Excavation-type pond/tank

[Foozle]

Hi all,

I've done a fair amount of searching on pond boss and this forum and couldn't find this question asked, so I'll take a chance and post it. I apologize if I've missed it somewhere, but there are so many threads on pond building it is sometimes difficult to locate what you need. I also have the "Perfect Pond" book on order and have downloaded the USDA pond construction pdf file.

I am getting a Kubota L5740 with fel and 9' bh (18" bucket). I know from the posts that you can't move much dirt with this and you are better off hiring someone with the right equipment, but my question is how do I calculate how long it would take to build a given size pond. I don't mind setting my sights really low on the size, but would like to have the experience of building it myself, at least one time. I may end up having a "real" pond built later or have this one enlarged by a professional, but would like to do it myself for the experience and as a way to learn my new equipment.

I don't want to build a dam because that worries me from a safety perspective, so I would plan on excavating 100% as from what I've read there isn't much risk with this type of pond and it is pretty straightforward compared to an impoundment. My other criteria would be I'd like to be able to support fish and even do a little fishing, if possible. From the USDA guide, I can estimate the amount of dirt that would need to be moved. So, from all your experiences out there, how many cubit feet of dirt can I expect to be able to move per hour with my equipment? And, what would be the smallest size pond that would support fish/fishing. I'm assuming I'd need a depth of 6-9' for where I live in SC.

Regarding site location, I have mainly clay and there are other dug ponds in the area, so it should hold water fine. I have a natural spring on the property that stays wet all year long, but I'm not sure how to take advantage of that and still have the hole dry enough to safely dig at the same time (I plan to read up on that as I'm sure the book and pdf has info on that). Also, on the western edge of the property there is a very small creek that has water most of the year - not sure how to or whether to tie into this.

I'm attaching a satellite picture of the property, which is 35 acres in total. Thanks in advance for your input.

Dave

 

[MarkV]

Dave how much dirt you can more per hour is going to depend on so many variables I don't think you can get a definitive answer. How far are you moving it? What type of soil? Rocks? How muddy are the conditions? You get the idea. What I will say is plan on twice as long as you think.

As far as size to support fish it somewhat depends on the type of fish and how many you want to support. A friend here has a small, maybe 25'x25' foot pond about 10' deep that is full of cat fish. During our drought last year the pond had less than a foot of water in it and the catfish survived. Bass and most other fish would die off in those conditions but cat fish are hard to kill.

I'd say start digging and enjoy the new equipment. If it don't work out start filling and enjoy the new equipment.

MarkV

 

[meadowlarkponds]

Dave,

One of the keys to a successful excavation-type pond is an adequate source of water...either naturally or provided via well. Excavated ponds don't catch the run-off that embankment ponds receive and hence this factor is critical. If you are ok on that, then there's no reason you can't build it yourself and have a successful pond...just takes time and effort to build.

If you know how to calculate how much dirt has to be removed, then you are a long ways toward getting an estimated time to complete with your equipment. To figure the rate at which you can move dirt, the best way is to actually measure it, as precisely as you can and under the same conditions as nearly as you can. Measure it in clay under the same working conditions you expect to build the pond under. Then multiply to get the amount you estimated and you have your total estimate. Add some more for contingency such as weather and some for clean-up and you should hit it pretty close.

Now, let's talk about fish. You will hear stories and read in books about how you can grow huge fish and catch one on every cast in ponds...most of those stories are from folks who are trying to make money getting you to buy their products.

The real story on fish depends on the size of the pond and how you go about managing it.

If you have a pond less than 1 acre, largemouth bass(LMB) are not usually recommended. For those smaller ponds, a combo of bluegill (BG) or hybrid BG and catfish is usually the best bet for those who just want a place to fish and not much management work. You can have a LMB pond in less than 1 acre, I've built 2 of them, but it requires somewhat intensive management.

For ponds over 1 acre, you have more flexibility, including LMB. However, to avoid crashed expectations, you should understand that fishing pressure has a huge effect on catchability of fish in small ponds. If you plan to fish infrequently and have over 1 acre of water, you can have a pretty good LMB pond. If you plan to fish often, you can expect the LMB fishing to be very tough.

I hope I've provided you some useful information and wish you the best in your project. Building your own pond, stocking it yourself, raising the fish, catching the fish, and eating the fish are some of the most rewarding activities you can experience.

 

[EddieWalker]

I can't compare to Meadowlarks knowledge on fish, heck, he's the one who came to my place and told me what I could put in my small pond and that it would support fish. Two years later, and we're catching catfish like crazy!!!

As for the digging it yourself, the biggest factor is how far will you have to move the dirt that you take out? The actuall digging will go fairly quickly. But what will you do with the dirt?

Hauling it with your FEL is very slow. Hauling it any distance at all is EXTREMELY SLOW!!!!!

