Help choosing 240v generator for MIG welder?

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Sodo

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It would be great to hear from someone with actual experience using "normal generators" for welding. I am a hobby/maintenance welder, don't need pro-level eqpt, just need it to work for the occasions when I need the 1/4" & thicker settings. If I were to guess - I would need it to work for 2 hours per year for 20 years (without consuming funds that I could use for other tools & stuff! )

I tried to run the MultiMatic 200 off a 5000W (21A) generator and it could only push the 1/4" thickness preset (on 230v).
 

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Ooops just called MillerWelds and asked a Tech. (tech suppt 1-866-931-9733)

For 230v welding the MultiMatic200 can operate at full power from any generator that is rated 7200W or higher (continuous).
For 115v welding at full power (1/4" preset) requires a generator rated at 4900W continuous per 115v outlet. Take note that 5,000w generators can generally only output only 2500w into each of two 115v outlets.

The tech said any generator of reasonable quality should work fine.

The MultiMatic 200 does not care much about the quality of the input power. It converts everything it gets to DC, then inverts it to the power configuration that it wants (to weld with). I did not ask about other welders (such as the 211).
 
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Ooops just called MillerWelds and asked a Tech. (tech suppt 1-866-931-9733)

The MultiMatic 200 does not care much about the quality of the input power. It converts everything it gets to DC, then inverts it to the power configuration that it wants (to weld with). I did not ask about other welders (such as the 211).
Hey, why not! :laughing: This is exactly what I want to know with my 211 and my Honda 3000w generator. I am assuming I need to piggy back it with another one but that might still leave me too short on 230v but okay on 115v.
 
  
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Sodo

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Hey, why not! :laughing: This is exactly what I want to know with my 211 and my Honda 3000w generator. I am assuming I need to piggy back it with another one but that might still leave me too short on 230v but okay on 115v.

Sorry I would have asked about the 211 but it was already getting complicated. I assume you have a EU3000i? I'm pretty sure that only the inverter generators can be "paired".

I suspect the 211 will work OK on 115 up to 1/4" if two 3000i are "paired". Note that for the 1/4" thickness preset it makes no difference if it's getting 115v supply or 230v.

On 230v (with paired 3000s) maybe you can use the 5/16" preset? :confused3: But probably not the 3/8" preset which requires 7200W.
 
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It would be great to hear from someone with actual experience using "normal generators" for welding. I am a hobby/maintenance welder, don't need pro-level eqpt, just need it to work for the occasions when I need the 1/4" & thicker settings. If I were to guess - I would need it to work for 2 hours per year for 20 years (without consuming funds that I could use for other tools & stuff! )

I tried to run the MultiMatic 200 off a 5000W (21A) generator and it could only push the 1/4" thickness preset (on 230v).

I've welded with several welders on generators, and have had good success with my harbor freight predator generator. I used my TA 181i in both stick and mig mode, and my observation is that you get a lot more bang for your buck from stick on a smaller generator since you run amperage based on welding rod diameter instead of material thickness (to an extent). I think my generator is 5500W continuous, but the mig was pushing it on 1/4" plate and would trip the welder's breaker after a few seconds of welding. I could run stick beads with 1/8" 7018 all day though.

I've also got a dual voltage Everlast PA200ST, and have run it off of a Yamaha inverter generator, 110V and 2800 watts with great results. I could run 3/32" rod all day with good results. My friend, who is a much better welder than I am, had great things to say about my little PA200 on his generator, and he has a Miller Dynasty 200 as his primary machine.

So, my recommendation, if you want to save money, and you don't use your generator to "generate" revenue, is get the bigger Harbor Freight Predator 7000W continuous, and you should be able to mig at the top end of your millermatic's capacity. Just make sure to do the proper generator maintenance, especially when it comes to keeping your fuel clean and fresh, and that generator should last you a long time. It gets good reviews and is probably built in the same factory as most of the other chicom generators that list for double the price.
 
