First post intro and a couple questions

[CharlieVT]

Hi, my first post. Thanks for the forum, lots of help found in reading old threads.
Bought a new Mahindra mostly for haying with old Ford small bale square bailer, and skidding logs with a Uniforest skidding winch.

A couple of questions about a New Mahindra 6065, less than 10 hours on it so far:
Electro-hydraulic shuttle has been slow to engage clutch when shifting from neutral to forward. Now that the weather is colder it is much worse. When cold the clutch will slip and there will be no forward movement unless in a low gear on level ground. Eventually, as the tractor warms up, the clutch stops slipping and engages quicker. But it isn't good; I fear the clutch will prematurely wear and the slow engagement is frustrating as I am used to a manual clutch/gear tranny.

This delay/slipping doesn't happen when shifting shuttle into reverse. The clutch engages right away, and doesn't slip in reverse. This is a new machine and I expect this will be a warranty item, but I'm trying to understand what is going on. I suspect a sticky electro-hydraulic solenoid, but I don't have a service or parts manual for the tractor yet so I don't have any idea what the problem might be. And if it is an easy fix, I'll do it myself rather than dealing with the dealer over the issue.

Has anyone had a similar problem, and if so, what was the fix?

Thanks in advance for any comments.

 

[thepumpguysc]

I'm sure your manual would have a spec for the type of oil that goes in it & maybe it changes from summer to winter.??
Or your dealer service dept would know..
That seems to be "the fix" for the diesel guys w/ older equipment when running sluggish in winter..

 

[Thomas]

:welcome: to TBN...enjoy.

 

[bridge4]

Welcome! On my much smaller 2638 HST shifting can be a little bit of a trick as well, lots of guys seem to find the same. I have noticed flat ground is the best way to engage 4wd, shift or even get the PTO going. Not sure the reason but that seems to help a lot.

Hopefully you get it straightened out and enjoy the tractor! I have changed all my fluids to synthetics and more expensive stuff than the manual recommends and have been very happy with the results. Plenty of people think its a waste though, so up to you to decide I guess!

 

[CharlieVT]

Now - Mahindra 6065 cold weather electro-hydraulic shuttle malfunction

Thanks for the replies, Gents.

I stopped by my dealer and talked with the owner this AM. Explained my "problem". He understood what I was talking about immediately.
He said that Mahindra actually has a "fix". He described Mahindra's solution, a by-pass hydraulic hose. He said Mahindra was sending him some, but he could make them up too.

At first I didn't really understand what he was describing, and he walked me out to a similar tractor on his lot to mine (a 6075 Cab).
Once he showed me what the connections would be, I understood right away. It is just a simple jumper from rear hydraulic output to input to cycle the hydraulic fluid. All it would do is warm the tranny/hydraulic fluid up faster.
(Dealer is a nice guy, but I didn't really expect a great solution. I expected to be told: "Yes, that's normal." or "I've never heard of that before." I'm cynical that way; I've been around too long.)

You could do the same thing as the Mahindra by-pass hose by simply running the front end loader up and down, or just holding the joy stick at a cylinder limit and let the fluid run through the by-pass valves; that'll warm it up.
That Mahindra is supplying dealers with a such a "fix" tells me that they engineered the shuttle hydraulics on this model (6065 and 6075) so that it is very intolerant of colder temps.

I regard the by-pass hose as a "band aid" fix. A proper fix would be to reengineer and replace the hydraulic circuit components of the electro-hydraulic shuttle so that there is enough fluid flow so that the system actually works when the tractor is started. I suspect Mahindra will actually modify later years of these models, but for those of us with these model years, unless we find our own fix, we are stuck with extended warm up times before the tractor is operable in colder weather.

I still don't understand why the problem manifests itself in forward, but not reverse; that has to be related to the shortcomings in the engineering.

The owner's manual for my Mahindra 6065 doesn't specify different transmission/hydraulic fluid for warm and cold seasons. There is only a seasonal difference specified for crankcase oil. My tractor manual specifies m-UTTO 2 (80W) or Warren THF Purple. (Universal Tractor Transmission Oil is what I assume UTTO stands for.) Warren makes a fully synthetic tractor transmission oil; (I have to research that a little more on fully synthetic tractor hydraulic fluid.) My manual states the tractor was delivered with UTTO.

Changing to a fully synthetic would surely help, but it is a 15 gallon fluid change and the tractor, being brand new, isn't due for a fluid change for many hours.

For now, I have a magnetic oil pan heater which I will stick on the tranny sump. (I already have a block heater installed). I will cycle oil through the loader hydraulic circuits for a few minutes before driving the tractor. We'll see if that helps with getting the clutch to engage better. If I still have problems, I'll bite the bullet and buy 15 gallons of full synthetic and see how much that helps.

