Ford 3930 bad input shaft bearing?

[Bumblebeer]

Scratch that, don't know what I was thinking. Can't be a problem with the PTO causing the grinding sound, otherwise I'd hear it regardless of what the drive clutch lever was doing...

 

[JC-jetro]

Yup, awesome. I kept looking at the clutch pack and pressure plate and could not see it clearly. Noticed the spline on the friction plate matched the outer spline and not the inner. Independent pto , specially with the hydraulically activated wet clutch like you have is the best set up. My Kubota is exactly the same as the inner spline always is meshed with the flywheel and have a wet clutch pack in the rear diffy housing. Mine is also hudrauiclly activeted by lever and not a switch. My buddy has a JD with dual clutch and the Deere literature called it independent PTO and he and I argueed on that for a while on independent vs live pto. All and all good outcome. good luck on the rest of the stuff.

 

[RickB]

Excellent Pictures. I think what has happened is due to mis adjustment of free play (too far rather too close) when you clutch all the way it could not separate friction disk from surface of the flywheel and the pressure plate cleanly and as a result it kept spinning parts (flywheel and pressure plate) against stopped or slow spinning friction disk an wore it it that manner long strands of friction material (asbestos or non-asbestos) came ff. Out of abundance of caution you might consider those ACM (Asbestos Containing Material) and not breath it in and just wet wipe with brake cleaner and dispose the rag in a bag and then tied off. Those are nasty stuff for your lungs. I was saying you might have a bit of time but I guess it passed that by a long time. As they say, it is cost of doing business and clutch is a wear item. it appears that you have dual stage clutch,live PTO. is that correct? Well, I am glad you'll be back in business soon. Great pictures again.

That's a ceremetallic clutch disc. No asbestos worries.

 

[JC-jetro]

That's a ceremetallic clutch disc. No asbestos worries.

That's good to know Rick. That is pretty much what I have used in our vehicles brake for the last 20 Years. I am almost sure , my 40 yr old Ford has asbestos as it is original oem stuff. Do you know?

 

[RickB]

"Clutches: Some clutch parts in use today, both in new and older car models, contain asbestos to control the heat produced by friction. During normal wear, the asbestos is ground down and may collect around the parts and clutch compartments."

Auto Mechanics and Asbestos - Asbestos in Brake Pads and Clutches

Because of their exposure to asbestos-laden brakes, automobile mechanics are considered at high risk of developing mesothelioma.

www.asbestos.com

 

[JC-jetro]

Just re-read your #10 post. I think you said it in reverse.

1- The inner shaft , smaller diameter with smaller # of gear teeth is actually your PTO drive shaft. It couples with your flywheel gear. Through a counter shaft that torque is sent to clutch pack. Clutch pack is normally not engaged and is monitored by a safety switch so most probably you cannot start the tractor with PTO engaged. Any time the tractor is on the PTO shaft is turning all the way to the pto clutch pack. Your final PTO shaft turns only when you engage your PTO by the lever. There is bit of hydraulic coupling and that is why you felt the resistance. On my kubota I have a PTO brake but don't know if you have that.

2- Your outer input shaft that is coupled with clutch disk is actually your transmission input shaft and activating the transmission clutch in no way can interfere with rotation of pto input shaft.

On , transmission driven PTO like my Ford, I have only one input shaft and it is not coupled with the flywheel. There is a pilot bearing that with the ID almost the same as OD of input shaft. I do have an internal ORC (Over Running Clutch) ,to allow only one direction on how the PTO turns and freewheels on the opposite. I have not checked with all makes and model but overall, independent PTO don't have ORC clutch.

 

[RickB]

Just re-read your #10 post. I think you said it in reverse.

1- The inner shaft , smaller diameter with smaller # of gear teeth is actually your PTO drive shaft. It couples with your flywheel gear. Through a counter shaft that torque is sent to clutch pack. Clutch pack is normally not engaged and is monitored by a safety switch so most probably you cannot start the tractor with PTO engaged. Any time the tractor is on the PTO shaft is turning all the way to the pto clutch pack. Your final PTO shaft turns only when you engage your PTO by the lever. There is bit of hydraulic coupling and that is why you felt the resistance. On my kubota I have a PTO brake but don't know if you have that.

2- Your outer input shaft that is coupled with clutch disk is actually your transmission input shaft and activating the transmission clutch in no way can interfere with rotation of pto input shaft.

On , transmission driven PTO like my Ford, I have only one input shaft and it is not coupled with the flywheel. There is a pilot bearing that with the ID almost the same as OD of input shaft. I do have an internal ORC (Over Running Clutch) ,to allow only one direction on how the PTO turns and freewheels on the opposite. I have not checked with all makes and model but overall, independent PTO don't have ORC clutch.

Your description of the input shafts' respective functions is incorrect. The inner shaft is the transmission input and the outer hollow shaft drives the rear hydraulic pump and PTO. The inner shaft engages the clutch disc, the outer shaft engages the pressure plate.

 

[JC-jetro]

Your description of the input shafts' respective functions is incorrect. The inner shaft is the transmission input and the outer hollow shaft drives the rear hydraulic pump and PTO. The inner shaft engages the clutch disc, the outer shaft engages the pressure plate.

Thanks for correction . May be it is different in NH. I have my Kubota's WSM and it corroborates with my statement. Please look at the schematic below and give me your opinion. The flywheel on my Kubota is geared and it appears to couple with inner pto shaft.

 

[RickB]

Thanks for correction . May be it is different in NH. I have my Kubota's WSM and it corroborates with my statement. Please look at the schematic below and give me your opinion. The flywheel on my Kubota is geared and it appears to couple with inner pto shaft.

This can vary between models within the same brand as well as across brands. The info I posted for this model is correct.

 

[JC-jetro]

This can vary between models within the same brand as well as across brands. The info I posted for this model is correct.

Ok . That's good to know. I did not check with NH website. I was going based on my Kubota and the WSM for my model. I think when I ge a chance will go to NH site just out of curiosity later on. Thx.