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You did what I did: Just called the factory and asked for tech support.

Except in my case I already had the generator (Northern Tools Northstar 5500 watt genset). I called the Lincoln factory, talked to a tech and he said that it would power my planned Lincoln SP-175 Plus just fine.

Thus far, since Feb. 1999, I've used the generator one time to power the welder and that was at a friends house welding on his 4runner rock crawler. The generator/welder combination did fine, as did the 80' cord I had left over from my pool install, having the generator run about 50' away so it wasn't so loud where we were working and the welder did just fine. Not sure how the weldor did, but that's another story and thread.....

Thanks,
 
  
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I've been welding at 120v with a pair of Honda EU2000i generators. Paired, they can output 4000w for ~ 30 minutes.

Heres an observation. In the springtime when it was cool out, the pair of Hondas could run the welder at the 1/4" thickness preset. When it was hot (last week) they struggled to weld at the 3/16" preset. Or maybe it's the MultiMatic200 sensitive to heat, or a combination of all machines. Or maybe I've overstressed the Hondas, I don't know.

But in any case I'm on the lookout for an 8,000W generator. Maybe the 8,000W will have remote start Keyfob and I can put it behind the barn. I will add a muffler to it, not going to listen to that racket all day.
 
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Sodo, mine's from Costco, not name brand but has a Honda engine and electric (not remote) start, but only 7000 RUNNING watts, which is the ONLY spec that means squat - I've not tried it running any of my welders yet - no way it'd do the old transformer 250A stick machine, it would probably run the 252 for 1/4" or so. I know it'd run the little Everlast stick/tig machine that's been sitting in my garage for almost a year un-used (can't get the metal shiny enough for it) :D:D:D:D

It would also run my PM45, at least up to 1/2" plate - possibly 3/4.

No point so far, but a lot of small engines I've worked on over the years the exhaust port was actually pipe thread, usually 3/4 pipe. If your new genny has that, it'd sure make it easy to grab some black iron fittings and bell it up to a small car muffler - no increased back pressure and pretty quiet too... Steve
 
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Mark @ Everlast

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A Multirmatic DOES care what kind of power is put in it. A lot of generators put out a modified square wave. These have a tendency to burn up electronics real fast. They need a clean sine wave in order to dice it up into a DC wave. I am not sure what PFC level it has, but unless it has 99% then it can create issues too.

A good recommended generator on the basis of several customers owning one, and an AFFORDABLE and generally reliable option for a clean power unit is the powerhorse generator from Northern found here: Powerhorse Portable Generator with Electric Start — 9000 Surge Watts, 7250 Rated Watts | Portable Generators| Northern Tool + Equipment
 
  
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A Multirmatic DOES care what kind of power is put in it. A lot of generators put out a modified square wave. These have a tendency to burn up electronics real fast. They need a clean sine wave in order to dice it up into a DC wave. I am not sure what PFC level it has, but unless it has 99% then it can create issues too.

A good recommended generator on the basis of several customers owning one, and an AFFORDABLE and generally reliable option for a clean power unit is the powerhorse generator from Northern found here: Powerhorse Portable Generator with Electric Start 9000 Surge Watts, 7250 Rated Watts | Portable Generators| Northern Tool + Equipment

This is interesting. What type of generator has to modify a square wave? Do they get that square wave out of an engine-generator with a rotor / stator? Are these square wave types out there (in numbers) such that you have to pay attention (to avoid one)?

Bukit the Miller Tech said a generator with 7,000 running watts would work (for the MultiMatic 200 to weld at full power ----> 3/8" steel) but "the output they like to see is 7200W". So I bet your 252 would weld closer to 3/8" if you ever lug that stuff away from your 230 outlet (that I envy - even more than your polished steel supply :licking:).

That 7250W Northern Tool unit looks pretty good $799 + $161 shipping = $960. Thanks very much for the Northern tool suggestion.

