ford with cat motor what to look for?

   / ford with cat motor what to look for? #1  

skylarkguy

Platinum Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
727
Location
Dallas Oregon
Tractor
Mitsubishi MT372, Ford NAA
I'm going to look at a 1987 ford medium duty dump truck with a cat 3208 motor in it. I've read online that the water pumps were a weak point but is there anything else i should be concerned with and look for? This will also be my first experience with air brakes so any suggestions on prepurchase evaluation would be great. Thanks
 
   / ford with cat motor what to look for? #2  
Read over the DOT's printed material on air brakes for starters. Inspect the drums for cracks, the lining for thickness, air lines for deterioration. On the front axle, pull on the slack aduster to see if the push rod travels more than one inch out of the chamber which would mean the brakes are out of adjustment on the front. Assuming the rear axle has spring brakes (a double chamber that applies your rear brakes both for stopping and for emergency or parking), a crude but quick way to check the adjustment is to look at the angle between the push rod and the slack adjuster with the parking brake applied. Less than 90 degrees would mean the rod is traveling further to apply the brakes. 90 degrees plus is what you want. This is with "S-cam" brakes. I am not sure about wedge brakes, I never drove a truck with them nor do I remember studying them.

Next would be an air leakage test. For an 87 year, I would assume that the air will leak down while sitting which may or may not mean there is a problem. Trucks will leak while sitting but still pass the leakage test. Start the truck and build the air until it stops at around 125 psi (you will hear the governor kick out). A two tank system will have dual air guages or a single guage with two needles. Both should be around 125 but may vary a few psi. Put the truck in gear and shut it off or block the wheels. Turn the key to on, allow the guages to stablize and release the parking brake. Once the air stabilizes you should not see it drop more than 2 psi in one minute. Apply the service brake (brake pedal) and the drop should be no more than 3 psi in one minute. Next, pump the pedal to drain off the air. Around 80 psi but no more than 60, you need both a visual and audible alarm for each tank. One tank may alarm before the other. Keep on pumping. Around 40psi but maybe down to 20 psi, the parking brake button will pop out as the rear brake is automatically applied. Start the engine and build the air back up. Once the governor kicks out, put the truck in gear but keep the parking brake applied. Let the clutch out enough to put a little pressure on the drive line. You are checking to see how well the parking brake holds. Lastly, release the parking brake, let the clutch out while you move forward about five miles per hour while holding the steering wheel loosely. Push in the clutch and apply the brake while checking for pulling to one side or the other. You may also want to open the air tank drains to see how much oil comes out. I would expect some.

Better yet, find someone who knows air brakes to help you out.
 
   / ford with cat motor what to look for?
  • Thread Starter
#3  
Great! Thanks.This is very helpful.
 
   / ford with cat motor what to look for? #4  
This is just going to be a combination of some of my experiences and what others have told me over the years. A 3208 Cat in this area is referred to as a throw away engine. They are a good motor but when they are wore out you just throw them away as they aren't worth rebuilding. Personally unless your getting a real good deal I would look for a straight six from either Cat or Cummins. If your paying the same dollar for either you might as well go for a better engine. What is your intended usage? If this truck is just going to be used once in a while vs used hard everyday that would also be a factor in whether I bough this truck or not. This is just my thoughts. If it's a good deal and you are happy with it and everything checks out good then don't let what I say stop you.

Another issue these motors have is the small Approx 1.25" plastic tube between the front cover and the head. This is a water passage and the o-rings leak after a while. The easiest way to fix is to remove both the heads and replace the two tubes. It's a big job so if there is coolant leaking in those areas make sure that is reflected in the price.

Good luck.
 
   / ford with cat motor what to look for? #5  
In a truck or combine 3208's have been very good, in tractors they don't seem to last that well . I have a rebuilt in a steiger that just pulls a scraper that has done 3000hrs since rebuild .
 
   / ford with cat motor what to look for?
  • Thread Starter
#6  
Thanks for the input guys. I looked at the truck today. The positive is basically it seems very sound. All the checks outlined by QRTRHRS yielded good results. The air system doesn't leak down very much at all. The air gage works for both tanks. Parking brake is strong. Audible alarms work but I couldn't find the visual. Very little water in the tanks. I likely would repeat these things one more time if I decide to buy.

