DIY 50 hour service questions - GC17xx

[Scut 4 Big Bucks]

Don't over think it, man. Holy cow. Read the Operator Manual, section 4. It shows diagrams where everything is.

Section 6, specifications. Engine oil, Massey Ferguson Multiguard. Transmission and differential housing (including hydraulic system) AGCO Permatran 821XL. Grease, Massey Ferguson M-1105 or equivalent lithium base grease No. 2.

Done.

I'm not looking for something equivalent or better to put in my new tractor. I'm using what the Operator Manual says, mainly for warranty purposes. Will the warranty be void if I used something other than what was recommended in the manual and the part failed? I don't know, and I won't find out. If my transmission goes out with Massey Ferguson oil in it, it their problem, not mine. Now if I bought an older used tractor, things would be different.

 

[AxleHub]

Don't over think it, man. Holy cow. Read the Operator Manual, section 4. It shows diagrams where everything is.

Section 6, specifications. Engine oil, Massey Ferguson Multiguard. Transmission and differential housing (including hydraulic system) AGCO Permatran 821XL. Grease, Massey Ferguson M-1105 or equivalent lithium base grease No. 2.

Done.

I'm not looking for something equivalent or better to put in my new tractor. I'm using what the Operator Manual says, mainly for warranty purposes. Will the warranty be void if I used something other than what was recommended in the manual and the part failed? I don't know, and I won't find out. If my transmission goes out with Massey Ferguson oil in it, it their problem, not mine. Now if I bought an older used tractor, things would be different.

Greetings Scut,

Lol. Think of it more like drawing a map more than the idea of over analytical. A person drawsva map so that others can find the destination. My thought is . . any person needs to have some learning experiences. But the problem is (if you've noticed) . . that the quantity of prospects coming to tbn about Massey GC1700 related units has gone up anout 5 x what it was like 1 year ago. That's a stunning increase in interest (whether they buy or not is unknown). And that means questions and topics repeated and repeated. So I thought creating a few topic based "maps" could greatly improve posting efficiency and help eliminate some of the re-typing involved.

But just linking to a discussion thread is often not efficient because threads can get long and prospects can be inpatient or easily distracted with many opinions. Also when I used to teach prior to my consulting efforts . . I found that communicating new learning benefits from am "action and reason" concept rather than a "just do this" concept. And because people coming to TBN have varied mechanical aptitude . and skill sets . . Detailing benefits both beginners and users who maintain theirbequipment and a subcompact is a little different than their other equipment.

But while I learn andvfact gather from others I try to get varied opinions on readoning snd choices.

As an example . . Service techs come in all shapes and sizes. Yesterday when I asked about cold weather issues to thebtech relating to a front differential . . He said synthetic wasvavailable but morevexpensive . . . and stopped. But I mentioned that it only gets done every couple hundred hours so the cost was really negligible compared to the benefit. Now in a "mapped" description . . the justification is right there so newbies don't get mislwd by less jusyified opinions like the service tech mentioned by phone.

A good example is Ray. Think how many times he's had to re-state his findings over the last 7 years or more. There are a bunch of sharp guys on tbn . . But their time and typing efforts and patience can get tested. Over time posters can respond in shorter explanations thus reducing the information value. And it makes it harder to determine opinions from well founded opinions. So I like to think I'm a form of an apprentice with numerous craftsmen training me and me finding ways to multiply their good skills and ideas . . to the onrush of newbies that is multiplying.

Someone else who seems to be doing a similar effort is the poster Clipse with his GC1720. I'm mechanically skilled but Clipse is more of "a wrench". And his posts often contain drawings and pictures and specs to solutions he makes . . Some of his efgorts are really significant in detail.

My point is . . a year ago I was on the kubota or general forums vecause the massey forums were sleepy when it came to subcompact activity. But that has changed as Massey has become much better noticed or considered by prospects . . you're a great example Scut.

And I love having different opinions debated because then we can weed out the reasonings behind the opinions. There are some who don't "appreciate" my style because they've been using tractors for a long period and their opinion is supised to be fully accepted just because of that. But to me age and years are only a part of opinions and ideas.