Any tips on remote start/shutdown generators? A lot of my welding time is sitting and thinking, want to shut the dang thing off (& restart) easily. Heres their (7500W running) wireless remote start for $151 more ( $949 +193 = $1142).
Category 5 Electric Start Generator — 9375 Watts, Wireless Remote Control, EPA and CARB-Compliant, Model# 41535 | Portable Generators| Northern Tool + Equipment
 
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Mark @ Everlast

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Sodo, many economy generators produce a modified square wave instead of a sine wave. It's designed to appear "sine-ish", but the tops of the wave are flattened and it "falls" through the zero point instead of the curved rise of a sine wave (forget what it is called now). Most of these generators are actually alternators, and they produce a dirty wave, and on 240V, the phase angle is not properly aligned. (that is about as technical as I get or it makes my head hurt). Inverter generators can produce a clean sine wave, but not all do. A clean sine wave is generally regard as 10% or less total harmonic distortion. Northern Tool claims 5% on that unit...which is better than the average household current in some areas of the country. Any way, dirty sine waves and modified square waves tears up electronic equipment. Just because a unit puts OUT a square wave or DC wave doesn't mean it wants a square wave input. Inverters and transformer rectifiers alike produce a square wave by chopping the tops/bottoms off of an AC sine wave to produce a somewhat squiggly DC wave.

If you would not plug your computer tower into it, you don't need to plug your inverter welder into it. A transformer may not care as much although the arc quality may not be as good...basically garbage in/garbage out...although I am sure it could eventually damage one as well if it were bad enough.
 
  
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Mark, my understanding of generators & electrical power is rudimentary but I understand waveforms and what you wrote. Thanks for the time.

For generator sales,--------> more Watts = more $$$
Consequently generator producers want the biggest wattage number they can get, which could be dirty output. (just an assumption)

Ooops just called MillerWelds and asked a Tech. (tech suppt 1-866-931-9733)
The tech said any generator of reasonable quality should work fine.
The MultiMatic 200 does not care much about the quality of the input power. It converts everything it gets to DC, then inverts it to the power configuration that it wants (to weld with).

But for forum completeness, note that I tried to type the statements (my quote above) exactly as the Miller tech told me but it might be worth confirming. I called again today, but no answer (Saturday).
 

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It has to do with HOW the power is generated. You will pay double nearly for a clean power generator. Take a well known company like Generac. MOST of their units like the GP are not clean powered. Call them and they will tell you so...and probably will tell you (if prompted) not to use it on any electronics. Resistive loads like lights and some motors are fine. I would rely upon the generator supplier for the information, as they are the ones likely to get left holding the bag if something malfunctions on their genset.
Only their X series, which is more expensive, or the iX inverter based small gensets which start with 3 phase power and clean and convert it from there(which is the same basic generator Everlast sells IIRC, ) are designated as clean power.
 

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Been quite a few years since my work required the use of a scope, but this discussion is getting me curious -

I was always under the impression that ANY genny that produced AC power by means of a constant speed rotary AC generator, produced a SINE wave - If I get time (Trying to make space for a half-ton milling machine that's due Monday, and a left hand with 3 fingers temporarily out of commission) I'll drag out my scope and see if it even still works, and if it does maybe I can get a few pix of the waveform on my genny.

btw, the "modified sine wave" is usually just a square wave with a "slowed down" rise and fall time, done in lower cost UPS's and such because it's cheaper to build than a true sine wave generator (if you're doing it with electronics instead of rotary motion, that is) -

Mark, the term for that is "trapezoidal wave",named for the fact that each half-cycle looks like a trapezoid.

The reason for a trapezoidal wave (in ELECTRONICALLY generated power), besides lower cost to manufacture, is that a square wave contains essentially ALL ODD HARMONICS of the frequency being generated, which is DEFINITELY not good for the power transformers in the majority of devices. Among other things, it generates more HEAT in the transformer.

