FEL works off remotes

   #1  

bsekf

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I have a Kubota 7030 with FEL. The loader works off one set of remotes, so when using it the three point and the other remotes won't work. Is that normal? In other words there is no way to use the loader and a back blade at the same time.
 
   #3  

Henro

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I have a Kubota 7030 with FEL. The loader works off one set of remotes, so when using it the three point and the other remotes won't work. Is that normal? In other words there is no way to use the loader and a back blade at the same time.
I think you should refine your question as it is not clear what you are asking.

I have a loader and sometime a box blade or back blade on the 3ph. Never been a problem. Actually, since normally I have one hand on the steering wheel, I can only operate either the 3PH implement, OR the loader, with the other free hand.

Now many or perhaps all Kubota tractors use a power beyond hydraulic circuit. This is a loop that passes through all the control valves. When a valve is activated, some or all of the hydraulic flow is diverted.

If all the flow is diverted, anything down stream will receive no flow, so will not operate. If only part of the hydraulic flow is diverted, some continues on and can cause a different hydraulic device to operate, but at a slower rate than it would if it were operated alone and received total hydraulic flow.

Edit: I think, but do not know for sure, that the 3PH is often the first hydraulic control in the power beyond loop. So if you were operating the 3 PH and taking full hydraulic flow from the power beyond loop, then nothing down stream would work until you released the 3PH control lever. Personally, I have never found a need to operate my loader and 3PH at the same time.
 
   #5  

skipmarcy

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I'm not sure about your set up but MOST FELs I've come across were plumbed straight to the hydraulic supply of the tractor and then a power beyond port fed any other hydraulics such as rear remotes. That's the way my Mahindra came for sure.
 
   #6  

nybirdman

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Sounds like the FEL was added later(previous owner?) and tried to save some money by not installing the valve that controls the FEL.
 
   #7  

LD1

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The valve that controls the FEL has to be there....otherwise it would use more than one remote. Sounds like they are simply supplying the loader with the remote....and either leaving it active in detent, or using a bungee.

And yes that would be normal that nothing downstream will work.

The 3PH is usually LAST in line, not first in a PB loop.

IS this an aftermarket loader? or an actual kubota loader?

IF a remote is supplying the loader valve....then the return is likely also going back to the same remote. What is the PB off the loader valve tied to. (should be nothing in this setup).

Might just require a re-plumb. Post some pictures or a sketch of what hoses go where.

IF its plumbed like I suspect....simply take the hose that is currently supplying the remote valve and move it to supply the loader. Make a new hose to go from loader PB to the remote valve where you just removed its supply. Then ADD a hose to go from loader return back to tank. This can TEE in to an existing tank line.

Your CURRENT remote valve should be plumbed with 3 hoses (not counting the ones going to the couplers).
The supply (P) port you are removing and putting to the loader valve. And it should have a PB and a T line coming off it. LEave the PB hose alone....but you can follow the T (tank) line to see where on that line is a suitable place to TEE into for the loader return to tank line.
 
   #8  

Henro

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I'm not sure about your set up but MOST FELs I've come across were plumbed straight to the hydraulic supply of the tractor and then a power beyond port fed any other hydraulics such as rear remotes. That's the way my Mahindra came for sure.

That could be, but then would it matter? That would just make the loader the first device in the power beyond circuit. Net effect would be the same, but in that case the loader would be the primary device.

All depends on what the flow direction is, and where one device is tapped in compared to others in the circuit.
 
   #9  

Henro

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The valve that controls the FEL has to be there....otherwise it would use more than one remote. Sounds like they are simply supplying the loader with the remote....and either leaving it active in detent, or using a bungee.

And yes that would be normal that nothing downstream will work.

The 3PH is usually LAST in line, not first in a PB loop.

IS this an aftermarket loader? or an actual kubota loader?

IF a remote is supplying the loader valve....then the return is likely also going back to the same remote. What is the PB off the loader valve tied to. (should be nothing in this setup).

Might just require a re-plumb. Post some pictures or a sketch of what hoses go where.

IF its plumbed like I suspect....simply take the hose that is currently supplying the remote valve and move it to supply the loader. Make a new hose to go from loader PB to the remote valve where you just removed its supply. Then ADD a hose to go from loader return back to tank. This can TEE in to an existing tank line.

Your CURRENT remote valve should be plumbed with 3 hoses (not counting the ones going to the couplers).
The supply (P) port you are removing and putting to the loader valve. And it should have a PB and a T line coming off it. LEave the PB hose alone....but you can follow the T (tank) line to see where on that line is a suitable place to TEE into for the loader return to tank line.

Granted, it does not matter if the 3PH valve is first or last in the hydraulic circuit. OR even if in the middle somewhere.

