How soon is soon enough for Super UDT2 in Front Axle ?

   #1  

DonaldP

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oil color comparison photo.jpg




I was shocked ...

L3560, 14 months old. 400 hours all on my watch, and first change of the hydraulic and front axle oil.

The 3 containers are old Pepsi plastic containers so there is no difference in the clarity of the plastic. I backlit top down above the containers with a sheet of white paper behind the bottles to show the difference in the color of the oil. I caught the oil as it poured out of the front end, and the transmission - before it hit anything else (old used oil catch containers).

The results are amazing, as are the fragments of metal and silicon sealing materials stuck in the hydraulic magnet of the ingress side of the hydraulic filters.

A picture tells a thousand words here.

I was shocked to see Bronze/Brass material floating in the front axel oil as it was drained. It was as if someone took powdered metal filings and dumped them into the oil.

There is nothing more disturbing than to see this kind of wear internally in the front axle on a 1 year old Grand L 3560 with 400 hours used around our property. We use the front loader (805) for lifting mostly IBC totes for firewood for our home, and lifting logs to cut down into rounds so we can split them into firewood.

We have also done some excavation work on a driveway of about 150ft by 20ft, removing about 60 ton of material and placing it in another area in the yard for building the barn on. I can't believe that kind of wear is from that use and weight on the front end. If it is, then we may need to do something else over using the tractor for what it's intended to be used for?

We just started mowing this summer, and had only used the PTO for a post hole attachment previous to this. The Hydro Fluid looks somewhat beat up, I suppose I would feel that way too if I were stuck holding and gripping and lifting stuff all day for 14 months!

Yes we have a grapple that we use about 60% of the time for firewood prep, but other than that it's just driving and carrying firewood for our 1800sq ft home. We also burn oil so we are not dedicating that 1800sq ft to all wood burning.

Maybe I'm just a little paranoid. What are your thoughts?

Its a Mad Mad Homestead!
 
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Midniteoyl

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Was there an initial filter change for the HST? Did it also have lots of metal in it?

That front oil does look dark though. Are you always in 4wd?
 
  
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DonaldP

DonaldP

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Thanks for your reply...

As for the Transmission, I have a few photos I will post here... let me find them.

The initial 50 hr and 200 hr hydraulic filters were changed... By the dealer. so I have no feedback or knowledge if there were any adverse materials in those filters at the designated changes.

All I do know is what I found in the filters at the time I changed them at 400 hours.

All of this was one of the main reasons I decided to do the 400 hour service myself. With lackluster performance from my dealer, the only way I could really tell if service was complete was when new parts (engine oil filter and hydraulic filters) were changed.

My guess would be that I would have had a 50/50 chance even with my new "Authorized Kubota" dealer that they would actually inform me of the issues related to the dark wear material in the front axel oil. It may have never crossed my plate if I hadn't seen it myself, although the bill for repair (just outside of the warranty coverage period) would surely hit my plate...

I am preparing the actual old oil material to have it looked at by the Kubota Service Rep for his review within the next two weeks. It will be interesting to see both their take on this and my new dealer.
 
  
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DonaldP

DonaldP

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I'd switch the front axle to a compatible gear oil. Gear oil has more anti wear additives. Manufacturers use tractor fluid because it's simpler for them.
Eric, thanks so much for your input... I've thought about that after seeing this, but I'm kind of caught up with the old Kubota required material for warranty purposes. I don't know yet if this old material is indeed out of spec, but I'm leaning towards that based on the silver/Brass metallic paint like material that makes the oil resemble a metallic paint over a protective oil.
 
  
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DonaldP

DonaldP

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Was there an initial filter change for the HST? Did it also have lots of metal in it?

That front oil does look dark though. Are you always in 4wd?
Wow excellent point!!!

Only about 25% to 30% of the time. So the wear, if that's the case, would not be form an aggressive use of 4wd.

I'm thinking that as with all vehicles and computers, if the Kubota dealer would be able to ascertain the amount of time the tractor is indeed in 4WD? That would answer their question for them if they are headed in that direction.