The trapezoidal wave, due to its slower rise/fall time, greatly reduces those harmonics. This means that a trapezoidal wave is BETTER for a transformer, but not necessarily good ENOUGH. In order for a transformer to handle non-sine power it needs to be bigger/heavier/more expensive. Not generally the direction most manufacturers wanna go...

Harmonic distortion, in reference to a sine wave, means ANYTHING that puts ANY KIND of "bumps" in an otherwise perfectly drawn sine curve. The more of this there is in a power input, the more expensive the powered device needs to be. Again, not a good business choice.

Hope this didn't get too far afield, just trying to clarify a few points... Steve
 
  
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Steve that was more along the lines of my understanding. But this is farther than I've ever investigated generators in the past.

Category 5 Electric Start Generator — 9375 Watts, Wireless Remote Control, EPA and CARB-Compliant, Model# 41535 | Portable Generators| Northern Tool + Equipment $949 + $193 ship = $1142

This "Category5" brand is a "Champion". Any thoughts on the "Champion" brand?

If the generator was nearby, outside a metal building, can a wireless remote operate the generator thru sheet metal building walls? Or do I have to stick the FOB outside to remote activate? I suppose it would be similar to locking a car with the FOB (which I've never tried), what conditions does this work?
 

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Been quite a few years since my work required the use of a scope, but this discussion is getting me curious -

I was always under the impression that ANY genny that produced AC power by means of a constant speed rotary AC generator, produced a SINE wave - If I get time (Trying to make space for a half-ton milling machine that's due Monday, and a left hand with 3 fingers temporarily out of commission) I'll drag out my scope and see if it even still works, and if it does maybe I can get a few pix of the waveform on my genny.

btw, the "modified sine wave" is usually just a square wave with a "slowed down" rise and fall time, done in lower cost UPS's and such because it's cheaper to build than a true sine wave generator (if you're doing it with electronics instead of rotary motion, that is) -

Mark, the term for that is "trapezoidal wave",named for the fact that each half-cycle looks like a trapezoid.

The reason for a trapezoidal wave (in ELECTRONICALLY generated power), besides lower cost to manufacture, is that a square wave contains essentially ALL ODD HARMONICS of the frequency being generated, which is DEFINITELY not good for the power transformers in the majority of devices. Among other things, it generates more HEAT in the transformer.

The trapezoidal wave, due to its slower rise/fall time, greatly reduces those harmonics. This means that a trapezoidal wave is BETTER for a transformer, but not necessarily good ENOUGH. In order for a transformer to handle non-sine power it needs to be bigger/heavier/more expensive. Not generally the direction most manufacturers wanna go...

Harmonic distortion, in reference to a sine wave, means ANYTHING that puts ANY KIND of "bumps" in an otherwise perfectly drawn sine curve. The more of this there is in a power input, the more expensive the powered device needs to be. Again, not a good business choice.

Hope this didn't get too far afield, just trying to clarify a few points... Steve
yes good explanation... thanks and yes would be interesting to see what your scope says... what kind of generator do you have? I have a Honda EU3000iS and am told it has good sine wave output but I have not had the need to run sensitive electronics on it but have wondered if it would cause havoc.
 
  
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No worries on the Honda inverter, not even a remote concern, it could be cleaner than your house power.
 

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My genny is a "Northstar Systems", powered by a Honda GX390 - electric start, except when it's sat awhile (maybe wimpy battery, it hasn't reached the top of my "G.A.S." list, 'cause the Honda starts first pull even after sitting for a year.) No inverter or remote, just the basics. It was $899 @ Costco about 3 years ago.

