electrical gremlins?

   / electrical gremlins? #1  

Short Game

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2011
Messages
1,693
Location
Sunny SW Washington
Tractor
LS R4010 & Cub Cadet 7300
I needed to fuel up the 2010 4010 today. Nothing too odd about that. I noticed that after pouring in 6 gallons, it still was reading "Empty." That is strange, eh? But the last thing I noticed is while it's still on empty when the ignition key is turned off, the temp gage and hour meter are still registering degrees and hours. I think I can assume this will run the battery down if not sorted out soon. Turning off the key still kills the engine. It still starts normally.

Anyone here seen this issue?
 
   / electrical gremlins? #2  
The temp gauge is probably mechanical (uses a capillary tube in the motor) so it would continue to display the temp (no power required). If the hour meter still continues to add hours with the key off, that's not good. If that was the case you should have a lot of hours on a 4 year old machine (somewhere around 35,000 hours or so).
I do notice on my LS that after I have refilled the fuel tank, put the cap back on and got back on the tractor the gauge is still catching up. After about 30 seconds to a minute it then reads full. (Slow reacting gauge).
 
   / electrical gremlins? #3  
Did you sit the tractor off before fueling? If not, did the gauge ever start to read right, or did it read right after you cycled the key?

Fuel gauges do have a significant delay. Ever leave your car running while at the gas station? When it clicks off it only shows 1/2 tank or so. And takes 5 min to read correct.

If they read instantly, every bump or hill would make the gauge erratically.
 
   / electrical gremlins?
  • Thread Starter
#4  
I have more tales of high strangeness.

Went back to work after posting this thread. While the tractor could still run, I had to unload a car carrier piled full of pieces of big American chestnut limbs that broke off the 130 year old tree a couple of nights back and bombed the seventh green of our disc golf course, mashing the basket pretty much flat. This was today's project and it was after the first trailer load that I took off for lunch, knowing I would have to refuel before returning to the task.

I refueled as planned and went back to the scene of the crime. I was hard at it when I looked to see how high the six gallons raised the gauge on the nine gallon tank. I noticed it was reading exactly what it was when I decided to fuel up. I did have the thought that the last fuel in the tank had gone too quickly. So, the gauge was probably already on the fritz. I was back here in the yard unloading when I switched off the key to see the symptoms I posted above. I immediately took the lower covers off and removed the ignition switch from the plastic cover. I moved wires at connections and popped the cover off the fuses and stared at them for a minute. I banged the ignition switch on something (caveman approach). Nothing changed or even flinched. I cussed my luck and came in and posted this thread.

At this point, all I wanted was to get the tractors back in their shed, take a shower, and go do 4th of July kinds of stuff. I put the LS in the shed first. But this time when I shut off the key, the fuel and temp gauges dropped all the way, but the hour meter went really nutz. Instead of simply remaining on as before, it first went blank, and then all 1s, then all 2s, then all 3s, so on up to all 0s, then blank again. It just kept repeating this pattern. I then started the engine again and it continued the repeated count, though the gauges did not register again either. I then raised the loader and lowered the brush guard so I could pull the ground off the battery.

Of course it all went off at that. I figured I would connect it back up just to see what would happen. What happened is everything is apparently back to normal. The gauges read correctly and the hours are about what they should be. I started and stopped the engine a couple times and no change. Everything working normally. I put the ignition switch back and the lower covers back and came in to report back to you all. I think I have seen LS's version of the Blue Screen of Death. I guess it just wanted a reboot. I would have bet it all on banging the ignition switch on the brake pedal arm, but then, I'm an old fart diesel submarine electronics tech. Put a computer chip in it and I am pretty much lost.
 
   / electrical gremlins? #5  
Glad the unplugging the battery reset worked. maybe the ground wire to frame needs to be cleaned or maybe it just needed a reboot.
 
   / electrical gremlins?
  • Thread Starter
#6  
When I got this tractor it had a really tricky emergency flasher switch. I had no idea how complex this switch was, or I would have had it replaced right then. I blew that chance and now have no turn signals or flashers. With the price of that switch being insanely high, I'd like to build my own workaround. I asked for service and parts manuals when I did the deal for the 4010. The dealer just ran off copies of both. But what I didn't get was any schematics or wiring diagrams. The manual I got tells me zip about the electrical. When this problem came up yesterday, there I was again without a clue on the electrics. Does anyone know where I can find schematics and diagrams for the R4010 or R4041?
 
   / electrical gremlins? #7  
When I got this tractor it had a really tricky emergency flasher switch. I had no idea how complex this switch was, or I would have had it replaced right then. I blew that chance and now have no turn signals or flashers. With the price of that switch being insanely high, I'd like to build my own workaround. I asked for service and parts manuals when I did the deal for the 4010. The dealer just ran off copies of both. But what I didn't get was any schematics or wiring diagrams. The manual I got tells me zip about the electrical. When this problem came up yesterday, there I was again without a clue on the electrics. Does anyone know where I can find schematics and diagrams for the R4010 or R4041?

I know you can download the parts manual online but you already have that. Hopefully another member who has the full service manual can scan the schematics / wiring and email them to you as a pdf file.
 
   / electrical gremlins?
  • Thread Starter
#9  
Yup, that is true.

You might try the third link from this page.

Bob

Thanks so much, Bob. I now think I can see a workaround might be possible.

I see there is even a diode inside that emergency switch (for what, I do not know). What a way to make something more complicated than is necessary. It looks like all that complexity is just so the turn signals and emergency flasher can share a single flasher unit, while using different fuses for key-on (turn signals) or key-off (emergency flasher) power. I think they saved a bundle by not having two flashers, and all it takes is a $65 switch (your cost). I'd almost believe they hired German engineers to design their electrical system. I haven't seen this kind of electrical over-engineering since I gave up Volkswagens.
 
   / electrical gremlins? #10  
Thanks so much, Bob.

Well, you're welcome. Hope it was some use. After I complained that the service manual pertained only with mechanical issues, the counter guy did me a favor and showed me the chassis electrical section.

I notice the links have been hit several hundred times and you're the only one to make mention. . .

Bob
 

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