I guess my concern is that a Front axle in a condition to cause this kind of "spinoff" of material into the oil at 400 hrs might be a candidate for a front axle replacement over a rebuild... if the issue is terminal.
 
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Midniteoyl

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Remember that this the fronts first change and doesn't have the benefit of filters or a cooler, so it being darker and dirtier is a given. That said, it looks a little too dark to me, thus my 4wd question.

Problem is that the only way to actually tell if its wearing badly or per-maturely is to pull the axles I believe. Best is to do as @ericm979 suggests and put the recommended gear oil in it, preferably a synthetic with high EP additives, and keep an eye on the oil color.

You also might wanna think about a little more counter weight in on the 3pt to help lighten the front axles load a bit.
 
   #8  

RjCorazza

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I switched to synthetic gear oil at 50 hours in my past 2 Kubota tractors. At 400h the gear oil looked similar to new oil, perhaps a shade darker, but I didn't so a side by side backlit comparison.

I personally would not worry too much about how dark the sudt2 was in the photo. You could send a sample out for analysis to see how it compares to similar applications that may be on file. I doubt Kubota will give you a real answer, particularly if it involves disassembly to inspect.
 
  
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DonaldP

DonaldP

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I switched to synthetic gear oil at 50 hours in my past 2 Kubota tractors. At 400h the gear oil looked similar to new oil, perhaps a shade darker, but I didn't so a side by side backlit comparison.

I personally would not worry too much about how dark the sudt2 was in the photo. You could send a sample out for analysis to see how it compares to similar applications that may be on file. I doubt Kubota will give you a real answer, particularly if it involves disassembly to inspect.
I'm torn RJ...

I believe the manufacturer has specific requirements to adhere to within the warranty period. They could just look the other way, but if the consumer has viable material to support from the onset that there were issues inclusive to the warranty period of detrimental affects of warranted parts... well then they would need to show good cause for not taking action once they were informed of an issue.

I have read law cases pointing to "under warranty" claims that the manufacturer could not repair other than with continual replacement of parts up to and until the warranty expires. In those cases, the manufacture was liable for delivering a product that was not effectively "repaired" or "repairable".

Continued replacement of parts during the warranty period did not constitute a clean warranty repair of the offending issue returning to the consumer a "no longer defective unit".

It only provided the relief of more consistent replacements of the same parts causing the issue to return again and again and again. The manufacture was found to be at fault. So, there is some protection for the consumer in light of this.
 

RjCorazza

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My L4060 specifies either sudt2 or SAE 80 - SAE 90 gear oil for the front axle.
I guess bringing attention to a potential problem would be of benefit down the road if the axle has issues.

Other than wanting to avoid them, I am not that well versed in the legal issues surrounding warranties.
 
  
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DonaldP

DonaldP

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Remember that this the fronts first change and doesn't have the benefit of filters or a cooler, so it being darker and dirtier is a given. That said, it looks a little too dark to me, thus my 4wd question.

Problem is that the only way to actually tell if its wearing badly or per-maturely is to pull the axles I believe. Best is to do as @ericm979 suggests and put the recommended gear oil in it, preferably a synthetic with high EP additives, and keep an eye on the oil color.

You also might wanna think about a little more counter weight in on the 3pt to help lighten the front axles load a bit.
I agree, but am reticent to provide what some might call a work around (add more aft weight over the loaded tires). If I'm using the unit out of spec... ie lifting more than its designed to lift, well then there is a conundrum isn't there?

It's an L805 loader designed to be used on the Grand L 3560 chassis. If the specified load bearing capacity of the 3560 is not capable of handling the load specified without blowing out the bearings, then shouldn't the loader be decreased in weight bearing capacity down to a level that would prevent the degradation of the bearings at the stated load?
 
  
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DonaldP

DonaldP

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My L4060 specifies either sudt2 or SAE 80 - SAE 90 gear oil for the front axle.
I guess bringing attention to a potential problem would be of benefit down the road if the axle has issues.

