.................

you need to check both ends of the positive cable too.

 

[jimmyj]

Thanks fellas. I did check both ends of the pos cable and it seems fine.

Interesting stuff as I mess with this more. I'm now moving past the ignition switch to the relays on the firewall. I'm not sure how to see if they are good though although some are identical to other relays so maybe I can swap as suggested.

Anyhow, I was really confused as to how I am no longer getting any power through ignition to dash lights etc (unlike before when I had weak power). So on a whim, I put the battery charger on the battery and voila, headlights, dash lights and glow plug light. Even the loud click I associate with being ready to start (maybe the click is the starter solenoid). But, the third (and only unique shaped relay) on the firewall is buzzing like a bee now. So, on another whim I boosted the tractor from my truck and it reverted back to the "no power anywhere at all" condition. So on charger, power, off charger no power. Sure seems like a bad ground.

I am becoming very confused. The tractor has been down for 2 weeks now and I'm getting to the point where I may have to get it towed.

So, based on the suggestions here, I am now going to:
1. Re-test pos and neg battery cables. Maybe I made an error and one or both are bad.
2. Sit and think awhile
3. If no luck price new ignition switch and that third buzzing relay.
4. Wait for more advice from TBN wise-fellas.
5. Sit and think awhile more...

 

[oldpilgrim]

on a whim, swap out the battery with a known good one.

also see this thread. This sounds very familiar.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kioti-owning-operating/324823-2008-kioti-ck20-start-issues.html

 

[jimmyj]

Thanks oldpilgrim. Actually did both things already. Keep em coming though I know there has to be a solution.
I understand electricity but I'm not too good with engines. I just don't seem to have a knack for it seems to me.