Ford 1710 will crank but not start

   / Ford 1710 will crank but not start #1  

grateful4

New member
Joined
May 19, 2018
Messages
11
Location
Zone 8a, Arkansas
Tractor
Kubota L2250 and Ford 1710
Just picked up this Ford 1710 and the WSM will be delivered this week. I've read a lot on this forum and I have a lot of respect for all of you.

Tractor:
Early 80's Ford 1710

Cause:
Previous owner says there was a knock, he ran it low on oil and couldnt get it started after that. (Early 70s gentleman, his first and last tractor he said, he bought it 3 months ago.)

Fluids;
1. New WIX Oil Filter
2. Fresh 15W/40 cj4 - Just over 4.5 quarts
Added
3. Just under 1 Quart Marvel Mystery Oil added to oil
4. 1/8th Quart Marvel Mystery Oil in Fuel Tank 3/4th full
5. Approx 4 oz 15W/40 in kiki fuel injection pump
6. Dumped light fuel filter residue, and maybe a little water? and replaced with the same filter

Wiring;
1. Bypassed safety relay (ignition 12v directly to the starter on key turn)
2. Cleaned ground, which is attached to 2240 QT loader that is bolted to the frame
3. Cleaned battery terminals

Parts;
1. Starter solenoid was not engaging or stuck, removed and wired directly to test battery, it unstuck and began to click.. He had replaced this and I have the old one with some damaged teeth.
2. Removed starter and tested for pop and spin. When activated on the test battery it popped and spun.
3. Reinstalled starter and solenoid

Issues:
1. Starter cranks and engine tries to start but never quite gets running
2. Bled screw above inline fuel filter, fuel came out
3. Loosened bleed screw on kiki injector pump and fuel came out solid after a bit of bubbles.
4. Loosened injectors #1 and #3, one at a time and closing afterward, then cranked to make sure fuel is flowing through them (injector #2, the middle) appears to flex a bit when trying to loosen it and I havent applied enough pressure to break the bolt and check for fuel.

What happens when I attempt to start:
1. Hold key to the left to heat glow plugs for 20sec until coil indicator glows on dash
2. Turn key to the right to start, with clutch engaged in neutral/neutral (Not necessary as relay is bypassed), and mid throttle
3. Starter engages and black exhaust comes out of the pipe as it turns over. It nearly gets to that running but doesnt quite get there.

Potential Problems:
1. Glow Plugs not actually getting hot?
> Maybe one or two work and it is trying to start on 1 or 2 cyclinders?
2. Battery not providing enough CCA?
> I can test this by running jumper cables from my truck battery? I have an x2 power battery from my truck spare in there now.. Less than 1 year old 880 CCA I believe.. A bit drained from trying to start.
3. Starter not providing enough power? I read a few ford owners with similiar models had to replace their starters often.
4. Still air in the fuel injector lines?

I am grateful for any help! This is my first post on the forum and I am a novice mechanic... I started working on my truck and tractors for the first time in my life thanks to forums like this and YouTube!
 
   / Ford 1710 will crank but not start #2  
It is possible that the Glow Plugs are not working in spite of the glowing indicator.

When I read about people having bypassed design features I get a bit nervous giving advice.
A lot of tractors have started in gear and run people over, crashed through the back wall of the garage and worse.

How about explaining why you:
1. Bypassed safety relay (ignition 12v directly to the starter on key turn)

The ignition switch is not designed to switch high amperage loads. Second, a relay or solenoid generates high voltage spikes when shutting off. The magnetic field builds up around the coil of wire and when this magnetic field collapses (when the power is shut off) back around the internal coil, a voltage spike of hundreds of volts can be produced. The relay you have bypassed would have lessened the risk of shock to you. Newer tractors now incorporate flyback diodes to help mange these high voltage spikes.

This is an illustration of a diode block used by John Deere to deal with these flyback voltages. Six diodes.
oCyCXhy.jpg


This is an example of a single flyback diode.
jXklLij.jpg


Remove any electrical connection on the Glow plugs. Measure the resistance of each GP to ground. It should be around 0.95 ohms.
Do NOT apply 12 volts directly to a glow plug. It could explode in your face.

Posting the wiring diagram when you get your WSM will be a big help.

This next photo is to show you how responsible companies like John Deere are adding relays to improve the starting on their garden tractors while you are removing one from yours.
OanFev8.jpg


Dave M7040
 
   / Ford 1710 will crank but not start
  • Thread Starter
#3  
Hi Dave,

I will test the glow plugs with my multimeter on ohms in the morning as you have suggested.

The relay bypass:
I bypassed it to get it started before the WSM arrives. The relay on it may be incorrect, damaged or wired incorrectly. It wasn't passing 12v to the starter in neutral/neutral with the clutch in.

Once the WSM arrives I will be restoring the factory wiring with the correct relay and wire colors to match the wiring diagram. That is assuming that this tractor was diagnosed incorrectly by the previous owner and the engine has life left in her!

Thank you for your help and concern!
 
   / Ford 1710 will crank but not start #4  
Loosen ALL the lines AT the injectors at the SAME TIME.. spin the engine until you get fuel squirting out & tighten..
You can remove the GP's & test w/ some alligator clips & tractor/car battery.. + to the top of the GP & - to the body..
They will/should get CHERRY RED in SECONDS so be careful.. DONT TOUCH THE TIP.. if you have more bad than good, replace the whole set..
 
   / Ford 1710 will crank but not start #5  
you will want to check to make sure your butterfly is open on your air intake,on my tractor it is a cable shutoff and if it does that I have to use needle nose pliers to open it.
 
   / Ford 1710 will crank but not start
  • Thread Starter
#6  
thepumpguysc:
Will be testing the glow plugs in an hour or two and follow up.

tony45:
I will check to make sure the butterfly is open.

Thank you guys!
 
   / Ford 1710 will crank but not start #7  
The 'knock' sound and low-oil running mentioned by previous owner sounds suspect. The knock could have been a valve push rod or cylinder connection that would disable one cylinder and force it to try and run on 2 cylinders. Might check exhaust manifold to see if one port is wet. Or pull oil pan to check for parts.
 
   / Ford 1710 will crank but not start
  • Thread Starter
#8  
Tested glow plugs with multimeter.

All 3 glow plugs had a resistance of more than 2.0 ohms, had one linger at 0.9 for a few seconds but was unable to replicate the reading. I believe I did it correctly but I am not 100% positive.

I ordered 3 new glow plugs and will them pick up tomorrow. NGK 7464 for $11 each.

--------------------
Trying to attach a photo of the air filter and hose.
0521182004a.jpg


Where is the butterfly located?

------------------

I will check the exhaust manifold and look for a wet port.
Thank you Kirk!

I appreciate the suggestions and advice!
 
   / Ford 1710 will crank but not start #9  
Everything I've read about fords of that era is they really like to be glowed. Our 1500 won't start unless I give it 30s+ of left turn key. 80F or 30F, doesn't matter.

Once the engine is warm it'll restart but the fact that your getting compression + smoke sounds like it may just not be warming up enough. If I get impatient and don't glow long enough I get a similar result.
 
   / Ford 1710 will crank but not start
  • Thread Starter
#10  
Replaced all 3 glow plugs.
Blew out air filter.
Ran jumper cables from truck to tractor.

Still will not start. Here is a video.

I think the starter may not be strong enough to turn over the engine?

Ford 1710 won't start - YouTube
 
 
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