Other than wanting to avoid them, I am not that well versed in the legal issues surrounding warranties.
I hear you... I have never traveled down this road before either... I would prefer to not walk down a dark path in an unknown area with no way to protect myself.
 
  
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DonaldP

DonaldP

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Send a sample to Blackstone labs, that looks unusually dark in my experience.
And they will tell me what? Are they pretty specific? Will they say there is .005% (or some percentage) of a material that's not indicative of normal wear?

Or will they ascertain the specific quantities of differing materials that make up the slurry to show that there is bearing or other material wear?
 

BeezFun

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And they will tell me what? Are they pretty specific? Will they say there is .005% (or some percentage) of a material that's not indicative of normal wear?

Or will they ascertain the specific quantities of differing materials that make up the slurry to show that there is bearing or other material wear?
They give you a chemical analysis and an interpretation of the results. So for example, when I sent in transmission fluid from our minivan, they told me it was just showing signs of needing to be changed but I could probably run it another year. They tell you if they find different traces of metals and what that probably means in terms of a bearing or bushing starting to fail. I would say it's well worth the money.
 
  
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DonaldP

DonaldP

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Send a sample to Blackstone labs, that looks unusually dark in my experience.
Got it...

I ordered two test kits, one for the Axel oil, and one for the transmission. Once i get that back I may order another for the engine...

$30/test or $100 for all three.

It's a peace of mind thing with me. If I don't do it and something goes awry outside of the warranty period then shame on me. If I take care of it within the warranty then it protects both my equipment and Kubota. Its a win win for both parties.
 
  
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DonaldP

DonaldP

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They give you a chemical analysis and an interpretation of the results. So for example, when I sent in transmission fluid from our minivan, they told me it was just showing signs of needing to be changed but I could probably run it another year. They tell you if they find different traces of metals and what that probably means in terms of a bearing or bushing starting to fail. I would say it's well worth the money.
Your input here on this is probably one of the most positive and "get it done" bits of feedback I could have received on this. I had no idea there was such a place out there.

I know it won't drive Kubota to do anything until its verified by them, but it does prevent me from not knowing anything here at all.
 

fried1765

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Your input here on this is probably one of the most positive and "get it done" bits of feedback I could have received on this. I had no idea there was such a place out there.

I know it won't drive Kubota to do anything until its verified by them, but it does prevent me from not knowing anything here at all.
There are several oil analysis labs, though Blackstone is the one most commonly known.
I had them do oil analysis on my marine transmissions at every 100 hours, since I suspected a problem was coming.
I headed it off, and replaced both transmissions, rather than risk being stranded in the Bahamas.
 
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Midniteoyl

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I agree, but am reticent to provide what some might call a work around (add more aft weight over the loaded tires). If I'm using the unit out of spec... ie lifting more than its designed to lift, well then there is a conundrum isn't there?

It's an L805 loader designed to be used on the Grand L 3560 chassis. If the specified load bearing capacity of the 3560 is not capable of handling the load specified without blowing out the bearings, then shouldn't the loader be decreased in weight bearing capacity down to a level that would prevent the degradation of the bearings at the stated load?

Loader manuals call for counter ballast of some kind, with those that I have seen recommending the 3pt kind first and then adding rear wheel weight as needed.

Yours says 'in the form of 3pt counter weight and rear wheel' then proceeds to say that wheel may not be required with the proper 3pt ballast. While not specifically saying it, as far as I can find, the implication is to use a 3pt ballast.


Having just loaded tires will help with forward tipping of the tractor and traction, but does nothing with helping unload the front axle like having weight out past the rear tires on the 3pt will.

Not saying I disagree with your assertion, but common practice is having some form of 3pt ballast while using the loader.
 

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Did you ask the dealer what they put in the front axle?
Then ask for a sample of what he put in your front axel.
Maybe he didn't even change it???

willy
 

the old grind

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When you rebuild something (engine, car/truck, m'cycle, trans, etc) the first oil change is likely to show the most detritus/swarf, plug a filter in the fewest miles/hours, etc. By 400 hrs I'd have changed hydro and engine oil & filters a few times. If this is the first time the front axle has been drained I wouldn't be surprised to see it dark. I suggest checking color again 50 hrs or so after a fluid change.
 