But if the OP's tractor works normally, then the power beyond circuit must be functioning properly in the neutral state.

So I think it gets back to what the question the OP is asking actually is.
 

LD1

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Granted, it does not matter if the 3PH valve is first or last in the hydraulic circuit. OR even if in the middle somewhere.

But if the OP's tractor works normally, then the power beyond circuit must be functioning properly in the neutral state.

So I think it gets back to what the question the OP is asking actually is.
Not sure what you are even saying or why you are quoting me.

The tractor clearly don't work normally, hence the question being asked.

You have stated twice now that you don't understand what the OP is asking and he needs to refine his question.

To me it's clear what he's asking. I understand what he is saying. And only waiting on him to respond to provide clarification on how his tractor is plumbed....to offer the best advise about how to remedy.
 

LouNY

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I have a Kubota 7030 with FEL. The loader works off one set of remotes, so when using it the three point and the other remotes won't work. Is that normal? In other words there is no way to use the loader and a back blade at the same time.
If the loader is connected to one pair of rear remotes, then as has been mentioned it must either be detented or bungied to stay in an operating position. And, if so correct the other valve and the 3 point would not work until the valve for the loader is returned to the center position.
As with any open center system when one valve is fully in service nothing down stream of that valve will function.
So to use the loader and a back blade at the same time it can be done you just can only adjust one at a time.
 
  
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bsekf

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It is a after market FEL and I do have to bungee the handle back for the FEL to work, and it works properly. With the loader remote centered, everything else works. It sounds as if there is nothing wrong with my unit.
 

LD1

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It is a after market FEL and I do have to bungee the handle back for the FEL to work, and it works properly. With the loader remote centered, everything else works. It sounds as if there is nothing wrong with my unit.
No there is nothing wrong....it is working exactly as designed.

However ...it is less than ideal and an easy remedy if you want to free up the remote and be able to use other functions while doing loader work.
 

Henro

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No there is nothing wrong....it is working exactly as designed.

However ...it is less than ideal and an easy remedy if you want to free up the remote and be able to use other functions while doing loader work.

Still trying to figure out how one uses another function simultaneously when doing loader work, if he does not have three arms...In my case it is one hand on the steering wheel, and the other on the loader control. Would need a third arm to work a remote while driving the tractor and working the loader.

A third-function button on the loader control would be an exception...

Glad the OP seems to feel his question was answered.
 

LD1

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Still trying to figure out how one uses another function simultaneously when doing loader work, if he does not have three arms...In my case it is one hand on the steering wheel, and the other on the loader control. Would need a third arm to work a remote while driving the tractor and working the loader.

A third-function button on the loader control would be an exception...

Glad the OP seems to feel his question was answered.
With his loader on the remotes....he has to keep the remote active via a bungee cord for the loader to work.

Even when NOT actively using the loader, with that remote energized.. nothing else works.

Imagine spreading dirt with the loader while also wanting to use a rear blade or box blade. Having to constantly activate the remote and deactivate it to switch from loader to 3ph. That is his dilemma.
 

CADplans

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He needs to convert the loader to a "power beyond" valve, and correctly connect the PB valve to the tractor.
then, everything will be "live", but, still will not be able to all be used at the same time,,
 

Henro

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With his loader on the remotes....he has to keep the remote active via a bungee cord for the loader to work.

Even when NOT actively using the loader, with that remote energized.. nothing else works.

Imagine spreading dirt with the loader while also wanting to use a rear blade or box blade. Having to constantly activate the remote and deactivate it to switch from loader to 3ph. That is his dilemma.

IF that is the case, I missed it. I thought he said he did not need to use a bungee cord. My bad I guess...

Still, regardless of the situation, I can't imagine how I would use the loader AND a remote at the same time, if I were actually operating the tractor and doing useful work.
 

Henro

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He needs to convert the loader to a "power beyond" valve, and correctly connect the PB valve to the tractor.
then, everything will be "live", but, still will not be able to all be used at the same time,,
You know, what is funny in my mind, is that I tried to understand the OP's question, and I am still not sure I do...And without understanding the original question the suggested solutions do not register when I read them.

Do not even have insight into what the OP's loader valve might be...

In my case, I already had a loader in a power beyond circuit, so when I installed my four remotes, I just used a valve that would be compatible with the power beyond concept.
 

LD1

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You know, what is funny in my mind, is that I tried to understand the OP's question, and I am still not sure I do...And without understanding the original question the suggested solutions do not register when I read them.

Do not even have insight into what the OP's loader valve might be...

In my case, I already had a loader in a power beyond circuit, so when I installed my four remotes, I just used a valve that would be compatible with the power beyond concept.
Post 12 is where he mentions bungee.

