frozen pto linkage

[BOOMHAUER]

My PTO engagement lever has always worked like butter, throwing it in and out has never been a problem or thought. I have used my farmi winch this winter pulling out firewood. 2 weeks ago the lever started to get some resistance, I chaulked it up to sticky linkage that I needed to grease. Well, yesterday I go to pull out my last tree. I fired up the tractor let it warm up and drove up to the woodlot. The PTO lever was very stiff, it took considerable effort to get it to engage. Winched the tree out, then tried to disengage. Lever would not budge. I tellin' ya I bent the lever trying to get the PTO lever back to the off position. I knew at this point that if I turned the tractor off up in the woods, there would be no restarting. Drove it down to the barn, and used a pair of visegrips on the rod that enters the center transmission. This worked, albeit very stiff. Took the seat off, the levers apart, lubed everything, still stiff. The pics below show where the connecting rod enters the tractor center core. Whats up? Is there a clutch of some sort that engages/disengages?

 

[JC-jetro]

My PTO engagement lever has always worked like butter, throwing it in and out has never been a problem or thought. I have used my farmi winch this winter pulling out firewood. 2 weeks ago the lever started to get some resistance, I chaulked it up to sticky linkage that I needed to grease. Well, yesterday I go to pull out my last tree. I fired up the tractor let it warm up and drove up to the woodlot. The PTO lever was very stiff, it took considerable effort to get it to engage. Winched the tree out, then tried to disengage. Lever would not budge. I tellin' ya I bent the lever trying to get the PTO lever back to the off position. I knew at this point that if I turned the tractor off up in the woods, there would be no restarting. Drove it down to the barn, and used a pair of visegrips on the rod that enters the center transmission. This worked, albeit very stiff. Took the seat off, the levers apart, lubed everything, still stiff. The pics below show where the connecting rod enters the tractor center core. Whats up? Is there a clutch of some sort that engages/disengages?

Boomhauer,

You'll need to look at inside for the type of pto engagement you have. Most likely you have an sliding gear along with a fork setup for engagement of pto final shaft and pto drive shaft. There, for sure is some sort of detent mechanism(ball) to keep the shaft positively engaged. I reckon you got problem in that area. What is the model and make of your tractor and do you have IT manual for it or factory shop manual? NH site is great for that type of information, they have all the parts breakdown on the Ford and NH in thieor website. Give us more info and we take a stab at it. By the way , do you have live PTO (dual clutch)? and have you pushed the clutch all the way prior to PTO engagement.

good luck,

JC,

I'd be careful bending things up to get things moving. the torque your causing on the lever probably stressing something else... not a good thing.

 

[BOOMHAUER]

Hey JC, thanks for the reply. Tractor is a 2002 NH TC40d Hydro, so no clutch. I don't have a shop manual(yet) for this tractor. I'm pretty handy with most repairs. Opening up the tractor at this location, blind, does scare me. I don't have a problem with doing it, just want to know what I'm getting into. I will check out the NH site to see if they show a schematic for this.

Thanks, Paul

 

[BOOMHAUER]

Just returned from the NH website, attached are schematics for the PTO tranny and clutch. Don't know if its the PTO valve or the clutch thats binding up. With pliers it engages /disengages w/o grinding. The throw is just really stiff, moveable with pliers, now way with hand control.

 

[BOOMHAUER]

Here is the tranny schematic

 

[BOOMHAUER]

here is the tranny schematic, take 2

 

[JC-jetro]

here is the tranny schematic, take 2

Paul,

You need to look at the pic below, which is Rear transmission pto drive. You do have a hyd clutch for pto shaft engagement but what ties the pto shaft output from pto clutch to #13 pto shaft is by the action of,#7 sliding gear and #26 shift fork. If you look at #25 shift rod you see an indentation in the shaft that usually works with one or two detent ball and spring. That keeps the shaft #25 from sliding forward or backward when not intended. On my shifter there is a cover that I can remove the spring and the ball. if the ball is stuck , out of round or damaged making the shifting the fork almost impossible. I won't start taking things apart yet but will see if I have access to the detent mechanism from the outside.

Good luck,
JC,

 

[jinman]

here is the tranny schematic, take 2

Boomhauer, your PTO is completely hydraulic. That valve in front of the hairpin in the first photo is nothing more than a hydraulic valve that allows pressure to the PTO Clutch/Brake. The binding your are experiencing is probably completely in the first pivot point below the plastic cover on the left fender. Look down through the slot and you will see three levers pivot on a single shaft. You can easily remove the plastic cowling by removing bolts under the fender and lift off the cowling. Take the assembly apart and clean and lube it for smooth operation. It's nearly impossible to get lube inside without disassembly.

