effect of mouse / rat poison on pets

merrickvilleguy · Dec 2, 2010

it comes down to how much they eat and the weight of the animal. For the poisons out there in commercial production there is a chart associated with them to indicate just how much the animal would have to ingest to be fatal this number is called LD50 (lethal dose 50)

as an example, the mouse treats we use here in the basement:
54g/Kg rat
340g/Kg mouse
1500g/Kg dog (i.e. a 10lb small dog would have to eat 15lbs of the mouse treat to have a 50/50 shot of being fatal)

Not to say a much smaller dose wouldn't make the animal sick, but a small exposure probably wouldn't be a big deal if treated immediately

NIXON · Dec 3, 2010

I've wondered about this subject for a long time . I have two Labs and a dachshund . The love chasing Mice ,rats, chipmunks and anything that seems worth chasing to them .
My solution to killing these pest is to use a 5 gallon pail with bird seed in the bottom . The rodents seem to be able to find a way in ,yet no way out .

thatguy · Dec 3, 2010

jayste said:
Bad stuff on pets. We had our Cocker Spaniel get into some mouse bait once and caught him shortly after he got it. Vet said to give him Hydrogen peroxide to cause vomiting. Worked pretty slick and the pellets (just a few but probably enough to do him in) came up with the rest of the stomach contents. I don't remember all the details but he said something about needing vitamin K and the poison causes internal bleeding if it wasn't caught quickly.

Our dog ingested some rat poison as well - and we did used a tablespoon or 2 of hydrogen peroxide to make him vomit.. Then had an after-hours emergency vet visit. they gave us some 'carbon' stuff to mix put in his next meal to absord any poison still in his stomach.. They also gave us Vitamin K to give him for 30 days..

brian

jinman · Dec 3, 2010

A common anti-coagulant taken by people with circulatory problems is Coumadin which is Warfarin Sodium. The active ingredient of most rodent poisons is also Warfarin. I was always told that green onions were the vegetable with the highest percentage of vitamin K when I had to take Coumadin, but it looks like there are many green vegetables high in vitamin K according to the list at this website. I suspect it might be pretty darn hard to get a pet to eat green onions or some of those other veggies though.

terry.dinerman · Dec 3, 2010

blackie65 said:
What can anyone tell me about the effects of pets coming into contact with a mouse or rat or any other rodent for that matter, that has ingested poison. Either by finding them alive or dead. I have been very hesitant to put any poison out because I am worried about the pets. I would obviously place the poison in some type of bait station that the pets could not get to. Rodents are no good but sick/dead pets are worse.

Blackie-

I am a Paramedic and have plenty of experience with the use of anticoagulants in humans as well as in rodenticides.

I made bloody war on rats and mice for years at the family slaughter-house and I have plenty of patients on anti-coagulant therapies....

Most of the rodent baits use some form of anticoagulant...the critters die from internal bleeding...

Anything that consumes either the bait or enough dead rodents that have consumed the bait can suffer the same fate....

In humans, you can use Vit K1 to counteract overdose of this class of drugs, but in serious cases, only a blood transfusion will restore the full range of clotting factors needed to control significant bleeding.

My experience is, the same is true in dogs and cats.

Your best bet is to offer your baits in a well-designed bait station, keep your pets well-fed to reduce their desire for carrion and clean up any dead rodents as soon as you find them....

...and be careful with rodent carcasses...hantavirus is no joke either...spray some water with a drop of soap in it on em to hold down any dust and pick em up like a Yuppie picking up dog poo...use an inside out plastic bag....in my part of Africa, Lassa Fever is regularly spread from contact with rodent carcasses....like I said...no joke.

I prefer repeating traps....you can still find the old-timey "Tin Cat" on the net and the old fashioned and home-made "Bucket Repeater" works like a charm...

I like to keep the poisons as a last resort or where required by health codes...keep the stuff from killing things I would rather not...owls, hawks, kites and the neighbors kids, cat or my "Precious Brides" Corgi's come to mind...

And the reduced exposure to these toxins in your local rodent population will also reduce the number of resistant rodents...when you have a serious infestation, you can spread out the bait stations and really put the beat-down on em...

Anyway...Be Careful Out There!

Terry

anojones · Dec 4, 2010

I use bait, I put it in a plastic tamper proof station staked to the ground and then inside a home made wooden box with a hole in it for the mice to get in. Most of the baits are anti-coagulants (cause the mice to bleed to death internally), some stronger than others- the stuff you buy in the store is not as effective (on mice or pets) as the stuff you can buy online. I currently use a vitamin D based bait- it causes the calcium in the rodents to get very high and they die from that. The vitamin-D based baits are safer for birds of prey but can still poison and kill pets. The vitamin-D baits are considered "organic", as it is just high dose vitamin-D- but don't be fooled, it is still a poison. I'm not sure if the vitamin-D based baits are less toxic to pets, but the advantage of the anti-coagulants is that there is an antidote (vitamin K) if you figure it out before the pet starts bleeding too much. There is an antidote for the elevated calcium, but it's unlikely to be available at your vet - and it more difficult and expensive to give. I only use one bait block per station, and as far as I can figure out this should not be enough to be fatal to a dog.

Skyco · Dec 4, 2010

jinman said:
A common anti-coagulant taken by people with circulatory problems is Coumadin which is Warfarin Sodium. The active ingredient of most rodent poisons is also Warfarin. I was always told that green onions were the vegetable with the highest percentage of vitamin K when I had to take Coumadin, but it looks like there are many green vegetables high in vitamin K according to the list at this website. I suspect it might be pretty darn hard to get a pet to eat green onions or some of those other veggies though.

Thats good because- Onions are toxic to dogs and cats!

http://www.jlhweb.net/Boxermap/onions.html

heehaw · Dec 5, 2010

i've gone thru 3 or 4 full bar type poisons i bought at TSC: used two different brands, an whatever is eating them, is still eating them: i have them in places so pets can't get to them, but after a couple days, crumbs are all thats left...i am considering using steel traps next...whatever it is gets out of the sticky traps with no problem...i find them all over the place...
heehaw