Helper Springs on Truck Question

[CurlyDave]

I have a 2000 F-150 that I use to tow two trailers. According to the manual, the max allowable trailer weight is 7400 lbs for my model. Both trailers have electric brakes and I have a Prodigy brake controller in the truck.

First trailer is an enclosed 16' one that I bought primarily to move my household goods from CA to Oregon. Five 500 mile trips later we are mostly moved, we saved a bundle over what a moving company would have charged, and we still own the trailer. This trailer is ~2500 lbs empty and has a max loaded weight rating of 7000 lbs.

The second is my "redneck hunting lodge" -- a 27 foot toy hauler with an empty weight of 6100 lbs. I doubt we load it with 1300 lbs of gear, although we might get over 1000. I travel with about 5 gallons of fresh water in the tank, unload gear and fill with water once we are at camp.

The toy hauler does not tow well with a low tongue weight. It fishtails easily and seems very unstable unless I get the tongue weight up well over 1000 lbs (estimate, based on how hard it is to use the tongue jack)

Even though I have a load-distribution hitch, the toyhauler causes the rear of the truck to drop way down, and the front tilts up.

Other than a new truck, which would be nice, but is not in the budget, a potential answer seems to be air bag "helper springs". I bought a set of Firestone air bags which claim to increase the rear spring capability of the truck by 3000 lbs.

Now comes the question: Once I install the air bags, do I still use the load distribution bars on the hitch, or should I leave them off? Both trailers have them, but are they necessary with the helper springs?

 

[Crash101]

Yes, use the weight distribution hitch. Your half ton pickup has a GVWR and a rear GAWR number listed on a sticker placed on the driver door jam. GVWR is nothing more than a manufacturer recommended maximum weight for the loaded truck. This loaded weight of course includes any weight placed on the hitch from an attached trailer. Whether you exceed the GVWR or not has no legal ramifications and is up to you. The (rear) GAWR is the maximum weight placed on the rear axle and MUST NOT be exceeded. Helper springs, bags, Timbrens or any other similar item added do not increase these numbers. They only help keep things level while staying within these numbers. Quite likely the toy hauler places a weight near, at or perhaps over this weight. Using the weight distribution hitch spreads some of the trailer's tongue weight across both axles and lessens the load on the rear.
You would do well to know what the GVWR and GAWR for your truck is, know what the actual weights are with the loaded trailer attached, with full fuel and passengers (worst case scenario) by weighing at a truck stop scale. This way you'll know what you can load, and how best to load it.
Also for that swaying, you have a balance to achieve, not too much weight on the rear of the tow hauler, too much dangerous sway. Not too much weight on the front of the hauler, too much tongue weight and too much weight on the truck axle. A good anti sway setup for the hitch would be a wise investment.
Get those actual weight numbers and let us know how it all comes out...

 

[Egon]

Curly, I have air bags on our truck and also always use the weight distributing hitch.

I measured the height of the inside rear fender wells on the truck when it was empty and try and inflate the air bags to maintain this height.

We also used our trailer to move.

 

[Reg]

I would try it without (the load distributing bars), subject to not overloading your truck's rear axle or rear tires as already mentioned.
ONE really NICE thing about air springs is that you can have your headlights aimed properly whether you are trailering or not.
In fact headlight aim is a good check of air spring pressure once your loaded trailer is hooked up.
Somehow I get the sense that you won't be able to get the right air spring boost AND the right WDH spring tension at the same time,
the theory of mutually interfering solutions, etc.

If the RNHL has tandem axles you could experiment with front/rear axle loads on that as well as hitch load and stability by raising/lowering the hitch ball, this happens with air springs or load re-distributing hitches anyway, since they raise the ball (allow it to drop less).
The higher the ball the more load the trailer's rear axle takes, the truck squats lower because the tongue load is higher, the trailer is more stable, the steering might become "light", etc.