I'll bet if you pull the hairpin in the first photo, you will see that the linkage is still very stiff to operate. Normally, the shaft going into the hydraulic valve is very easy to turn once you disconnect the shaft.

Myself and several others have experienced the same symptoms, so don't feel like you are the first. The fix is pretty simple. Good luck!

JC: These new-fangled tractors have fancy types of PTO engagement that are great as long as they work. They just aren't as simple as the straight gear-type engagement of the past.

 

[JC-jetro]

Boomhauer,

JC: These new-fangled tractors have fancy types of PTO engagement that are great as long as they work. They just aren't as simple as the straight gear-type engagement of the past.

hey Jim,

The diagram above is from NH website for TC40d. I'l double check to see if I looked at dual stage clutch and simple PTO sliding gear assembly for the pto.

Jc,

 

[JC-jetro]

Jim,

I just looked at the CNH site and it appears to me hyd clutch pack turns the PTO counter shaft only. Final pto shaft is engaged or coupled to the counter shaft by the action of a lever, sliding gear and shifter fork. Do you see it differently?

Now I know on some tractor (newer models) PTO is activated by elctro-mechnical engagements, and a switch turns the pto clutch/pto shaft "on or off", and there is no mechanical lever. How about on yours, do you have a lever and a switch for the pto or switch only?

Jc,

 

[jinman]

hey Jim,

The diagram above is from NH website for TC40d. I'l double check to see if I looked at dual stage clutch and simple PTO sliding gear assembly for the pto.

Jc,

JC, the diagram you are using is how the mid-pto is engaged off the main pto shaft. If you look at the parts list on the right side of the drawing on the webpage, you will see the shifter forks items 21 and 22 are for the mid-pto. If you do not have the mid-pto option, you don't have these parts. The upper part of the transmission contains the PTO clutch and engagement as Boomhauer posted in his drawing. It does not matter whether you have a gear or HST transmission, the pto engagement is the same. It is completely independent of transmission operation and the transmission's clutch on the gear models. When you open the hydraulic valve with the lever, it allows .8 gpm of hydraulic flow to the pto clutch/brake assembly for operation. Engagement is only accomplished by opening a valve.

 

[BOOMHAUER]

jinman, god I wish you were right. That was the first thing I did. I removed the left control cowl/cover, disassembledthe three levers, took them off the shaft and cleaned/lubed everything. When I had the levers out, I crawled under the tractor and tried the shift rod, part #9. This rod can only be moved with visegrips. After taking my seat off the tractor, I was able to see where this rod goes.

JC, I hope its something easy to do/access. I would honestly be way over my head taking apart the rear end of this tractor. Opening an access panel, inspecting, and replacing a detent ball/spring would be a piece of cake. By the way, I see Kansas under your username. I was born in Topeka, and have relatives in Pratt. Nicest people I've ever met in those parts of the country. Thanks for your input!

 

[jinman]

jinman, god I wish you were right. That was the first thing I did. I removed the left control cowl/cover, disassembledthe three levers, took them off the shaft and cleaned/lubed everything. When I had the levers out, I crawled under the tractor and tried the shift rod, part #9. This rod can only be moved with visegrips. After taking my seat off the tractor, I was able to see where this rod goes.

JC, I hope its something easy to do/access. I would honestly be way over my head taking apart the rear end of this tractor. Opening an access panel, inspecting, and replacing a detent ball/spring would be a piece of cake. By the way, I see Kansas under your username. I was born in Topeka, and have relatives in Pratt. Nicest people I've ever met in those parts of the country. Thanks for your input!

So... You pulled the hairpin and shaft and tried to turn the valve by hand or with the hairpin put back into the hole on the shaft to use as leverage? If you pull the hairpin and your lever operates easily, then the valve is binding internally. It's just a simple hydraulic on-off valve. I have never heard of any of these having a problem, but it could be the first to have binding internally. You can be sure that nothing working or not working in your PTO would have any effect on your engagement lever. Your problem is between the lever and the valve, or the valve itself. You will have to go no further than what you have shown in your pictures. I would bet my next paycheck on it.

EDIT: You might try loosening the jam-nut around the shaft where it goes into the valve (in front of the hairpin). If this loosens it up, then a little lube in that area just might be the ticket.