Sodo, remotes are next to impossible to predict - and as you know, metal walls don't help. You'll most likely have to try it in your situation. The only clue I got from your link was one customer saying,"starts from a long distance away." This kind of comment, to me, is worse than none at all - Is this customer a SLUG that can somehow talk and type (27 INCHES would be a long distance) - is he an IRON MAN competitor (couple MILES is fairly close) or something in between? Sheesh...:confused:

Having been in tech/scientific fields my entire life, I'm probably too picky wanting things actually QUANTIFIED ("The remote worked line of sight to 37 feet, but with a metal building wall in between, it quit responding at just over 9 feet", or something similar, might have been helpful...

Yeah, I know, picky picky picky - I'm just in a foul mood when I do some dumb-azz stunt that cost me a few weeks of restricted activity to heal :thumbdown: - OK, back to the shop to "putter" -

Oh, here's a random neuron fizzle - if your remote doesn't wanna make it thru the metal wall, AND you're OK with replacing a small section of wall with wood siding, AND that genny WILL start from far enough away thru a piece of plywood, that MIGHT be a possible "plan D"...
 

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Oh, you may wanna download the manual (your link) and search it on the word "remote" - read it carefully before you place your order...
 
  
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Oh, here's a random neuron fizzle - if your remote doesn't wanna make it thru the metal wall, AND you're OK with replacing a small section of wall with wood siding, AND that genny WILL start from far enough away thru a piece of plywood, that MIGHT be a possible "plan D"...

If you're willing to tax more neurons. Bukit if you've been coming up short lately don't burn any up on my account!:D But wondering what size hole in the metal wall will it go thru if I hold the FOB right at the hole? Do you know the wavelength (of the frequency used by that type of remote)?
 

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Oh, here's a random neuron fizzle - if your remote doesn't wanna make it thru the metal wall, AND you're OK with replacing a small section of wall with wood siding, AND that genny WILL start from far enough away thru a piece of plywood, that MIGHT be a possible "plan D"...
Good idea.

I wonder if you can remove the remote control part on the generator, (and extend the wires) to where it might reach the remote signal. Or just remove and extend the key swich.
 

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Read more on the manual, it says "within 80 feet" - bought a Heath/Zenith yard light from Homeless Despot a few years ago, claimed 100 foot range - got within 10 feet of it thru a single pane glass window before it worked. Took it back. YMMV is definitely at work here...

If the hole in metal wall is close to YOU(and the remote fob) then 4-6 inches square should negate the "Faraday cage" effect. If the genny is what's close to wall, probably a couple FEET square (centered on the receiver)

Dan's thought might be worth looking at, the manual describes the remote as being modular but doesn't go into much detail. It also doesn't give frequency, just that it's FCC listed.

It does, however, make me think that if you want the remote to work you should leave a trickle charger on the battery (powered from (too wimpy to run a welder) line supply - because in order for the remote to work at all, the battery has to be on (couple switches on the genny control panel) which would drain the battery if you kept in a "ready to start remotely" mode for more than maybe a couple days.

Oh, and my neurons are still OK, I just tend to them "fizzling" if I'm not sure the particular idea might not work :laughing:...Steve
 

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bukitcase makes a good point about leaving the remote recever on and draining the battery. I think it is intended to allow you to start/stop if you were on a job site and it would be a pain in the neck to run to the generator every time you want to use a saw.
 

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What kind of waveform to the welder/generators produce? Something like the Hobart champion/Miller Bobcat or Lincoln Ranger. I know that they are higher on their wattage output but not sure how clean their power is.

I bought my well used bobcat (not sure which iteration) with long leads and a pickup bed trailer for about 1200. Gobs of power plus the ability to stick weld if it will run your existing mig machines.
 

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As i see you have a tractor, maybe a alternator coupled to the PTO might be another affordable option(if they are in the same location obviously)
 

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Not to hijack the thread TOO much but what type stick welder would maybe work well with a 12KW Winco PTO generator?
 
  
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Its my understanding that to stick weld @ 150A, you need 7 or 8kw. 12kw is about 50% more power.
 

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12kw is lot's. For portability I'd get a 220 volt inverter. 200 amps would cover just about anything you'd need to do but you'd have enough power to run most machines up to about 300 amps.
 

