Did you ever throw $2000 down a hole?

[John White]

Just lost $2000 down a hole. I have a shop in city limits. Hooked up to city water years ago. Water bill was only $4 a month for years. Then they started accessing me $50 a month for storm water run off. No storm drains in our area and all run off stays on my property. I had my lot split about 12 years ago and got a permit and put up a storage building. I got a permit and went ahead and installed a septic system before they changed the rules (which they have done now) making it very costly and nearly impossible to install a septic system. (no sewer in my area) I retired and put my first building up for sale. I decided I had better try and get some water so I could flush the commode and wash hands if needed.. My original thought was to have a track hoe come in and dig me a hole about 20ft deep or as deep as he could go. I Had a section of 36" dia. and about 6' long pvc culvert that I was just going to stand it up right and shove the dirt around it, put a cap on it and small well pump. I don't think I would use more than 10gal a day. I talked to a couple of track hoe owners and they said there was too much gravel in that area and if they tried to dig a hole that deep, it would just keep caveying in and any water in that area would just go on down because there was too much gravel. I am about 300' from a large river and up about 40' in elevation. Every one I talked too said just have a well drilled and I shouldn't have to go more than 40' to get enough water for what I needed. I called a well driller and he said the same thing but no wells in that area to know the depth. He said their minium charge was $2000. and that would get me a 100' if they needed to go that deep. They had gravel for about 15' then solid clay to 100'. and no water. They felt sure if I went another 25; they would hit water, so I said ok, still no water. I allowed them to go 175' and still in clay. I had no more money so I had them stop, and pull out. So I am out $2000 and still no water. So I need your thoughts and advice here. My thinking was to use schedule 40 pipe, with glued joints, pour enough washed pea gravel in the hole for about 20' feet off the bottom, install the 4' pipe (they drilled a 8: hole) to a depth of 150' and then put pea gravel around the outside. My thought with all the gravel already about 15' deep through out this area then clay down about 130' that I should have enough water for my need. I went by and looked at it today. At about 15' I could water. I took a rope with a flat weight on it and it appeared to sink about 18' and wouldn't sink any further, (I think there is a lot of clay water mixed soup in it. I did find a steel pipe about 20' long and went down ok. So if I sink a 4" pipe" and go down as far as I can, (hopefully 150')I need to have a cap on the bottom so it doesn't fill up with clay silt. How could I then knock the cap off the bottom after I fill the outside with pea gravel. Open for suggestions.
so

 

[Soundguy]

any river access for a springbox type setup?

any neighbors with water to tap off of.

a buddy lives in the mountains and one guy may be able to hit water on his property... and the next can drill 900' and hit nothing.. so many people in places like that share connections.

 

[SPIKER]

Sorry about your dry well hole. There are screen driven points that you can put onto the bottom of the 4" pipe which has a fine screen and is tough enough to be driven into hard clay/sand/soil mix. I would screw on a 4"~2"bell adapter and on bottom of that add the 2" well point. Then you can add the gravel round the 4" ok enough. Somewhere in the bottom of the 4" you will need a filter screen type materiel anyway so the 2" well point should provide SOME intake and then additional top intake. This top water will not be potable but you should be able to clean & filter it well enough to use it for everything else. We only drink a few gallons of water a week when were out & about picking up pop, coffee or the like provides most of our daily drinking needs adding a few gallons of bottled water is easy enough anyhow.

Otherwise you can put in a cistern pretty cheaply and feed it from spouting drains or the well and pump out of it for daily uses such as flushing & cloths washing.

Soundguys suggestion about the river tap is OK too, we though dont know if that is feasible in your area. Flooding is worst thing on basins at rivers edges. Silting from the river can be an issue or high & low water conditions depending on the river. EPA and or State Water district might also want to investigate if you are in a flowing river. Even underground trench parallel to or adjacent to the river could also be issue if flood decides to change where it is flowing.

We put in a cabin lake/pond well using backhoe and pea gravel mix and perf pipe. We took 4" perforated PVC, wrapped in the poly type silt screen. Dug a trench 36" wide and 5feet deep starting about 30ft from the pond towards the pond till it started to seep a lot of water into the trench. The PVC was dropped into the bottom and back fill with the gravel/limestone. then slid a 4" submersible pump in that 4" PVC. The Limestone/Gravel is waterlogged storage basin that runs into the submersible pump & worked well for 4+ years. The Woman of the house wanted non-lake water for showering even though the carbon filter cleaned it really well she was to city girlie to handle the thought of bathing in pond water...

I'm surprised that you had a dry hole in Ohio though usually water is not more than 20 or so feet underground & sufficient quality & quantity for most needs. In Perrysville where I worked we pumped a million gallons a month + from the on-site well though it was all of 43feet deep & maybe 600 feet from the Mohican River!

Looking at the map what is the river near by? Are you off the Muskingum River or one of the tributaries like "Kiber Run", "Lobdell Creek", "Moots Creek" etc?

Mark

 

[Soundguy]

+1 on the cistern..

 

[user.69169]

I been married 5 times.
$2000 is cheap!

The Devil made me do that!

