Ford 1700 3 pt lift problem

   / Ford 1700 3 pt lift problem #102  
I'm thinking something like this would work. What do you think?

I like it on principal (y). How are you going to mount and plumb it? I wondered if you can remove the guts out of your relief device, plug the relief to the tank on the relief valve and then plumb the relief of this device to return to diffy using the square top plug on the diffy cover as pictured below. That could be done with a 3/8" high pressure hose. in that way, you keep the oem relief to cover all the holes on the side of the cover but can only act as a passage way to supply oil to the lift spool. I think that's doable. What do you think?

That square plug on the left and lower than the gauge just opens up to diffy so that could be perfectly used to return to tank.

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PS. Can't argue with the price. Anything old and oem will be more expensive and may not be as good as your damaged one.
 
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   / Ford 1700 3 pt lift problem #103  
The block between the old relief valve and the cover is configured so the oil can enter the 3-point control valve from one of it's ports. So oil from pump goes to the built-in relief valve on the loader valve. The oil leaves the loader valve through the new relief valve and goes to the power steering and then goes to the 3-point control valve through that block. That's the way I have it plumbed now, except without the new relief valve.

It occurs to me now writing this that the protection of the new relief valve may not be felt by the 3-point control valve after passing through the power steering. So the new relief valve probably has to be between the power steering and the 3-point control valve--if it's all in series.

I had thought the new relief valve should be mounted on the loader valve outlet. It's 3/4 pipe like the new relief valve. So it could T out of the new relief and go to the power steering and also to the 3-point--both of them dumping back into the diff. I think I like this configuration best.
 
   / Ford 1700 3 pt lift problem #104  
he block between the old relief valve and the cover is configured so the oil can enter the 3-point control valve from one of it's ports. So oil from pump goes to the built-in relief valve on the loader valve. The oil leaves the loader valve through the new relief valve and goes to the power steering and then goes to the 3-point control valve through that block. That's the way I have it plumbed now, except without the new relief valve.
ok. The first relief valve is to protect the pump and also adjusting the system pressure desired. if power steering as you plumbed has a lower pressure rating then your 3-pont would suffer some only as far as lifting capability. if it lifts , even slowly your heaviest implement then it will be okay in my estimation.

It occurs to me now writing this that the protection of the new relief valve may not be felt by the 3-point control valve after passing through the power steering. So the new relief valve probably has to be between the power steering and the 3-point control valve--if it's all in series.

I think in series then the lowest on will rule... activate first and higher one can not dump.

I had thought the new relief valve should be mounted on the loader valve outlet. It's 3/4 pipe like the new relief valve. So it could T out of the new relief and go to the power steering and also to the 3-point--both of them dumping back into the diff. I think I like this configuration best.
it sounds about right without seeing it in person. I posted a picture that shows 2 balls and check valve on the lift cylinder head and the one on the right with the stiffer and longer spring is the "Shock Relief" to protect lift piston seal. You already have a relief there.like i said your oem main relif was to protect the pump and nothing else.
 
   / Ford 1700 3 pt lift problem #105  
After several failures plumbing the new relief valve in, I tried it with only the loader and 3-point and got good results with both. The attached diagram gets everything to work. The 3-point and power steering work fine, but the loader is slow and jerky. I think the power steering may be the fault because it runs through 1/4 inch connections and everything else is 3/8.

I have tried running the power steering off of a T, but the the return line went to the transmission and nothing worked unless the steering wheel was turned slightly.


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   / Ford 1700 3 pt lift problem #106  
After several failures plumbing the new relief valve in, I tried it with only the loader and 3-point and got good results with both. The attached diagram gets everything to work. The 3-point and power steering work fine, but the loader is slow and jerky. I think the power steering may be the fault because it runs through 1/4 inch connections and everything else is 3/8.

I have tried running the power steering off of a T, but the the return line went to the transmission and nothing worked unless the steering wheel was turned slightly.


