Head West not so young Man

[texasjohn]

This is the thread....information is scattered back quite a few days...long story and Daugen has exhibited extreme patience with numerous dealers in an attempt to get problems resolved. This is my summary, kinda, of the problems and where Winne should have stepped up to the plate.

If I get some of the details incorrect...my memory problem....

The leveler busted and he worked with the dealer...no fix,

He sought to understand where the controller was via multiple phone calls and at multiple dealers...no fix

He did due diligence on this as well as sought to mechanically, via boards, achieve level.

IMHO, this MIGHT be a contributing factor to the slide failure since a torqued frame might lead to a sticky slide.

His slide failed, he observed two others RVs also failed, he almost had a different slide fail. This failure rate means that there is a design/build problem.

The problem is being addressed as a failed part, yet the fail rate SHOULD have been noted by dealers/Winne/Lippert as a quality failure and engineering/design should be involved in resolving.

The customer service phone people should be connected to a computer data base and record each trouble report, whether from him or via a dealer...I've experienced such records frequently kept by the electric co., phone co, almost any group. Certainly Winne with such an expensive product, which he purchased new, should have this data base for each customer and a trigger set such that repeated calls, such as he and dealers did, would warrant an exception report and, hopefully, they would initiate a call back to see if the problem was resolved. This didn't happen.

Phone calls he and dealer made were on hold for long times, dropped, all multiple times. Unacceptable

Dealer not having an effective phone number or escalation path, different from a customer's...unacceptable. Multiple dealers had this problem, thus it must not exist.

Motor on slide should have circuit breakers/fail safe mechanism to prevent motor from burning up. We have a Mercedes van which tells us which light bulb is malfunctioning...and this means it identifies THE bulb...todays technology should be used. His comment regarding molex plug with discoloration proves that an electrical problem, whatever the source, occurred, and thus could have been sensed electrically. It seems that a stuck slide results simply in the motor running until it fails without any indication of the problem, which the owner might be able to handle by manually assisting or realigning the slide.

No spare parts at Winne...unacceptable.

Being told to get part from Lippert...unacceptable

Lippert not having spare inventory...unacceptable

There does not seem to be a way to identify when on a trip, have experienced a failure, and are invoking their 24 hr trip saver guarantee. This seems to be critical for both dealers and Winne to set priorities so they can differentiate between the whiners and disasters. Maybe only the dealer could have the power to identify a customer as being in such trouble...but such a scheme should be integral to their 24 hr trip saver guarantee.

Their web site lists NO service recourse path, just phone number. Finding email addresses within the company is HARD...I couldn't do it...

The email he got from an executive was confrontational, stating that he should have called them back yet again. This implies an arrogance and attitude toward customers of an extremely expensive purchase which is unacceptable. Given all items listed above, it seems that this arrogance and attitude is embedded in the Winne culture at corporate level.
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[k0ua]

Texasjohn, I believe you summed that up quite well.:thumbsup:

 

[daugen]

you guys are the best. I wish no ill will to Winnebago. They are a highly respected company. Wonder if we are seeing the results of staffing cuts after the big crash of 2008. Boy they sure need to hire some more for Customer Service, empower them, and provide alternatives other than bothering and likely pissing off the execs of the company. All I wanted was for them to do what they promised, and the folks in Customer Service that the dealer talked to were either utterly ignorant of SOP or weren't told of how to handle special issues
and clearly weren't empowered to do so. Mr. Potts is likely a very nice guy. So am I. I don't want to trash his company at all, really. But boy would they have to do something seriously unexpected for me to consider buying their product again, like their fancy new fifth wheel model called I think Destination. Which I will look to buy in the Fall.

But you just have to hear this...while I was sitting at S&S Apache, a really nice guy came in with a 40+foot fifth wheel he had bought there recently. And guess what company's autoleveling system he had, and guess what did not work? Maybe they have just driven too much weight and cost out of the subcomponents that they aren't as sturdy as they used to be. Or conditions of use have to be perfect; i.e. perfectly level, rv motor running, blah blah. Well maybe they need to design this stuff a little stronger so that it can take more use/abuse and still work. Not my worry. Since I'm sure not going to buy a new trailer with Lippert leveling systems or slides. There has to be other competitors out there.

More importantly... I just finished a very fine late lunch/dinner of chicken and vegetables loaded with minced garlic, mustard, olive oil, cooked down sweet onions, and a liberal dosing of a Marlborough Sauvignon Blanc from New Zealand I brought along and figured I'd better start enjoying. Marvelous to cook with. I bet this campground has never smelled so good. When those two teaspoons of minced garlic hit the hot olive oil and grey poupon mustard, and just lit up the sweet onion smell, well I just got hungrier and hungrier cooking it.