P.s. again just so I'm clear . . When I refer to a recent conversstion with a service tech by phone . . it wasn't my dealer . . it was a dealer much much closer to me to see if I'd want to have someone do a 50 hour service locally. Late this werk I'll be driving to my dealer for an event and will ask the service manager there the same questions too

 

[ray66v]

Let me see if I can make it simple for you.

How much do you want to spend for the transmission oil. Here are your choices, $50, $100, or $200?

You can get the cheap generic stuff for $50, which may, or may not work fine. A premium brand like Permatran, or SUDT, which will work fine for sure. But, as you have seen in the owners manual, calls for up to 30 minute warm up times in cold weather. OR, synthetic oil, which works better in cold weather, and can last longer?

What's your pleasure?

 

[AxleHub]

Let me see if I can make it simple for you.

How much do you want to spend for the transmission oil. Here are your choices, $50, $100, or $200?

You can get the cheap generic stuff for $50, which may, or may not work fine. A premium brand like Permatran, or SUDT, which will work fine for sure. But, as you have seen in the owners manual, calls for up to 30 minute warm up times in cold weather. OR, synthetic oil, which works better in cold weather, and can last longer?

What's your pleasure?

Nice post Ray . . a "drawing a picture" moment

 

[2ndhalf]

I agree with SCUT 4 Bucks.. your making it too hard.. walk into an actual MF dealer and tell the you want everything to do a 50 hours service and you want exactly what the dealer recommends. Then make sure they give you that by reading the manual. Do not buy a WIX or NAPA Filter even though they may have manufactured the Massey Filter. This is exactly what I do, sometimes they know and sometimes I have to tell them but I have it in front of me from the manual. Then have your friend show you how to do it.

Get the Filter from the Massey dealer that you use on the Hydaulic system. Pay a few more $$$ to get everthing from the dealer. You paid how much for this tractor? That Hydraulic fluid change will last you years if you use yours like I do mine... I think it lasts 250 hours or more.

I say this all because if you have one little issue with that tractor's hydraulics and you go to the dealer and tell them you used anything that wasn't recommended in the manual they will wonder and so will you if that is your problem.

If a different oil worked so much better don't you think Massey would want you using that and list that in their manuals... don't skip your warm up time.

 

[ray66v]

If a different oil worked so much better don't you think Massey would want you using that and list that in their manuals...

This was the same thing people said about cars. Yet now, most of them come with synthetic oil in them from the factory? There are clear advantages to synthetic oils. They existed even when manufacturers were not specifically suggesting them in their manuals.

don't skip your warm up time.

No one here suggested that.

Yes, if you will live in fear, that your warranty will be voided for an early failure, then buy only MF brand products. (BTW: MF has never done that, in the 10 years I have been here). (You would think it happens all the time, based on the level of fear people have over it).

Do you also buy only GM brand, Motorcraft brand oil etc, and filters for your car? If so, you are well in the minority.

Ever heard of an engine, or transmission failure, that was not covered by warranty, because they did not use an OEM filter, or oil? Do you know that would violate Federal law?

Do you know, that most companies, Amsoil in particular, guarantees your warranty will NOT be voided by using their products?

With about half of the GC owners here using Amsoil ATH, for as long as 10 years, so far there have been no issues I know of.

 

[AxleHub]

This was the same thing people said about cars. Yet now, most of them come with synthetic oil in them from the factory? There are clear advantages to synthetic oils. They existed even when manufacturers were not specifically suggesting them in their manuals.



No one here suggested that.

Yes, if you will live in fear, that your warranty will be voided for an early failure, then buy only MF brand products. (BTW: MF has never done that, in the 10 years I have been here). (You would think it happens all the time, based on the level of fear people have over it).

Do you also buy only GM brand, Motorcraft brand oil etc, and filters for your car? If so, you are well in the minority.

Ever heard of an engine, or transmission failure, that was not covered by warranty, because they did not use an OEM filter, or oil? Do you know that would violate Federal law?

Do you know, that most companies, Amsoil in particular, guarantees your warranty will NOT be voided by using their products?

With about half of the GC owners here using Amsoil ATH, for as long as 10 years, so far there have been no issues I know of.

Greetings Ray. I think you are really doing a greatbposting job lately . . lots of strong points.

