Ford 800 172 engine sleeves--Overbore or Std 3.9?

   / Ford 800 172 engine sleeves--Overbore or Std 3.9?
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fordcomanche

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Thanks John,
I do have one of the Harbor Freight 20Ton press in the shop. I like the press but the closest freezer or oven is about 10min away. About the only source of heat that I could set up at the shop would be a small portable propane stove burner (or charcoal BBQ pit.) As you mentioned, attempting to use the wife's oven would likely create a very volatile situation;) Shes still upset with me about my foot injury and that was almost a month ago,haha!

Thinking about this, I just had a memory from many years ago at work they had one of those portable induction bearing heaters in an electric motor shop. The guys would put large bearings on it and then be able to just take the bearing with some thick hand mits and practically drop it onto the motor shaft with little effort.
Would love to have one those right now!

Thanks, I'll let you know how it goes
 
   / Ford 800 172 engine sleeves--Overbore or Std 3.9?
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fordcomanche

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Well things are still dragging on way too slow with this project due to other priorities. I still do not have the cam gear installed. 🙄
I've made several attempts heating it and am able to get it started onto the the camshaft but getting perfect alignment with the woodruff key before the gear cools/shrinks has been the problem.

I actually damaged one gear which looked to be in perfect alignment with the key but it was just off enough to scrape the side of key and break a small piece of thinner section of gear where the thrust plate rides.

The camshaft vendor says to use the hot oil method of heating the gear, but that is very difficult to do safely as I ended burning my right hand and forearm from a splash of hot oil even with gloves and long sleeve FRC clothing.🥵

The problem I keep having is that the gear has to be partially pressed on before it reaches the keyway and by that time the gear is cooling and starting to shrink in place so its not possible to rotate it even slightly to get exact key alignment. I even tried to make a long thin alignment guide by grinding a piece of square key stock.

My setup had been with the cam secured vertically in the press and then putting gear in place on top. My machinist friend suggested setting everything up horizontally to help keep the key in place or possibly slightly peening near the key to secure it from shifting.

I wish this was still designed like the original cam and gear which was held on with a bolt and that was never a real issue to align.

Heres some pics of the vertical press setup.
I now have a small electric oven at the shop to heat the gear but would appreciate if you have any thoughts or alignment tips for this key. Thanks!
 

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   / Ford 800 172 engine sleeves--Overbore or Std 3.9? #43  

jaxs

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"I wish this was still designed like the original cam and gear which was held on with a bolt and that was never a real issue to align

The cam looks to be threaded. If it is,polish cam or ream gear to slightly reduce interference then add a bolt. If cam isn't threaded,could your friend bore and thread? Maybe chamfering bore in gear will make it easier to press on? Have you tried freezing cam instead of heating gear?
 
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   / Ford 800 172 engine sleeves--Overbore or Std 3.9?
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fordcomanche

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Hi Jaxs,

Thanks, this new cam and gear is the snap ring type. It has a small center bore (I guess from manufacturing it), but isn't threaded like the original cam, I sure wish it was threaded.

The gear has some chamfer on back side and when the gear is heated, it will start onto shaft pretty easy but once its partially on the shaft, just cant get it fully aligned with key before it cools and starts to shrink tight. I've tried to secure the cam and then rotate the gear slightly but its like already cooled and shrunk too much. I then have to use the gear puller and pull it off and try again.

My friend did mention about polishing it slightly or freezing the shaft. (At his work I think they have liquid nitrogen or other cryogenics) Hoping that I may be able to get him to come over and help install it.

I haven't tried freezing the shaft yet as my freezer is about 15min away from my shop and figured I'd lose too much temp by the the time I got it set up.
Maybe I could load up the press, cam, and tools and bring it all up to the house near freezer and oven.

Thanks again:)
 
   / Ford 800 172 engine sleeves--Overbore or Std 3.9? #45  

John0829

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Dry ice is your friend for keeping it cold and as for keeping the key in the shaft use a center punch and make dimples on the side of it, the part that sits in the cam. The dimples will swell it (key) slightly it will stay in better, I prefer this to peening the $$$ shaft.

I, like you, think the bolt on is a better way to go than the snap ring especially when you are "shade tree" so to speak.
 
   / Ford 800 172 engine sleeves--Overbore or Std 3.9?
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fordcomanche

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Hi John,
Thanks for tip on peening the woodruff key itself, I hadn't thought about trying that.
Well after cleaning out some of the freezer for Independence Day cookout, wife has now approved space for the camshaft in freezer, so its chilling in there now!🙂
Started checking around locally for the dry ice, hopefully can get this part finished soon.
 
   / Ford 800 172 engine sleeves--Overbore or Std 3.9? #47  

John0829

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You'll get there, I'm wait for the post that says it's running
 
   / Ford 800 172 engine sleeves--Overbore or Std 3.9?
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fordcomanche

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Thought I'd post a progress update since its been awhile.
First, I want to say thanks for the tips on the cam gear install, that helped greatly. I peened the woodruff key as you mentioned and that worked great to hold it in place.
I also put the cam in freezer and heated the gear and was able to get it installed on 2nd try. On first try, I still had the issue of aligning the key slot before gear began to shrink onto shaft. 2nd time, I used the key "alignment guide" that I made out of square keystock. This helped me get the gear in exact alignment and press into place.
After all of this, I was comparing pics of the old and new cam and realized why I was having so much trouble with key alignment-On the bolt type cam, the key comes nearly to end of shaft so its easy to align. But on the snap ring cam, the key is about 1/2" or more away. Attached are some pics of the cam comparison and alignment tool.
  • After install, checked thrust clearance with dial indicator- camshaft thrust clearance was .007". Crankshaft thrust clearance and was .005".
  • Finally got all the correct oil pump parts and completed rebuild of pump and installed. Pumped some oil thru it to test it with drill and 1/4" hex drive. It feels fairly tight with cover on. (Will fully prime with drill prior to start)
  • The distributor bushing was quite worn, so replaced bushing and tested the advance weight movement with drill.
I'm about ready to install oil pan, but had a question about the rear main bearing side seals... I put them in oil and then installed. They went all the way in and have seemed to be holding in place, but I noted that they did not fully fill the void of the slot-there is still some opening between metal and seal.
I haven't paid much attention to the side seal expansion before since pan normally gets installed much quicker.
Is this gap normal or should I replace these with a new set? Heres a pic of how they look right now.

Thanks again for all the assistance!
 

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   / Ford 800 172 engine sleeves--Overbore or Std 3.9? #49  

John0829

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The seals should swell to seal that tiny bit of a gap BUT I still put a TINY dab of RTV in there to be safe. Sounds like you have beat it into submission and are headed on the downhill. (y)
 
 
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