I needed a nice meal; getting here to this delightful small campground called Rocky Top in Blountville TN was challenging. Started off dry and then the heavens opened up. Will see if any of the pics came out.
Boy that glass of wine sure hit the spot...and now that it is Saturday afternoon, and the horse is winnying to get back to the barn, I still intend to squeeze as much fun out of this as possible.
But standing up to eat my nicely cooked dinner, well, it got old... No vampires around here tonight, there is a garlic cloud around the rv.

update, well a few came out. Once it started raining it was two hands on the wheel. When those big semis come past they always push the rv to the right so I'm slightly steering to the left to counterract the wind force as they come by. So I use my mirrors a lot to see who is coming up. And alas all I have is a pic of a truck behind me, loaded, I promise, with a nice green John Deere three or four series with a cab, and he just loved following me. I kept trying to get him to go past me so I could get a picture, it was funny actually. But he never did, he liked my 64 in a 70 just fine.

Looks like it has cleared up here for awhile so time to go for a walk and burn off some of that fine meal. Might even walk up to their little store and see what they have. I'll ask for some fireworks under the counter and see if they have a sense of humor or perhaps they'll drag six boxes out, an explosive smorgasbord. Lots of fireworks signs,something about the South and their fireworks.

 

[Jstpssng]

Daugen, you have the patience of a saint. If enough people have similar problems though, it will get expensive for Winnie. I could be wrong, but it seems some of the things you described are known as "Breach of Contract".


PS; reading your last post started me drooling. Time to go out and start up the grill.

 

[ronjhall]

I needed a nice meal; getting here to this delightful small campground called Rocky Top in Blountville TN was challenging. Started off dry and then the heavens opened up. Will see if any of the pics came out.
Boy that glass of wine sure hit the spot...and now that it is Saturday afternoon, and the horse is winnying to get back to the barn, I still intend to squeeze as much fun out of this as possible.
But standing up to eat my nicely cooked dinner, well, it got old... No vampires around here tonight, there is a garlic cloud around the rv.



Looks like it has cleared up here for awhile so time to go for a walk and burn off some of that fine meal. Might even walk up to their little store and see what they have. I'll ask for some fireworks under the counter and see if they have a sense of humor or perhaps they'll drag six boxes out, an explosive smorgasbord. Lots of fireworks signs,something about the South and their fireworks.

Your meals are so exciting. :thumbsup:

 

[daugen]

Daugen, you have the patience of a saint. If enough people have similar problems though, it will get expensive for Winnie. I could be wrong, but it seems some of the things you described are known as "Breach of Contract".


PS; reading your last post started me drooling. Time to go out and start up the grill.

thanks. No, it's not breach of contract, it was an emotional promise in a way by the dealer that Itasca/Winnebago would make sure my trip wasn't ruined due to parts delays in the first year. And there are all kinds of legal outs to what Winnebago puts in print. That is my memory of what was told to me by the selling dealer in NJ. And for that I bought a new 100K motorhome that is now worth maybe 70-75K when I sell it. So that promise to me was worth, quantitatively, about $20K. That is the value I think I have lost, because I did not want to sit in Northern Mississippi for a week waiting for parts. Winnebago will likely think I didn't give them a chance, and that's what I read in the first letter of response. You didn't tell US, meaning senior management. People with authority. and the answer of course is to put people with authority on the phone in the first place. It's just that simple.

20+ years ago I was general manager/COO of a data company collecting public records in NJ. I had everyone but IT reporting to me, about 160 people, mostly women. Almost all the IT staff were men, interestingly, about ten of them, and very well paid relatively. And one of the reports to me was Customer Service, staffed by four women and one man.
The manager was a wonderful five foot ball of energy named Charlotte and she ran a tight ship. Phones were answered within so many seconds or voice mail was offered. I was never ever offered voicemail by Winnebago, though most of the time it wouldn't have helped. I bet their own system must disconnect lines if they are unused too long, like being on hold too long...

So I understand Customer Service, before I joined that company I did business consulting for them and reorganized the CS area, among others. That means I also understand how balls can get dropped.
But rarely did I ever have to get a call. My CS manager really handled the tough ones, knew everything she needed to know how to fix things, and just did it. And was frazzled at the end of a long day but she went home with a smile. And she was paid very, very well for doing such a good job.
Keeping the customers happy is a much better use of a company's time than marketing for new ones,particularly in an industry where owner loyalty is important for the next buy.