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Steve that was more along the lines of my understanding. But this is farther than I've ever investigated generators in the past.

Category 5 Electric Start Generator 9375 Watts, Wireless Remote Control, EPA and CARB-Compliant, Model# 41535 | Portable Generators| Northern Tool + Equipment $949 + $193 ship = $1142

This "Category5" brand is a "Champion". Any thoughts on the "Champion" brand?

I haven't checked to see what the difference is, but this champion has the same rating, 7500 watts/9375 watts. Every now and then it will go on sale for $599. That's when I picked one up. I haven't used it for welding yet, but that's my plan. I have a Hobart 140 and I'm looking at getting PA200ST.

Champion Power Equipment Portable Gas Generator with Electric Start with 7,500 Running Watts, 9,375 Peak Watts and Wheel Kit

Price: $699
Amperage: 30 amps
Voltage: 240V
Wattage: 7,500W
Peak Wattage: 9,375W
Color: Yellow, Black
Start Type: Electric and Recoil
 

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Like Bukitcase, I have not scoped a generator but ever notice that small engines are usually governed to 3600 RPM. Directly spinning a generator = 60 Cycles \ sec (60Hz). I have a 7500peak 6250 running on a 13HP engine. Using the so called 30 amp 120Volt plug powering my SP125 (use it at home on a 20 amp circuit though spec is for 25 amp) the generator will pop a breaker from time to time. Probably comes down to quality of generator so do you buy a cheap 10K or an expensive 7.5 K?
 

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Like Bukitcase, I have not scoped a generator but ever notice that small engines are usually governed to 3600 RPM. Directly spinning a generator = 60 Cycles \ sec (60Hz). I have a 7500peak 6250 running on a 13HP engine. Using the so called 30 amp 120Volt plug powering my SP125 (use it at home on a 20 amp circuit though spec is for 25 amp) the generator will pop a breaker from time to time. Probably comes down to quality of generator so do you buy a cheap 10K or an expensive 7.5 K?
Good comment Dave... I learned to buy quality if I wanted to use it for more than a few times.
 

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Make sure you get a genny that has less than 5% THD, if you want to run a PA200 (or any electronics) on it. Ask Mark about it.
 

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Where do you find that info per a generator? I've been looking at various makes/models and cannot seem to find %THD listings anywhere? Should they be listed in the machine specs? What am I missing? Thanks for pointing me in the right direction if you can. Greg
 

Mark @ Everlast

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If it does not advertise it, it is not going to be clean...usually. That is a major selling point, and any generator company that doesn't state that it is clean, IF it is clean is loosing sales to others that do.

So if you don't see it stated, don't worry with it. Usually inverter generators are clean power. Most if not all of them first generate 3 phase power before it is "inverted" into a clean sine wave.

Total harmonic distortion % sometimes can be found in the manual specs or pdf/brochure specs. Or you can call the customer service line and they will tell you if it is a company worth their salt.
 

Gregster613

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Okay and thanks Mark. I wasn't sure if I was missing looking someplace special; I thought it should be listed within the specs, but it wasn't on the gens I was then looking at.
Also - I'm a bit of a dummy I guess - but, I don't really know what an "inverter" means/is. Could you sorta splain it some. I know that my Lincoln arc welder is an old transformer welder and I'm quite impressed by the PA models just don't understand the inverter reference. Greg
 

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Inverter generator or welder? There are both. I even have an inverter microwave.