When I dug my small pond with my backhoe, I soon realized that I was running out of time before the rains started, so to speed things up, I started dumping the dirt right next to the pond. I had close to a thousand yards of dirt there by the time it started raining and I gave up on digging anymore. Then I spent another year removing that pile. I did it off and on, so that's why it took so long, but finding a place to put it and get it there with a one yard bucket was also a big factor.

After I was done digging and cleaning up the shorline, I spent the next few years figuring out ways to get more rain runoff into it. I've built up roads, cut ditches and installed culverts all over the place to catch and channel water to that pond. I'm now at the point where one inch of rain will raise my water level 6 inches. I'm comfortable with that, but I'm also out of areas to catch anymore water.

In that 3/4 acre pond, which is 100% dug out, no dam, I have channel catfish and coppernose bluegill for catching, and fathead minnows for them to feed on. We also through out floating catfish food every evening.

With the size tractor you will be using, plan on taking a few years to do this. After the initial enthusiasm dies down some, it will become work. Rains will slow you down, or totally stop you for awhile. Having a pump to lower the water level so you can keep on working will be very important too. I bought mine on ebay for a good price, but found the hoses to be cheaper at Northern Tool.

Do it right and you will be amazed at what you have accomplished. Cut corners and you will be disapointed in what you end up with.

Eddie

 

[Foozle]

Thanks for the advice so far. Regarding some of the questions, I have a fair amount of low spots very nearby on my property, so I can probably dump the dirt within a few hundred yards at most.

The soil is mainly clay with a far amount of rock, so might be slow digging. I did some looking around again and I do have a small water flow through a wet area that is next to a slope, but I don't have a slope on the other side of the flow, so if I did go the impoundment route, it would make a fairly large pond, but would require a dam/berm the entire length of the pond. I suppose it would still be less digging than a 100% excavated pond, but would require more expertise to setup. There is a large creek just down slope of that area that would absorb the water if the dam would happen to break and no other houses or anything, so might be worth a shot. If I go that route, I'd have to bring a contractor in, I imagine.

My next step is to get a professional in to take a look around and then I can decide whether to do the small project myself or bite the bullet and have it done by a professional.

Thanks,

Dave

 

[philbuilt]

In how big of a rush are you to see this pond? Try setting up a rental laser or if you have help use a transit. Shoot some grades, the will help with the plan. I dug my pond during the dry season and was able to move allot of dirt in a little time. I rented the largest track hoe available that weekend and spent 16hrs in it. I sorted the topsoil to sell as well. I was rewarded with a nice pond and about 200 hrs of seat time moving the spoils. The pond is far from finished and will be a work in progress. the plan is to double it in size before I will call it complete.
Phil

 

[Foozle]

In how big of a rush are you to see this pond? Try setting up a rental laser or if you have help use a transit. Shoot some grades, the will help with the plan. I dug my pond during the dry season and was able to move allot of dirt in a little time. I rented the largest track hoe available that weekend and spent 16hrs in it. I sorted the topsoil to sell as well. I was rewarded with a nice pond and about 200 hrs of seat time moving the spoils. The pond is far from finished and will be a work in progress. the plan is to double it in size before I will call it complete.
Phil

Not in too big a hurry. Between the pond, barn building and other stuff, I may be better of buying a laser. At least then I can take my time and not be rushed by the rental.

Does your pond have a dam? If so, did you construct it yourself and was it your first experience with this?

Thanks

 

[dirtworksequip]

Foozle, from what I understand you are going to build a small pond with your tractor and then at sometime later redo the original pond and enlarge it. I don't want to put a damper on your project,but doing the redo is a bad idea. You are just creating way more work. Its twice as hard to redo a pond than to just do it the way you want it in the first place. Also carrying material a few hundred yards is not practical............you will soon see after you start moving dirt and trying to carry material that far that its just not working. Dug ponds are also a lot easier to constuct than a pond with a dam, because you just have to get rid of the material and don't have to spend time compacting the material into the dam structure. From what it sounds like you would be better off renting a track loader or tracked skid steer to do your pond. Use your tractor/hoe for the other work needed in building the pond,but not for the actual excavation.

One word of advice to remember: "The key to building a pond is to keep it perfectly dry when you are building it." even a little amount of water will cause you big problems.

Sincerely, Dirt

You can did a pretty big hole with a tracked skidsteer. You tractor will not be able to work the slopes properly.

 

[EddieWalker]

Dirt,

That's an awesome picture!!!!!

Eddie

 

[philbuilt]

Foozle,
I don't have a dam, I dug down. My second phase is to rent a large dozer and trackhoe and move allot of dirt beside my pond. The dirt will have to be moved about 300' from the far point. will dig this part down about 10' deeper. Again this will be done in the fall at the lowest water level and driest time.

Dirt,
I like that machine and I'm trying to justify one for the sign shop. How much damage does it do to Lawns? My current skid steer has R-4 tires and seem to do okay.