Williy

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When I changed the oil and tranny fluid the filters
were clean after 50 hours and the oil in the front
axel looked OK but changed it anyway
In fact the tranny fluid looked new I never change
the tranny fluid in my truck unless it starts changing color. Also I don't believe you really need to change the axel juice as years ago we never change axel fluid unless the gears. bearings were replaced. I replaced the axel fluids in my truck with approx 115,000 miles and
used a magnet but found nothing!
Dealership says you should change every 20,000 miles just more money for them

willy
 
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DonaldP

DonaldP

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Did you ask the dealer what they put in the front axle?
Then ask for a sample of what he put in your front axel.
Maybe he didn't even change it???

willy
Well I'm assuming it was probably Super UDT2 as that's what Kubota recommends. If it wasn't, then that could be some of the confusion on color for sure!!
 
  
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DonaldP

DonaldP

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When you rebuild something (engine, car/truck, m'cycle, trans, etc) the first oil change is likely to show the most detritus/swarf, plug a filter in the fewest miles/hours, etc. By 400 hrs I'd have changed hydro and engine oil & filters a few times. If this is the first time the front axle has been drained I wouldn't be surprised to see it dark. I suggest checking color again 50 hrs or so after a fluid change.
Good recommendation! I was thinking 200 for the next change, but it may very well need more before that!
 
  
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DonaldP

DonaldP

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There are several oil analysis labs, though Blackstone is the one most commonly known.
I had them do oil analysis on my marine transmissions at every 100 hours, since I suspected a problem was coming.
I headed it off, and replaced transmissions, rather than risk being stranded in the Bahamas.
Pro-active!!!
 

Williy

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NEVER ASSUME ANYTHING!

It makes an "ASS" out of "U" and "ME"

willy
 

TMGT

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Well I'm assuming it was probably Super UDT2 as that's what Kubota recommends. If it wasn't, then that could be some of the confusion on color for sure!!
My dealer uses 80-90 for the front axle, when I bought my B it came with 80-90 from the dealer. My L3240 I bought used and was maintained by a different dealer, it had 80-90 in it when I got it so it is a possibility yours doesn't have SUDT2, should be able to find out from your selling dealer if you bought new.
 

MHarryE

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On my L5740, I thought an excellent name brand synthetic gear oil would be better for my front end, so at first change I went to 75W-140. About 200 hours later the first wheel bearing failure - and 50 hours after that the other side. My L6060 is now nearing 800 hours using only SUDT-2. One caveat - the L5740 probably did a lot more loader work as I now have a SVL-75-2 that is my real loader toy. But your axle oil really does not look out of line for first change from the unfiltered front.
 

DieselBound

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Kioti says regular gear oil (sorry, don't have the weight spec in my head) OR hydralic fluid: not sure what it says in my Kubota manual. I suspect that regular gear oil was in the front axle. I see no way that SUDT could turn to that color w/o having some signficant damage, likely seals (what else could impart black/dark like that?), but that would seem to result in an external sign of leaks. Without knowing what the dealer used one cannot say for sure.

I drained the fluid out of my B7800's front axle (trying to remember whether I'd ever done so [was good about everything else]) and I am sure that it didn't look dark like that. And mind you, we're talking a LOT more hours; and, I doubt that anyone has worked a tractor harder than I've worked this B7800 (I won't go into describing what I've done because people will start sniping away that it's "abuse").

If you haven't sent a sample to the lab yet I'd recommend making a note that you're not sure what fluid that is (probably OK to state that it could be either one or the other).
 

