Ford 1920 with FEL, backhoe--hydraulics OK?

hd883r · Nov 3, 2009

I'm looking at a 1987 Ford 1920 with 1300 hours. Has FEL (7108) and subframe mounted backhoe. Turf tires, front wheel assist, 12x4.

With 6' flail mower in good condition and brushrake and pallet forks (not much to speak of) asking 10k.

Now the FEL does not seem to lift the front. The system seems good, it will lift the mower 800 lbs or so with no problem. Hydraulic fluid looks good, no leaks.

When I push the bucket down it "lightens" the front but does not lift. If I roll the bucket down it rolls the bucket but the lower rams extend and the front still does not lift. Is this a warning sign, or is there a stuck/leaky valve or something??

In short, the up seems to be strong but the down less so...

Thanks.

RickB · Nov 4, 2009

Make sure you are not trying to raise the front with the rear brakes locked. Not allowing the rears to roll a little will keep the loader from raising the front axle. Otherwise, you could have a leaking piston seal on one of the loader lift cylinders which is certainly not a big deal.

BungeeII · Nov 4, 2009

Stupid question time.

Are you sure the loader is supposed to have down-pressure? Some loaders have lift only.

hd883r · Nov 4, 2009

Thanks for the info Rick. The brakes were not engaged, I'll have to check the cylinders.

jinman · Nov 5, 2009

To add to RickB's suggestion. An inexpensive hydraulic pressure gage attached to a male quick-connect can be a valuable tool in troubleshooting problems like this. It could be that your system relief valve is set so low that attempting to lift the front of the tractor by curling the bucket down is exceeding the relief pressure and allowing the lift arms to extend. I agree with RickB that it's probably an internal cylinder leak in one of the lift cylinders, but real numbers regarding pressure would be extremely valuable in troubleshooting. An 800 lb load on the 3PH would not even challenge the hydraulics if the relief was set as low as 1500 psi, but curling your bucket down might. By checking the maximum pressure with your engine rpm at 2000, it will tell you lots about the system. Simply remove one of the loader's quick connects and plug in the gage. Try it for both curl and lift. Hopefully the troublesome source will show by gage pressure.

EDIT: Sorry, I first overlooked that this is a tractor you are looking to buy. I'd run that pressure check anyhow before making my deal. The results may be a negotiating tool for finding a satisfactory purchase price. If everything worked normally, it would not matter. But, with your seeing a FEL weakness, this is worth checking with the gage. My NH dealer, TSC, and other dealers carry the gages and fittings to build a test gage (5000 psi gage is best). I use mine fairly often.

2ND EDIT:

A pressure gage that you can "T" into the line would work best for this test. That way you have both supply and return connected as normal and just measure the applied pressure. If you remove one of the hoses to connect a gage, all you will measure is system pressure. You won't be able to see if there is internal cylinder leakage. But, if you "T" in a gage by using one male and one female quick connect so you can leave the system connected normally, you will have better test setup.

hd883r · Nov 5, 2009

Jim, Thanks.

I should have been more clear, I lifted the mower with the FEL and a chain off the bucket.

Justin

rjok · Nov 5, 2009

On our TC-33 we have to curl the bucket down to lift the front end off the ground when using the backhoe.
Rick

hd883r · Nov 8, 2009

Bought it. Down on FEL is only hydraulic system with issues. The engine pulls when I push the FEL down. Up, bucket, hoe etc not problem. So far very happy. I may never use shovel again

BungeeII · Nov 8, 2009

Pictures!

Congratulations. That's a lot of equipment for the price. There's lots of 1920's and 1720's in the midwest over at tractorhouse. You'll notice most tractors with loaders exceed 10k. Getting one with the equipment that you did sounds like an amazing deal.

RickB · Nov 8, 2009

jinman said:
EDIT: Sorry, I first overlooked that this is a tractor you are looking to buy. I'd run that pressure check anyhow before making my deal. The results may be a negotiating tool for finding a satisfactory purchase price. If everything worked normally, it would not matter. But, with your seeing a FEL weakness, this is worth checking with the gage. My NH dealer, TSC, and other dealers carry the gages and fittings to build a test gage (5000 psi gage is best). I use mine fairly often.

2ND EDIT: A pressure gage that you can "T" into the line would work best for this test. That way you have both supply and return connected as normal and just measure the applied pressure. If you remove one of the hoses to connect a gage, all you will measure is system pressure. You won't be able to see if there is internal cylinder leakage. But, if you "T" in a gage by using one male and one female quick connect so you can leave the system connected normally, you will have better test setup.

Doing both tests will confirm whether the tested circuit is sound enough to build whatever the system relief pressure has been determined to be.