I knew that some HSTs are slow to function in the cold, but didn't really think about it when I bought this PST (Power Shuttle Transmission). It is basically a standard gear transmission, but with a hydraulically operated forward and reverse shuttle that obviates the need to depress the manual clutch. I'd have been happy with a mechanical shuttle and standard clutch.

Again, thanks for the replies. I'll post my results when I've had a little more experience with "pre-heating" the tranny fluid.

 

[RNeumann]

The hydraulic fluid will make a big difference both from what I’ve read and seen. I’m guessing it’s fairly cold where you are at. I’d hit up a co-op or heavy equipment parts place around you. They will have fluid that works well in your climate and doesn’t break the bank. In N Idaho the local shop sold DELO. It has been good in my HST. A little whine when it first starts, if I don’t give it a 30” or so. But after that it’s perfect. The stories of folks changing fluid to something and having bad results like you describe are somewhat common.

 

[steve stiller]

I also have this problem and it just started doing it. Live in western pa and in October 60-70 degrees. it started doing this in forward or reverse. Just got it back from dealership as mahrindra authorized changing oil to a lighter fluid and I wasn’t happy as it wasn’t cold. Band aid fix at best. Well got it home and it wouldn’t back off trailer. Doesn’t matter if I cycled bucket for a little bit. Let it sit for 10 minutes then it was fine. Anyone else found a cure. And mahrindra hasn’t said anything about rerouting hose and dealer is to call them Monday.

 

[CharlieVT]

Steve, Please keep us posted on what you learn from your dealer and Mahindra on this.

What I have done: I bought a dip stick oil heater. I remove the tranny fill/vent cap from the tranny (back between the lift arms of the TPH) and put the dipstick heater in. Angled forward and to the right, the dipstick goes all the way in and is submerged in several inches of hydraulic fluid.

I leave that plugged in. I still have to let the tractor warm up a little, and cycle fluid by holding the bucket joystick in the tilt up position so hydraulic fluid cycles though the by-pass valve. That seems to warm it up pretty quickly. In doing this, I can get the shuttle working properly in under 10 minutes or so.

I was running the PTO with the PTO switch on and the PTO gear engaged, which was a "hands off" way off cycling the hydraulic fluid, but I have since attached my skidding winch to the PTO and I don't want to leave the winch running just to warm up the hydraulic fluid, so I'm not doing that anymore. But if you don't have an implement on the PTO, that's one way to help warm the hydraulic fluid a little faster without sitting and holding the joystick.

I usually figure out the mechanicals of my machines, but I don't understand the location or mechanism of this shuttle system yet. That said, I suspect it isn't easy to get to, and a "remove and replace" of components in the shuttle actuator system could involve a lot of labor. Mahindra isn't going to do that under warranty if they can avoid it.

My hope is that as the tractor "wears in" a little, and perhaps with a change to synthetic hydraulic fluid things will become "normal", meaning the shuttle will work as soon as the engine is reasonably warmed up.

Here is a quote from my owner's manual: "For implements/loader attachments, use only the recommended oils. Do not mix different brand of oils as it may cause performance deterioration especially at lower ambient temperature." This tells me Mahindra knows that their systems are sensitive to increased viscosity.

 

[steve stiller]

Update. Pulled tractor into my repair shop. I own stiller Motorsports. So it’s sitting in 70 degrees for 14 hours, again mahrindra told dealer to replace with low temp fluid. . Fire it up and hit reverse. Nothing, tractor moved less than 1/4” then sat there. Again I’m in low range and low gear. So I cycled bucket few times and motor just purred with no load. Had 4 of my employees push on bucket and push back a few feet and it started to move on its own sluggish. So I’m waiting for dealer to call mahrindra Monday. Not a happy camper. Second mahrindra with issues. This tractor is a 6075 non cab shuttle shift

 

[CharlieVT]

Update. Pulled tractor into my repair shop. I own stiller Motorsports. So it’s sitting in 70 degrees for 14 hours, again mahrindra told dealer to replace with low temp fluid. . Fire it up and hit reverse. Nothing, tractor moved less than 1/4” then sat there. Again I’m in low range and low gear. So I cycled bucket few times and motor just purred with no load. Had 4 of my employees push on bucket and push back a few feet and it started to move on its own sluggish. So I’m waiting for dealer to call mahrindra Monday. Not a happy camper. Second mahrindra with issues. This tractor is a 6075 non cab shuttle shift

Thanks for the update. Good luck. Keep us posted? Thanks.
What year is your Mahindra 6075?
Yours is basically same tractor as mine but mine has the smaller motor (6065 non cab shuttle shift, new in 2019, still on my first tank of diesel fuel).
Your symptoms are very similar to mine just much more severe. And yours sound like it got progressively worse. My came with the problem at delivery.
Very disappointing to hear fluid change did not fix your problem.

I wonder if a little moisture got into you original THF (tractor hydraulic fluid), that would increase viscosity. And maybe with lots of circulation of well warmed up THF some "junk" will be flushed out of the sensitive shuttle shift valving; most likely that is wishful thinking...