Red Eye

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Same use as me, and my bearings in the front end failed twice in 4000 hours. Now I run a 1500 lb ballast box and no more dirty oil or failures.
 

alpha&omega

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A couple caveats to what other have posted. First, as @BeezFun mentioned, the use of Blackstone Labs was the first thing I thought about when you mentioned metal in the front axle fluid. I have used those guys for testing the Tranny fluid, Diff Fluid and the Engine oil in my Denali as well as the oil in Grand National. They are a reputable company, very professional and pride themselves in their work.
Second, @Williy brought up a point that also came to mind. Are you the first owner of this tractor? How many hours were on it when you bought it? Could someone have put something like “Royal Purple” gear oil in the front end, which would be obvious reasoning behind the color. However, this would not explain the metal shavings. After it settles out, if it looks more like a metal milkshake than gear oil that has metal shavings in the bottom of the container, then I would be worried. If it were the latter of the two and this was the first time the oil had been changed, it wouldn’t be a complete shock because of the initial break in of the gears. Add in the fact that you have not been using a ballast box and that only adds more shavings and stress to the front end.

The two big questions I have for you is are your rear tires loaded (Rim Guard or otherwise) and does your front axle have a vent/breather tube (either somewhere at its highest point or built into the dipstick). Having owned both Kubota’s and Deere’s I have had issues with the front axles leaking as a result of high pressure. The recommended gear oil heats up and begins to build pressure within the housing; with nowhere to go it finds the weakest point - the rubber gasket for the wheel bearings - and viola a leak develops. This leak can in turn allow water to enter the housing via rain or moisture build up from the outside ambient air. Since water has a higher boiling point than gear oil and because the two don’t mix well the water will boil off (especially in 4WD), thus increasing the wear on the front end.
I’m not saying this or any of the other things I previously mentioned is your issue, but rather its something to be aware of, especially considering you already have a potential lingering problem.
Did you run any cleaner or new fluid through the front housing? With the front end lifted up, you can add some new/clean gear oil into the axle housing, slowly rotate the front wheels and then drain it. Do this once or twice to see if there is any additional sediment you may have missed. A couple good neodymium (rare earth) magnets near the drain plugs will help to collect any shavings. This will give you an idea as to how bad the problem is without tearing things apart.
If I had to guess the front axle fluid hasn’t been drained by the dealer and wasn’t changed until now, add the lack of rear ballast during front end work and hopefully that’s the cause for your wear. In either case, sending the fluids off to Blackstone will give you a good idea and basis for your next change.
In the event Kubota doesn’t “feel the need” to warranty this problem, then I would consider that with the cost of the fluid, you could potentially make draining the front axle an “end of year item” - not just for preventive maintenance but also for your peace of mind. Hopefully this helps. Please keep us posted of your results. Most guys post a problem and then never come back to post their results, which could have helped someone else who is in the same or a similar situation.
 

orezok

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Kioti says regular gear oil (sorry, don't have the weight spec in my head) OR hydralic fluid: not sure what it says in my Kubota manual. I suspect that regular gear oil was in the front axle. I see no way that SUDT could turn to that color w/o having some signficant damage, likely seals (what else could impart black/dark like that?), but that would seem to result in an external sign of leaks. Without knowing what the dealer used one cannot say for sure.

I drained the fluid out of my B7800's front axle (trying to remember whether I'd ever done so [was good about everything else]) and I am sure that it didn't look dark like that. And mind you, we're talking a LOT more hours; and, I doubt that anyone has worked a tractor harder than I've worked this B7800 (I won't go into describing what I've done because people will start sniping away that it's "abuse").

If you haven't sent a sample to the lab yet I'd recommend making a note that you're not sure what fluid that is (probably OK to state that it could be either one or the other).
I too have a 17 year old B7800. I too have abused it well beyond its specifications. Lifting 40% more than the loader specs state. Backdragging with the bucket full dumped. Tilling with a tiller that greatly exceeds specs for HP and weight and in 17 years I have only had 2 repairs. A leaking rear axle seal and a treadle centering bearing. Total cost for me to repair was less than $50.

This thing is a beast.

I do follow manufacture service specs.
 

JRH02

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I switched to synthetic gear oil at 50 hours in my past 2 Kubota tractors. At 400h the gear oil looked similar to new oil, perhaps a shade darker, but I didn't so a side by side backlit comparison.