 

[John White]

Sorry about your dry well hole. There are screen driven points that you can put onto the bottom of the 4" pipe which has a fine screen and is tough enough to be driven into hard clay/sand/soil mix. I would screw on a 4"~2"bell adapter and on bottom of that add the 2" well point. Then you can add the gravel round the 4" ok enough. Somewhere in the bottom of the 4" you will need a filter screen type materiel anyway so the 2" well point should provide SOME intake and then additional top intake. This top water will not be potable but you should be able to clean & filter it well enough to use it for everything else. We only drink a few gallons of water a week when were out & about picking up pop, coffee or the like provides most of our daily drinking needs adding a few gallons of bottled water is easy enough anyhow.

Otherwise you can put in a cistern pretty cheaply and feed it from spouting drains or the well and pump out of it for daily uses such as flushing & cloths washing.

Soundguys suggestion about the river tap is OK too, we though dont know if that is feasible in your area. Flooding is worst thing on basins at rivers edges. Silting from the river can be an issue or high & low water conditions depending on the river. EPA and or State Water district might also want to investigate if you are in a flowing river. Even underground trench parallel to or adjacent to the river could also be issue if flood decides to change where it is flowing.

We put in a cabin lake/pond well using backhoe and pea gravel mix and perf pipe. We took 4" perforated PVC, wrapped in the poly type silt screen. Dug a trench 36" wide and 5feet deep starting about 30ft from the pond towards the pond till it started to seep a lot of water into the trench. The PVC was dropped into the bottom and back fill with the gravel/limestone. then slid a 4" submersible pump in that 4" PVC. The Limestone/Gravel is waterlogged storage basin that runs into the submersible pump & worked well for 4+ years. The Woman of the house wanted non-lake water for showering even though the carbon filter cleaned it really well she was to city girlie to handle the thought of bathing in pond water...

I'm surprised that you had a dry hole in Ohio though usually water is not more than 20 or so feet underground & sufficient quality & quantity for most needs. In Perrysville where I worked we pumped a million gallons a month + from the on-site well though it was all of 43feet deep & maybe 600 feet from the Mohican River!

Looking at the map what is the river near by? Are you off the Muskingum River or one of the tributaries like "Kiber Run", "Lobdell Creek", "Moots Creek" etc?

Mark

Within 300 ' of licking River. Had a well put in at home and hit water at 10 ft. and I live at higher elevation. Sounds like your idea is the best, dig a hole as deep as I can, probably 18' till I hit clay, fill it up about 2' with washed 57 gravel sink a large pvc culvert, finish filling with 57's and put about 1' to top soil on it and run my gutters to drain near it. While I am asking questions, here is one. The 4" green sewer tile you see around, it has a rubber gasket for sealing> Will pvc cement also activate on it and glue it solid?. It is cheaper that schedule 40 but shoving 150' down a hole< I don't want it to come apart.

 

[newbury]

So you need only 10 gallons a day?

My solution for low need water:


300 gallon IBC tote, free thanks to Taylortractornut of TBN
Old cooler found on road with wire mesh to keep leaves off and funnel rain off roof.
Concrete blocks to raise it off the ground - about $10

Collects from about 200 sq ft of roof area. A 1 inch rainfall, like we had in the last 24 hours will collect about 10 cubic feet of water, or about 70 gallons.

I pour in some chlorine once and a while. Use the water for washing implements etc.

I've thought of getting fancy, but it works. Need to find another cooler, the old one is busting up.

 

[deerseeker001]

in 1972 we drilled a well it was 625 ft deep and then they took 14 sticks of dynamite.we hit blue rock at 9 ft down and continued to the 625.they blasted and called it good.told me we would have to watch our water consumption.we had two small babies in diapers so we were washing clothes steady.the well was drilled in Sept and i pulled the well cover and i could see water so i got some string and a big nut,we had water 25 ft from the top.we had 600 ft of water.it was a big expense that we hadn't planned.

 

[SPIKER]

On the green PVC w gaskets & Glue? Not sure, that might be a question better answered by the supplier. Check with REAL PLUMBING supplier not HD or Menards/Lowes guys.

Something worth thinking about is trying to dig towards the river, single line getting deeper and back-filing with washed crusher run & limestone blend. Let the water run thru this to the deepest point you can get close to the house/shop. Then run a vertical pump (shallow well type rather than the submersible.) Then put an above ground 300+ gallon tank for water storage. Use the well unless dry and have a switch box that you can run gutters into the tank. I would not run the gutters into the underground lines directly but running it into a dry-well of limestone/crusher run & sand that can then drain/filter thru into the system would probably be OK. I dont think the EPA would like you running surface water very deep into any kind of dry-wet well system.

Though I can surmise that that close to the river bottom you are setting on all old silt left over from the river. that silt could conceivably be 100's feet thick from billions of years of sedimentation. This was an explanation as to why a lot of Major river valleys have poor water. In our location higher up rivers run almost ON bedrock or below. Lower in altitude and slower meandering rivers have vast flood planes that are all silt. So poor drainage and poor qualities. Get near higher altitude rivers and water is almost unlimited volume but filtered thru the bedrock they run on top of. This far north the glaciers scraped off most of the upper layers of soils depositing instead ground up gravel and rubble which flow pretty good vs the clay/sediments in lower river valleys.

Mark

 

[Soundguy]

Check with REAL PLUMBING supplier not HD or Menards/Lowes guys.

Mark

ditto that.

i know for certain lowes employees are not even aware of what products they carry.. or how to use them...