 

[JC-jetro]

jinman,

JC, I hope its something easy to do/access. I would honestly be way over my head taking apart the rear end of this tractor. Opening an access panel, inspecting, and replacing a detent ball/spring would be a piece of cake. By the way, I see Kansas under your username. I was born in Topeka, and have relatives in Pratt. Nicest people I've ever met in those parts of the country. Thanks for your input!

Boomhauer,

Take a look at the my shifter below. There are 4 horizontal rod right underneath, I got for bolts there as the pic shows. you loosen the bolt, cover does not come off but right under the bolt there is a spring and a steel ball. need magnet to take the ball out. My range got stuck once and I could not shift it to save my soul, I loosened the bolt and a bit of jiggling back and forth and I was in business. I then went ahead and took all the balls (4) and spring out. and replaced one of them that looked less than round. I'm not suggesting yours should look exactly like that but idea should be the same. I can't see disassembling part of transmission differential just to check detent mechanism.

Good luck,

Jc,

By the way, we live in south suburb of Kansas city, my #1 son goes to college in Manhattan and I pass Topeka and Lawrence every couple of weeks. Been in Kansas for a long time and certainly nice place to raise a family.

 

[jk96]

Had the same problem with my DX33 after not using the PTO all winter. I could only engage with vice grips as well. A few shots of JB weld and working it in and out with the vice grips solved the problem.

 

[BOOMHAUER]

jinman, take a look @ the first pic below. The shift lever when detched from the pto shift rod works great. The red arrow points to where I had placed the visegrips. This is the rod that has considerable resistance, so much so that when the control lever is attached, I bent the control lever trying to move it. The next pic shows where this rod connects to the pto valve. This is under the seat. Two arrows, one green, one red. Are talking about where the green arrow is? Lube where the rod enters the valve?

 

[BOOMHAUER]

one more pic, this a schematic of the valve itself.

 

[JC-jetro]

JC, the diagram you are using is how the mid-pto is engaged off the main pto shaft. If you look at the parts list on the right side of the drawing on the webpage, you will see the shifter forks items 21 and 22 are for the mid-pto. If you do not have the mid-pto option, you don't have these parts. The upper part of the transmission contains the PTO clutch and engagement as Boomhauer posted in his drawing. It does not matter whether you have a gear or HST transmission, the pto engagement is the same. It is completely independent of transmission operation and the transmission's clutch on the gear models. When you open the hydraulic valve with the lever, it allows .8 gpm of hydraulic flow to the pto clutch/brake assembly for operation. Engagement is only accomplished by opening a valve.

Jim,

I get your point. Items 21 and 22 are for the mid pto but item 26 fork, 25 rod works with Sliding gear A that is for TC35D and Tc40D which are parts of Lower, Rear Transmission PTO drive. Shaft 13 is clearly final pto shaft that can be covered externally with item 19 cap. This is totally independent of transmission. What am I missing there?

JC,

 

[jk96]

A few shots of JB weld and working it in and out with the vice grips solved the problem.

Sorry - JB80

 

[jinman]

jinman, take a look @ the first pic below. The shift lever when detched from the pto shift rod works great. The red arrow points to where I had placed the visegrips. This is the rod that has considerable resistance, so much so that when the control lever is attached, I bent the control lever trying to move it. The next pic shows where this rod connects to the pto valve. This is under the seat. Two arrows, one green, one red. Are talking about where the green arrow is? Lube where the rod enters the valve?

Well, I'm a little embarrassed because I was looking at that hairpin on the top shaft and didn't realize it was the 3PH lowering valve and shaft that comes out under the seat. It's been awhile since I looked directly at the PTO valve. But yes, the shaft going into the valve at the red arrow is the one that I should be talking about. That small valve on the bottom is the PTO valve. It sits directly on top of the transmission case. You could lube where that shaft goes into the valve, and you could lube on the other side of the valve where the C-lock ring is located. If you can't get it to loosen up, you might have to take the C-lock ring off and disassemble the valve. Since you have the illustration of the valve, you have most of what you need. I would probably clean that area well before any attempt to do disassembly.

Most of the time the binding is in the pivot, but you said that is very loose now. It sounds to me like you are doing all the right things. Of course, you also have to be concerned that the valve's orings and seals are not damaged or you might end up with a seeping leak. You said you could turn the shaft with the vice grips, so hopefully a little lube and working will get it loosened up.