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Ok. I see. overall you have to have the relief after the pump. Saying that if the loader valve has a relief that is set about or lower than the main relief i Think it is okay specially when that relief over pressure is routed back to the tank. Power steering require less flow so 1/4" probably is okay and then 3/8" for the rest. what happens when you steered and stationary and then use the loader , is it jerky then also? any possibility of having trapped air in the loader cylinders? on my kubota I have actually two pumps with a common input shaft. the smaller pump is for pto and power steering so it is dedicated from loader and 3 point. I know if on one circuit they will have a priority valve to separate the circuits a bit. your situation is like having shower and a flush valve for the toilet on same circuit where one can affect both if used simultaneously.

I think I would just be okay with it as long as it works.

On a separate item, we were trying to figure out the wallowed hole in the relief device. I kept all the old hyd part from when I overhauled my pump in a coffee can. I went and looked at what i had. A that time my NH dealer was close and the counter part lady was very nice and they had everything in stock. I ended up buying a seat for the relief device in case i needed it. it was very cheap, the dang thing now is $146, can you believe that? Anywho, I ended up not using it, so I took a close look at it. As the pic might show below there is a conical seat on the inside that faces the wallowed hole. it is perfectly round and conical against the poppet and unless the tip of the poppet hits the body of the valve, don't know what else could have messed the hole? the poppet is hardened where the body of relief device is not. At any rate it should not matter as the seat and poppet are doing over pressure control. I just let the relief be. As an assembly that relief is $460, yikes.

One question, what fluctuation do you at the gauge when you raise the 3 points all the way up and down, loader up and down and curl all the way while steering? if under all those condition the pressure does not exceed 2000 psi I think you are good. Damaging the pump is not the last thing you need to do.


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   / Ford 1700 3 pt lift problem #107  
Earlier, I took a close look at that relief valve seat and it looked in good condition--definitely cone-shaped. I thought that the ragged hole and surrounding area may be allowing oil to get around the seat. I was still able to hear that valve making some noise while trying to figure out the best way to configure the new plumbing. I adjusted it all the way down, and that did not stop the noise until I added an O-ring under the seat.

The gauge never exceeds 1600 psi that way it is set. With normal use, it is usually under 500 psi.

I will go try to crank the steering while raising the loader and see what happens.
 
   / Ford 1700 3 pt lift problem #108  
Earlier, I took a close look at that relief valve seat and it looked in good condition--definitely cone-shaped. I thought that the ragged hole and surrounding area may be allowing oil to get around the seat. I was still able to hear that valve making some noise while trying to figure out the best way to configure the new plumbing. I adjusted it all the way down, and that did not stop the noise until I added an O-ring under the seat.

The gauge never exceeds 1600 psi that way it is set. With normal use, it is usually under 500 psi.

I will go try to crank the Goodwhile raising the loader and see what happens.
Good , I think you are gaining on it. As long as it works and now you are well aware of the limitation. If 1600 psi picks up your heaviest 3 point load then there is no reason to exceed it. Remember lift piston has a relief on the piston head which is a good thing when you hit a bump or depression as you drive with a heavy load on the back. it just momentarily releases some pressure spike and then pump will fill it right back. persistence almost always pays, good job.

P.S. good idea to put an oring to seal the back of the relief against the seat to limit leak by, something to remember.
 
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   / Ford 1700 3 pt lift problem #109  
After trying it out again, everything seems to be working fine--loader is faster and not jerking. One strange thing happened, while cranking the wheel all the way, and trying to lower the loader, it went up instead--somehow getting some feedback. And when I tried to float it down, it went up and the pressure went above 2000 psi. Very strange, but not something that would normally happen.

I appreciate all the help. I really learned a lot about the hydraulic system.
 
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   / Ford 1700 3 pt lift problem #110  
Hmm , a bit strange. Flow in case of gpm or even electrical always take path of least resitance. I think what happened was increasing the pressure caused fee back on other circuit or some intenal leak in the loader spool feeding a different circuit. I think you have to draw a flow chart and look at all the possibilities and what happens when you do combination of stuff. That's why I suggested it just to to see. Would you know by any chance if your power steering has a relief ? One thing is the release pressure setting per factory is 2130 psi and I am sure it has at least %10 safety fudge with it and you are well below that. I know we were trying different things to have situational awareness and as we learn something that causes it to have heart attack, then let's try not do it. it is always good to know what "not to do". You hardly ever need to steer hard left or right and then use loader at the very same time.

You are welcome, I also learned a few or if nothing else satisfied my curiosity.
 
 
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