And I have had a very, very good month on the road, and will be better prepared for the next trip.
Trip West, part II

I feel like a food critic who has gone to a restaurant and written a terrible review of the place.
It may be true, but I don't enjoy it. And once higher up management got a hold of this, things happened immediately. Immediately. And they were very frustrated that they were coming in after the ship had sailed. And I'm sure they will change some policy in their manual, but if they don't get twice as many people in that CS unit, lot of unhappiness will continue.

And the local dealer I am going back to, not where I bought it which is much further away, well I'm not holding it against them they couldn't find the problem in the leveler. It was intermittent at that point and they thought adding a little more hydraulic oil, which they felt was slightly low, might help. They tried... So that dealer will get a call tomorrow morning and say "what?" they know nothing of this. And I'll likely go see what kind of fifth wheels they've got over the summer. And then I'll go diesel truck shopping. Not a bad to do list for this summer.

time for breakfast. Have a delightful Sunday.

 

[3930dave]

If a company wants to keep a Parts Commitment, it is pretty simple.

1) Stock the parts.

2) Ship them in a timely fashion.

Many companies today have a big issue with #1, both from a $ standpoint, and with the constant evolution of the parts themselves. (How many decades did GM use the same rear hydraulic brake cylinders (drum brakes) on their light vehicles - smart, really smart).

Talk is cheap. Part of how CAT has been successful is really Walking the Walk on delivering parts - as I recall their old commitment - Parts anywhere on the planet within 48 hours.

Aside from the tone of the Winni execs response (and, obviously, that it had to be escalated to that level to begin with), what I find lacking here is that Daugen was roughly in the centre of the USA when this was going on. It's not that he was seeking parts in the back of Timbuk2, or even the Wilds of Canada ! Transportation logistics were obviously not a factor.

Please keep us posted on the gourmet meals, and your new shopping expedition once you get home Daugen.

Can't say I was really keen on the mechanical complexity of slides to begin with, but I'm definitely less impressed with the state of production now. Any chance that you will be looking at an Airstream Daugen ?

Rgds, D.

 

[texasjohn]

Well, guess I'm not a lawyer, but seems to me that the following, from their trip saver program on the net, is very clear. The Four Simple Questions

The first program of its kind, our TripSaverｮ Fast Track Warranty Program guarantees 24-hour delivery for in-stock emergency warranty parts. Parts are shipped directly to your dealer overnight so in the unlikely event of trouble, you can get back on the road as quickly as possible.

OK...you were first told that parts were not in stock...thus warranty would not apply...then, a senior executive told you, in writing, that the parts WERE in stock, and even then failed to get them OVERNIGHT to your dealer. Informed on Friday, promised to dealer on next Wednesday. In my book, that's a breach, twice executed. And, I would argue you did due diligence.

Yes, I know, making waves at this point is counter productive to getting your RV repaired.

Just making it clear to readers what the warranty claim is and how it played out in real life, even when under a bright light.

 

[Citydude]

Talk is cheap. Part of how CAT has been successful is really Walking the Walk on delivering parts - as I recall their old commitment - Parts anywhere on the planet within 48 hours.

This is my thought as well. I always had "world class" service and parts availability from them when I was in the mining business. They were proud to form a partnership and were there 24 hours a day when we needed them. Once you have that kind of service, it kind of spoils you

 

[Western]

Well, guess I'm not a lawyer, but seems to me that the following, from their trip saver program on the net, is very clear. The Four Simple Questions

The first program of its kind, our TripSaverｮ Fast Track Warranty Program guarantees 24-hour delivery for in-stock emergency warranty parts. Parts are shipped directly to your dealer overnight so in the unlikely event of trouble, you can get back on the road as quickly as possible.

OK...you were first told that parts were not in stock...thus warranty would not apply...then, a senior executive told you, in writing, that the parts WERE in stock, and even then failed to get them OVERNIGHT to your dealer. Informed on Friday, promised to dealer on next Wednesday. In my book, that's a breach, twice executed. And, I would argue you did due diligence.

Yes, I know, making waves at this point is counter productive to getting your RV repaired.

Just making it clear to readers what the warranty claim is and how it played out in real life, even when under a bright light.

x2, I agree with John, especially after reading the response email you received. That response clearly sounds to me as a crafted "CYA" response and likely done after talking to their council.

From reading through your thread Daugen, sounds like you would certainly have some "emotional/stress damages" ta boot. Not counting the monetary loss. I think I would have to have a consultation with a consumer attorney, we're not talking a toaster here. $250 to put your facts in front of an attorney is only 10% of what you have already lost in value alone.

Wish you the best with it, it could have been easily avoided if they just stood behind their sales claims. Sounds like Lippert is well aware of faulty parts as well, hmm. Wait until some poor soul gets hurt due to this..