But running a loader off a remote....the remote HAS to be engaged. So I figured it was either a bungee....or is remote had a detent.

Not....it's not practical to use both the loader and 3ph at exactly the same time.

But even if it was a detent valve....imagine having to reach for that lever to either engage or disengage it prior switching between using the loader or 3ph.

So when he says he cannot use them both at the same time.....he means he simply cannot take his hand off the loader control...place it on the 3ph lever...and have it operate. Cause it won't.....not without deactivating the remote. And then....after raising the blade from feathering out a pile of dirt ...you simply can't just reach up and have the loader work. Because you have to first reactivate the remote.

I can see where it would be a major PITA. But it's a simple fix if the OP ever cares to change it
 

jyoutz

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He needs to convert the loader to a "power beyond" valve, and correctly connect the PB valve to the tractor.
then, everything will be "live", but, still will not be able to all be used at the same time,,
I can operate my 3ph and loader at the same time with my new MX and my old JD was the same. Never seen a tractor where this wasn’t possible.
 

CADplans

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I can operate my 3ph and loader at the same time with my new MX and my old JD was the same. Never seen a tractor where this wasn’t possible.
Are you saying that those two tractors are typical of all tractors??

I have seen tractors with the "backhoe" on the front..

When someone does an aftermarket install of a loader, they can plumb it as they wish.
I have seen tractors that needed quick couplers changed if the loader was to be used, and swapped again for the 3 point hitch to work.
That does not make it right, nor does it make it impossible,,
 

jyoutz

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Are you saying that those two tractors are typical of all tractors??

I have seen tractors with the "backhoe" on the front..

When someone does an aftermarket install of a loader, they can plumb it as they wish.
I have seen tractors that needed quick couplers changed if the loader was to be used, and swapped again for the 3 point hitch to work.
That does not make it right, nor does it make it impossible,,
I think it’s typical of dealer installed tractor/loaders based on factory specs. I was responding to several post that stated they wouldn’t operate at the same time.
 

LouNY

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I can operate my 3ph and loader at the same time with my new MX and my old JD was the same. Never seen a tractor where this wasn’t possible.
I guess it depends on what you mean by both working at the same time.
If you are just barely cracking a FEL valve with a light load and raising the 3ph with a light load OK.
If you are dumping and slowly curling down to spread some gravel and trying to lift a heavy load on the 3 pt with an open center tractor not going to work very well. If your Deere was an older one with a closed center system it is possible.
Or if you are just lowering the 3 pt while using a FEL that will work.
 

mark48

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I have an 81 M4000..with a Bushhog 2400QT. The M4000 does not have dedicated remote hydraulics, you have to switch between 3 point and remote or install a PTO pump and reservoir to supply the FEL...Bushhog did supply the entire system once upon a time. I haven't checked to see if it's still available..... I've made do for 27 years. The lever to select is under seal and I use a bunge coord to secure when using loader.....
 

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I believe LD1 and others have flushed out enough info that we pretty well know how the OP FEL is plumbed.
He needs to convert the loader to a "power beyond" valve, and correctly connect the PB valve to the tractor.
then, everything will be "live", but, still will not be able to all be used at the same time,,
I agree, that's what I would do, but as my 3yr old daughter once said when pressured by teasing Uncles "Everybody has their own way of doing things."

Henro: the OP is only having to dork with the Remote handle (tying it ON with a bungy in this case) because his FEL is plumbed from the remote and it has to be activated in order for the FEL to function.

In my view the FEL loader valve should be fed by "power beyond" and not from a remote. That means the high pressure from the main hyd pump feeds both the loader valve and the remotes block of other (open center) valves. That way using any one of his remotes for whatever purpose does not totally interrupt use of his FEL. In that configuration the loader valve should have a relief valve too.

I do not know the M7030 enough to say, but my MF of similar HP uses a separate pump for the 3pt hitch and steering such that the main pump flow is not affected by them. If the M7030 has only one pump to serve all those functions, then either there are diversion valves to split flow allowing multiple ops to occur simultaneously at reduced flows OR it is "one track minded" where only one pressure-forced action can occur at a time.
 

Henro

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Henro: the OP is only having to dork with the Remote handle (tying it ON with a bungy in this case) because his FEL is plumbed from the remote and it has to be activated in order for the FEL to function.

Embarrassed to say that after going back and reading post #12 for the third time, I realized my mind had inserted the word “not” in the sentence referring to the bungee cord! So I was reading the exact opposite of what was stated. Makes sense now…my bad.
 
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bsekf

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Thank you all! This tractor is new to me and I was just making sure it was working correctly and it is. I understand how I could replumb and have everything work together, however the way I use the tractor I can live with being the "one armed paperhanger" once in a while.

Again, thank you all.

Bill
 
 
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