The motor is a "factory re manufacture", apparently 5 years ago. It was cold when he started it and it fired right up. Sounds good. Pulls strong. No visible coolant leaks and the system is full. The dump works fast and strong. The pto and hand throttle seem to work correct. Some fluid on the outside of the cylinder. The actual lever for actuating the dump required a hammer (literally) to disengage...so that seems off.

It goes down the road straight and stops straight. Steering is tight and easy (power steering). The steer tires are shot, but the rears are very good at at least 80% i'm guessing. Some sidewall checking though.

Now for the troubling stuff. The throwout bearing is noisy when you step on the pedal. The guy said is always sounded that way. He has had it less than a year, used it for 1 project now wants to get rid of it. The speedometer doesn't work and apparently hasn't for some time. The odometer appears to be non functional as well. For me that is worrisome because without a hobbs meter there is no measurement of time or miles. It has an Eaton 2 speed rear end it is currently in high and nobody seems to know if it works or how to make it work. I didn't try it but would want it to work especially when off road on my property. There are lots of little things I'd want to get working. Like the knob for the windshield wipers and little odds-n-ends like that.

This truck will be replacing a 1 ton chevy dump. I generally haul organic material... manure etc for private use. Most of the time i'm on the functional edge or over the chevy's ability...It would be dangerous in a panic situation. This Ford oddly enough if 18 cubic feet less bed capacity than the chevy but clearly is more truck and would handle the weight much much better. I will be sharing ownership with my BIL and another small farmer friend in the area...likely it would only get used 10 days per month or less. The dimensions of this truck are just about the biggest I can accommodate through my narrowest gate. He is asking just south of 4k.

Thoughts?
 
   / ford with cat motor what to look for? #7  
The clutch noise could get a bit more involved than your smaller truck in that it could have a clutch brake on it. Not sure about repair costs on one but I can explain what they are. The clutch brake stop the clutch disk from spinning when you come to a stop thereby unloading the torque from the input shaft on the transmission. Ever hear a truck driver grinding the gears at a dead stop?

When you drive a truck with a clutch brake you do not push the clutch to the floor rather you go about half way else you are wearing on the clutch brake. That is if you use the clutch to shift at all or minimally depending on the transmission and how it shifts.

There should be a removable plate (it may be missing) on the bottom of the bell housing to inspect or adjust the clutch. If there is a brake, you should be able to see the obvious difference compared to a standard clutch. For minimal use, even a noisy clutch could last for a long time or maybe not.

It's been maybe forty years since I shifted a 2 speed rear so I cannot be much help to you on one of those.
 
   / ford with cat motor what to look for? #8  
Take off in 1st gear. As you a revving it a little, push down the red button, ease off the fuel, then tap the fuel. It should go into low.
 
   / ford with cat motor what to look for? #9  
I'm just going to comment on where I think I can add some value. The dump lever is probably just rusty I'm guessing. If that's the case then just spraying the valve where it goes in and out of the valve body will probably wash the rust all away. Just spray WD-40 on where the valve enters the valve body while working the lever back and forth and if I'm right then soon it should move more freely. Might be a good idea to put a post under the hoist while doing this so it doesn't come down on your head.

There should be a metal cover on the bottom of the clutch housing. If you remove it you can see what the clutch and the throw out bearing are doing. A bunch of shinny metal bits in the bottom of the cover is not a good sign. Usually a noisy bearing means that the transmission needs to come out to replace parts. Might as well do a complete clutch job at the same time. Transmissions are heavy to remove so if your not experienced be careful. It's not a hard job just time consuming.

The speedometer might be something as simple as the cable being disconnected either at the transmission or the speedo. Sometimes you can get away with just replacing the inside and not the whole cable. Napa has parts. I like to turn the cable with a drill and look at the other end to see if it's turning

The two speed is operated by a switch on the gear shift controlling an electric motor. All the switch does is send + 12 volts to two different leads on the electric motor at the rear axle. One is high and the other is low. There are two limit switches inside the box on the rear axle that shut the motor off when it's reached either high or low. Don't be scared to take the wires off at the back axle and see if you can get the motor to operate with a set of booster cables. - to ground and + to either of the two screws. That will tell you if the problem is in the rear axle or if there is a wiring problem. Also don't be scared to pull the cover off of the two speed box and have a look inside. Sometimes the actuating screw just gets a bit rusty from condensation. You can also turn the screw by hand once you get the cover off. You can also try high and low with the cover off and make sure everything operates as it should.
 

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