 

[Bird]

Even though I have a load-distribution hitch, the toyhauler causes the rear of the truck to drop way down, and the front tilts up.

The first, and in my opinion, most important problem is that you obviously do NOT have the weight distributing hitch adjusted correctly, OR you have the wrong lift bars. You do want 10%-15% of the trailer's gross weight as hitch weight which means at least 600-900 pounds. Now you say you think your hitch weight is 1,000 pounds. That's OK, but with your weight distributing hitch, do you have the 500 pound, 750 pound, or 1,000 pound lift bars? With the proper lift bars and properly adjusted, both truck and trailer will be sitting level.

And otherwise I agree with Crash101.

 

[Skyco]

Bird is right- most people, even dealers, do not get that the weight distribution bars come in different ratings. BTDT swapped bars, luckily I had a friend with too heavy of bars and mine were too light, now we both are good.
BTW I'd be really curious if you have actually weighed your toy hauler or are going on manufacturers "specs". As has been discovered the hard way by many, quite a few RV makers fudge and their products weight is WAY over what they state...

I have the air bags on my F350 and love them, I also have a 25 ft toy hauler that is very front heavy, all the appliances, bathroom etc is up front. Unless you have a lot of toys in the back mine is one heavy load on the hitch, I measured over 1000 lbs empty....which really for a 6000+ lb trailer is about right.

 

[Diamondpilot]

BTW I'd be really curious if you have actually weighed your toy hauler or are going on manufacturers "specs". As has been discovered the hard way by many, quite a few RV makers fudge and their products weight is WAY over what they state...

Boat manufactures do the same thing. They know most buyers will look for a light boat with a big motor. They are also have to deal with the tow weight of the boat. The worst I have ever seen was a boat I picked up just outside of Pittsburgh to bring back to Indiana. They paperwork claimed it was about 12,000# on the trailer. I drove 3 miles down the road and went to a DOT weight station and it was just over 16,000#. I believe the prototype boat weighed that much but by the time they add all the goodies like bigger engines, generator, windlass anchor, stereo, TV/DVD, carpet, ect. Well you see. I am sure the same thing happens with RV's. Most people option them out high so the weight skyrockets.

Chris

 

[denmansoft]

The first RV (5th wheel) I bough was stated to weigh 4500# empty. We took it on a weekend try run with 20lb food, 20lb clothes, full propane, half water. It seemed too heavy for the truck so we weighed at the scales on the way home. #5368 total for the trailer.
Our purchase was based on a weight for my Dakota so we took it back and got one 1 foot shorter that actually weighed in at #4700. Much better.
I can't imagine how they came up with the #4500 number because there was no A/C or other heavy options on it.

 

[Bird]

Sometimes the RV manufacturers fudge the numbers while sometimes it's the buyer who causes it to go overweight. In Texas, at least, they quit using the manufacturers' weight figures for registering RVs. Instead, you have to get a weight ticket from a certified scales to register a new one. Naturally, it's cheaper if you weigh it when it's new and empty. I didn't know about that change in the laws when I bought a motorhome in Las Vegas and came back to Texas to register it and we were living in it full time so we probably had an extra 5k pounds of food, clothes, water, fuel, tools, accessories, and other personal belongings which cost me on the initial registration, but at least I was still within its rated gross vehicle weight and axle weights.

Of course, we had first bought a 32' CarriLite 5th wheel, but besides living in it full time and having all our stuff in it, when I bought it, I had the dealer add a generator, awhing, and washer/dryer, and of course it had air-conditioning, so I found I was actually over the rating for the axles, so I changed the entire suspension.

 

[Renze]

I measured the height of the inside rear fender wells on the truck when it was empty and try and inflate the air bags to maintain this height.

At the previous company i worked for, we had a customer that bought a brand new Toyota Tundra (grey import) just for fun, not for work.
We installed him air bags, inflated to the point they just lifted the vehicle out of the leaf springs. He said this gave him a way smoother ride than bouncing around on the leafs, with no load in the bed.