EPA attempting to limit Internal Combustion vehicles used for Racing

[Hay Dude]

What are you talking about? Disabling emissions equipment on street vehicles has always been against the law. The majority who do nothing wrong are not getting punished. The EPA was never concerned with people taking a street car, stripping off the pollution equipment, and then running it in competition. However, people kept that pollution control equipment deleted, then ran it on the street.

This discussion about the EPA doing this has been going on since around 2016. Why is it just blowing up today?

The “roll coal” and “delete” crowd were the ones who probably caused complaints to congressmen, representatives, governors, etc causing those regulations to be put in place years ago.
The people who never touched anything now have to spend more on trucks now and live with the lower reliability.
Its blowing up today because now the government is pushing new and more regulations on us.

 

[TractorGuy]

I'm not sure how in depth the ruling goes and I'm not going to waste my time reading it. Most of the EPA rulings are designed to save us from ourselves. They don't intend to be over reaching. They are looking at the science of air pollution and global warming. It wasn't too many years back you could find images of smog so thick you could barley see the cars in the larger cities. Thanks to the EPA most of that is just a smudge on our history.

Race tracks today are making good money on track days. Auto makers are making big money on emission legal race capable performance vehicles. I don't suppose they will stop these track day events from happening. There are multiple car clubs reaping millions in event fees and renting the tracks to have them at.

I run an old 99 Mustang with ALL it's emission controls in place. I did run a premium fuel tune on it for a while but I flashed it back to stock a few years ago. It never exhibited any smoke or smells to indicate it was emitting more emissions but then it didn't run a whole lot different with the tune in it. I will say my fuel mileage goes from twenty something to about eight miles per gallon on a race track even in stock form. It has to be emitting more emissions at a track day event.

I ran Daytona for my last track event and had 170 MPH+ stock vehicles blowing by me.

I detest those black smoke diesel trucks blowing by me in traffic. I also can't stand the sound of open exhaust gas burners. Most of them have removed their catalytic converters although you can make a vehicle louder without doing that.

Auto makers struggled with emision controls in the beginning much like they are doing now with diesel emissions. They eventually figured out how to make a gas engine burn cleaner and run well at the same time. They will eventually figure out the diesel thing or might even come up with a better power plant altogether.

 

[Diggin It]

Thing is, if they had cracked down on the violators HARD from the beginning, some of this wouldn't be necessary. Why didn't they block sales of these devices? Or at least restrict them for specific uses, like off road only. Log the VIN and marry it to device sales so that those vehicles could not get plates or on road insurance. If one is caught on road, impound it and forfeit it for auction or destruction.

Some states are harder on violators than others. Some will take a safety violation off the road until repaired, some will cite and allow X days to repair, others don't even have safety or emissions inspections at all.

 

[cqaigy2]

Thing is, if they had cracked down on the violators HARD from the beginning, some of this wouldn't be necessary. Why didn't they block sales of these devices? Or at least restrict them for specific uses, like off road only. Log the VIN and marry it to device sales so that those vehicles could not get plates or on road insurance. If one is caught on road, impound it and forfeit it for auction or destruction.

Some states are harder on violators than others. Some will take a safety violation off the road until repaired, some will cite and allow X days to repair, others don't even have safety or emissions inspections at all.

Not arguing the cracking down hard, but we'd be here all complainy about the cost of all those people doing enforcement and what a waste of money that is.

 

[PuffyC]

Thing is, if they had cracked down on the violators HARD from the beginning, some of this wouldn't be necessary. Why didn't they block sales of these devices? Or at least restrict them for specific uses, like off road only. Log the VIN and marry it to device sales so that those vehicles could not get plates or on road insurance. If one is caught on road, impound it and forfeit it for auction or destruction.

Some states are harder on violators than others. Some will take a safety violation off the road until repaired, some will cite and allow X days to repair, others don't even have safety or emissions inspections at all.

That's the problem - most vehicles aren't subject to emissions testing so it's real easy to take an offroad-only part and throw it on your daily driver without ever getting caught, which in my experience is not uncommon (I used to be a state inspector). This is just another one of those issues where if people followed the rules we wouldn't have a problem, but they don't so here we are.

 

[TMGT]

I'm not sure how in depth the ruling goes and I'm not going to waste my time reading it. Most of the EPA rulings are designed to save us from ourselves. They don't intend to be over reaching. They are looking at the science of air pollution and global warming. It wasn't too many years back you could find images of smog so thick you could barley see the cars in the larger cities. Thanks to the EPA most of that is just a smudge on our history.

Race tracks today are making good money on track days. Auto makers are making big money on emission legal race capable performance vehicles. I don't suppose they will stop these track day events from happening. There are multiple car clubs reaping millions in event fees and renting the tracks to have them at.

I run an old 99 Mustang with ALL it's emission controls in place. I did run a premium fuel tune on it for a while but I flashed it back to stock a few years ago. It never exhibited any smoke or smells to indicate it was emitting more emissions but then it didn't run a whole lot different with the tune in it. I will say my fuel mileage goes from twenty something to about eight miles per gallon on a race track even in stock form. It has to be emitting more emissions at a track day event.

I ran Daytona for my last track event and had 170 MPH+ stock vehicles blowing by me.

I detest those black smoke diesel trucks blowing by me in traffic. I also can't stand the sound of open exhaust gas burners. Most of them have removed their catalytic converters although you can make a vehicle louder without doing that.

Auto makers struggled with emision controls in the beginning much like they are doing now with diesel emissions. They eventually figured out how to make a gas engine burn cleaner and run well at the same time. They will eventually figure out the diesel thing or might even come up with a better power plant altogether.

So you don't want to even spend 2 min reading but will blindly say its for our own good? Sorry but just because a gov agency says its good for you doesn't make it so.

Even if all your emissions systems are in place you may still be in violation if you have any aftermarket parts, even if they don't affect the emissions system.

 

[ruffdog]

The aftermarket parts industry is represented by SEMA and they want their cake and eat it too. There are aftermarket parts that have been okayed by the EPA because they have went through the testing process. That process costs money and the industry doesn't want to pay it any more. The EPA is cracking down on non-EPA parts so now SEMA is drumming up this race car conspiracy theory. Simple....if you drive it on the street, use EPA certified parts.

 

[/pine]

Geeze...You'd almost think the topic was "assault weapons"...!

other nuisances just as bad IMO are bikes with open exhausts, blasting sound systems... the drivers of any vehicle using a cell phone etc., etc....

 

[Username Taken]

So you don't want to even spend 2 min reading but will blindly say its for our own good? <snip>

I think there was more than a little bit of snark his comment:

"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the Government, and I'm here to help. "

~ Ronald Reagan

 

[toppop52]

My point is the EPA stuff being talked about here only effects removal/deactivation/bypassing etc., of emissions control devices that were installed from the factory. Your car didn't have any. It's not effected.

It would have had a PCV which is technically a smog device, and if sold in California it would have had a smog pump.