I understand what Scut 4 bucks and 2nd half are saying. But I've never been about being complacent. I change my engine oils when everyone else says its too early . . and my engines do very well instead of just OK. And my actual dealer has a great operation I don't get to very often but I was on the phone to the service department today andvthey remember me because I had gotten a chance to show them about a couple Massey products they'd never heard if until I mentioned them. Lol.

In fact I wasbtelling them what I did early on oil changes on my unit and what I used and they were very suppirtive of changingboilnearly and using synthetic oil for my cold winter benefits. Scut and 2nd galf are advocating followingbthe manual and that is a fine thing . . but as you mentioned . . their premise is Manufacturers recommend products because they are the best . . and in reality manufacturer's recommend their own profit making products. Asvan example . . I'm sure Permatran is a fine hydrailic fluid . . but its an Agco product too.

My goal is not to make it "easy for me" but to make better choices for better reasons. My career is based on that same focus.

Fast story . . I was designing and building a vety unique house and when the plumber came to do the rough in . . I asked him for an.opinion I was planming to do . . and then I asked each of his workers too. They were stunned I'd ask them . . but they ended up making some suggestions that I modified and then implemented. And the plumber admitted later thst maybe he should be doing more asking and adapting lol. My point is . . Learning for me is constantly desired . . its not work for me to avoid . . or I would have never even considered the Massey GC1700 series products.

As I mentioned in a prior post . . I've probablybread 25+ threads on fluids over the past year . . but not until this one did I stsrt understanding why some of the choices were preferred over others. You've had a couple really good ideas Ray but morebimportantly you've had good reasoning to support them. I'm just trying to lesrn from the best ideas so I can pasd them on.

 

[2ndhalf]

This was the same thing people said about cars. Yet now, most of them come with synthetic oil in them from the factory? There are clear advantages to synthetic oils. They existed even when manufacturers were not specifically suggesting them in their manuals.



No one here suggested that.

Yes, if you will live in fear, that your warranty will be voided for an early failure, then buy only MF brand products. (BTW: MF has never done that, in the 10 years I have been here). (You would think it happens all the time, based on the level of fear people have over it).

Do you also buy only GM brand, Motorcraft brand oil etc, and filters for your car? If so, you are well in the minority.

Ever heard of an engine, or transmission failure, that was not covered by warranty, because they did not use an OEM filter, or oil? Do you know that would violate Federal law?

Do you know, that most companies, Amsoil in particular, guarantees your warranty will NOT be voided by using their products?

With about half of the GC owners here using Amsoil ATH, for as long as 10 years, so far there have been no issues I know of.

I read the manual and use what it says to use. If it says using any oil with a specific API rating I find the oil I like that meets or exceeds that rating. My Massey manual is specific about the oil to use in the Transmission so I use that specific oil. It's not about making it easy it is about doing it right according the manufacture's manual. if I wanted to make it easy I would have just went to TSC and bought $50 worth of cheap oil.

I don't disagree that there are probably oils that can be used as a substitute and may even be better, I am just not using them in my equipment unless the manual gives me that latitude. Most car manuals do give you that latitude for engine oil.

 

[Scut 4 Big Bucks]

. . their premise is Manufacturers recommend products because they are the best . .

Not because they are the best, but because that's what it says in the manual. I'm using what the manual states for warranty purposes only.

If a Massey tractor has never broke down because of cheap oil, that's great. I'm just not going to be that first guy.

 

[ray66v]

I read the manual and use what it says to use. If it says using any oil with a specific API rating I find the oil I like that meets or exceeds that rating. My Massey manual is specific about the oil to use in the Transmission so I use that specific oil. It's not about making it easy it is about doing it right according the manufacture's manual. if I wanted to make it easy I would have just went to TSC and bought $50 worth of cheap oil.

Are you saying your manual says "Use only Permatran"? or, "Permatran required"?

You may be reading it that way, but it probably doesn't say that. Requiring you to purchase a specific brand of product, for warranty purposes, is against federal law. See: United States federal law, (15 U.S.C. sub section 2301 et seq.), Magnuson Moss Warranty Act.

If you choose a product that meets the requirements of Permatran ???, (whatever the version your tractor calls for, is), you're covered, as far as warranty goes.

My manual says, "Recommended lubricant- Permatran 3, or SAE 80 GL-4". That allows for just about anything.

For the record, I never recommend using cheap oil.