Layman version as best as I can make it. Inverters take AC power, and break/chop it down into tiny pieces of DC power and then reassemble it into the wave form with the use of diodes/rectifiers and transistors (usually Mosfet, IGBT, or some sort of thyristors). In essence a big filter that lets power only pass in one direction instead of changing polarity. Most AC/DC welders that are transformers use some sort of rectifier to achieve DC power. Think of an AC sine wave then chop the tops off the sine wave close to the top and discard the rest. Then the top of a long sine wave resembles a long, flat dotted line...which is essentially DC but with some gaps. Most inverters goes further. It chops the tops and bottoms (positive and negative parts) off and "inverts" them to fill in the gaps somewhat. The transistors then takes this and reassembles this wave, into a straight (er) wave form switching at 10's of thousands cycles per second. It is usually then run through some "conditioners" such as capacitors, small transformers or special coils that smooth the DC out even further and creating even more of a straight line. Or it can take this DC wave and turn it back into AC sine wave that can be adjusted to any desired frequency (within reason). All of this is electronically managed of course.
One point I'd mention is that whether an inverter or transformer, you really don't have a 100% true DC straight line "wave". It's chopped up into many tiny little pieces of DC power. It's sort of like having a long line that at regular resolution looks solid, but as soon as you start putting it under a magnifying glass, you can see the tiny little breaks between each part of the line.
The difference in a rectifier system on a transformer welder is the smoothness of the DC and the shape of the AC wave form. The rectifier of the transformer has only 60 cycles per second to operate on and it leaves larger gaps between each component of the sine wave. An inverter provides cycle times is several hundred times faster than that, which can create a smoother, less noticeable gaps in the DC output. A DC generator like an SA 200 works off even a more pure DC output because of it's design. Some of your cheaper modern engine drive welders (cheaper ones) use an alternator basically and then convert it to DC for DC output.

An inverter generator produces AC power first, in 3 phases. The more phases used, the better the quality of power will be put out because there are more sine waves to work with creating a more consistent line of DC that can be converted back into a stable AC output.

This probably got a few errors in it as I am not an electronics engineer...
 

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Ooookaaay Mark, Like you - I am in no way an electrical engineer - but thank you much for laying it out in somewhat layman terms.

I did a search using "inverter - what is" - and got a shaky understanding of the idea after I'd already posted my question. So thanks for further clearing my cloudy head.

In reality, I have no clear understanding of the function except that they (inverter welders) come in a "small" package and can pack as much punch as an older model buzz-box for example. After I purchase an acceptable (less than 5% THD) generator to power my current AC 225 Lincoln stick welder, I will be in touch to inquire about a PA200 or PA300. I do like the idea of being able to use either 110 or 220 as a power source. Although my limited experience with welders has been with 220 powered buzz-boxes and stick welding thick metal.

I just wanted to glean some idea of what an inverter actually does and how it manages to do it. Thanks, Greg
 
  
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Greg, how many amps do you want to weld with? If you need the full range (225) you may need something like 11,000 watts.

It's my understanding that with about 7200Watts you can weld at about 150Amps. For my needs I'm planning on 8000W , maybe 10,000w generator. I'm not too worried about THD because the Miller tech said my MultiMatic 200 (an inverter welder) can tolerate almost any power source. He said any generator over 7200Watts will run the MM200 at the full power settings. Thats just my miller, I cant make any guesses about other inverters.
 

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After I purchase an acceptable (less than 5% THD) generator to power my current AC 225 Lincoln stick welder, I will be in touch to inquire about a PA200 or PA300. I do like the idea of being able to use either 110 or 220 as a power source. Although my limited experience with welders has been with 220 powered buzz-boxes and stick welding thick metal.

I just wanted to glean some idea of what an inverter actually does and how it manages to do it. Thanks, Greg

Greg, generators to run your Lincoln buzz box have to be big - to run an inverter they can be much smaller.
I run my Maxstar 150s inverter off a 5000/6250 generator for example.

But here is what Lincoln says about running the AC 225:

"It does appear (if you do the math) that you should be able to use 1/8 in. and smaller diameter electrodes with an AC/DC 225/125 powered by a 5000 or 6000 watt generator. Unfortunately, the design of the transformer on the AC/DC 225/125 is not efficient enough to be powered by a small generator. If you try and weld with this combination you will most likely experience the electrode being hard-to-strike and also the electrode frequently sticking to the work.

If you are fortunate to establish an arc, the arc will tend to pop out frequently. Also, there will not be adequate heat input to the work, resulting in low weld quality (poor fusion), and poor bead appearance.

To successfully run your AC/DC 225/125 welder you would need a minimum of a 15,000 watt AC generator."
 

newbury

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Not to hijack the thread TOO much but what type stick welder would maybe work well with a 12KW Winco PTO generator?

Its my understanding that to stick weld @ 150A, you need 7 or 8kw. 12kw is about 50% more power.
So 12KW should be good for 225amps ?

12kw is lot's. For portability I'd get a 220 volt inverter. 200 amps would cover just about anything you'd need to do but you'd have enough power to run most machines up to about 300 amps.
My understanding is that the THD on my Winco 12KW would be too great for an inverter generator.

Like Bukitcase, I have not scoped a generator but ever notice that small engines are usually governed to 3600 RPM. Directly spinning a generator = 60 Cycles \ sec (60Hz). I have a 7500peak 6250 running on a 13HP engine. Using the so called 30 amp 120Volt plug powering my SP125 (use it at home on a 20 amp circuit though spec is for 25 amp) the generator will pop a breaker from time to time. Probably comes down to quality of generator so do you buy a cheap 10K or an expensive 7.5 K?
Or what if you bought a cheap 10KW to power all your equipment and now specs have changed?


Good comment Dave... I learned to buy quality if I wanted to use it for more than a few times.
Unfortunately many of us buy "quality" only to find out years later it doesn't spec to new equipment. I bought my B7610 with a Hudson trailer in 2009,
tractor 015small.jpg
fully expecting I would need a trailer big enough for a 40 HP tractor later on.

20140427_103025.jpg
Only to find out it's a little small for the 50HP M4700 I bought in 2013.

Greg, generators to run your Lincoln buzz box have to be big - to run an inverter they can be much smaller.
I run my Maxstar 150s inverter off a 5000/6250 generator for example.

But here is what Lincoln says about running the AC 225:

"It does appear (if you do the math) that you should be able to use 1/8 in. and smaller diameter electrodes with an AC/DC 225/125 powered by a 5000 or 6000 watt generator. Unfortunately, the design of the transformer on the AC/DC 225/125 is not efficient enough to be powered by a small generator. If you try and weld with this combination you will most likely experience the electrode being hard-to-strike and also the electrode frequently sticking to the work.

If you are fortunate to establish an arc, the arc will tend to pop out frequently. Also, there will not be adequate heat input to the work, resulting in low weld quality (poor fusion), and poor bead appearance.

To successfully run your AC/DC 225/125 welder you would need a minimum of a 15,000 watt AC generator."
By
successfully run
do you think they mean at FULL rated specs? Because 12KW is close. And Lincoln tombstones are about as common as HF welders on CL.

And what's likely to happen with say an Everlast PA300 run on a Winco 12KW (or other "dirty" generator) ? Electrode sticking? Or TOTALLY fried electronics?
 

MinnesotaDaveChalmers

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By do you think they mean at FULL rated specs? Because 12KW is close. And Lincoln tombstones are about as common as HF welders on CL.

And what's likely to happen with say an Everlast PA300 run on a Winco 12KW (or other "dirty" generator) ? Electrode sticking? Or TOTALLY fried electronics?

If I owned a 12kw genny, I'd sure try it since those tombstones can be had for as little as $50 :D

I don't know about the Everlast units, but the Maxstar I have is rated for general "dirty" generators according to Miller tech.
 

newbury

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If I owned a 12kw genny, I'd sure try it since those tombstones can be had for as little as $50 :D

I don't know about the Everlast units, but the Maxstar I have is rated for general "dirty" generators according to Miller tech.

After research on other forums it seems the inverters are prone to blowing the electronics.
 
 
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