I personally would not worry too much about how dark the sudt2 was in the photo. You could send a sample out for analysis to see how it compares to similar applications that may be on file. I doubt Kubota will give you a real answer, particularly if it involves disassembly to inspect.

On larger stuff it is a given that lube samples will be collected and the results correlated with the data from the Mfr's data on what part is made from what material and what is showing up in the oil. It is a really accurate way to identify what is wearing without a break down for a look see. I just did a full change out on a JD 410j and everything came back pristine. It is the first for the hyd and trans (ten years :oops:) and of course with std intervals with engine oil. The samples are cheap compared to the labor, materials, etc.

But I'm not sure if data is available for smaller units. I have an old B7100 manual that runs great but blows a bit of smoke under load and starts a bit hard in the winter due to compression. I don't bother with samples. If I'm suspicious I just change it out. BTW, its been on Mobile1 for many years. And I run it in everything I have. But for trans/hyd, just the spec petroleum.

But if you do a get a drain out with bunches of metal you know the damage is already done. Its way past the time for the "which part is it question." If any question it is "Am I doing even more damage that need not be by running it anyway?"

It doesn't sound good. The best you can do at this point is to shorten the change outs.
 

JRH02

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My thoughts jump to how positive are you that the dealer actually changed the axle oil in the first place?
Whether on a pickup or a working machine its pretty easy to tell if a drain plug has just been pulled. Just seeing a new filter, it there is one, doesn't cut it. You have to crawl under it and look. If a mechanic wipes the spot or even put a tool in it so it looked like it was done, well, there's not much you can do about that. That's why I do my own stuff. For the big stuff I call my SIL who is a Cat mechanic. If he screws up I'll apply a large, in arrears, dowry and cut off his hunting access (wink). But he is a cool guy.
 

alpha&omega

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Tractor
John Deere - 3046R/3038E Kubota - B3200
Whether on a pickup or a working machine its pretty easy to tell if a drain plug has just been pulled. Just seeing a new filter, it there is one, doesn't cut it. You have to crawl under it and look. If a mechanic wipes the spot or even put a tool in it so it looked like it was done, well, there's not much you can do about that. That's why I do my own stuff. For the big stuff I call my SIL who is a Cat mechanic. If he screws up I'll apply a large, in arrears, dowry and cut off his hunting access (wink). But he is a cool guy.
Exactly!
If anything of mine needs to go to the stealership for work or a mechanic for that matter, I use a paint marker on the item to be repaired/replaced. This means that the new OEM part that I bought would or would not have been changed out. Same goes for a tire rotation.
 

ljjhouser

Platinum Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2018
Messages
838
Location
Midwest
Tractor
Kubota L4701
Glad you posted this. After reading you OP post. I checked my oil. I follow the manual with all work. I called the dealer about the inital filter change. He told me to just check for metal on the magnet - if no metal, clean it and don't change filter. I am 300 hours. I checked my front axle oil and it looks like yours. dark. But no indication of much metal or particles. So I went ahead and changed the oil at 300. Might do it again at 500 or maybe 600 just to keep it clean. The transmission looks clean - hard to see on the dipstick - I will change it at 400 like the manual.
 

quarencia

Silver Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2007
Messages
103
Location
NW Connecticut
Tractor
Kubota BX2230 & B3200
In my experience, ballast recommendations from manufacturers have nothing to do with front axle loading and everything to do with liability from tipping and roll over. That’s why they recommend either three point ballast or loaded tires. There are dealers who won’t sell a loader without three point ballast or filled tires. When I’ve checked on a couple of past tractors I’ve owned, the front axle was rated beyond the applied forces of a fully loaded loader. I doubt ballast is a requirement for the front axle warranty…but I’d have to read the entire warranty to be sure. And how could the manufacturer prove one way or another wether you used ballast? In some specific situations, they may be able to prove overloading thru fracture or metallurgical analysis (of the worn part, not the metal in the oil). Doing that analysis definitively would almost certainly cost the OEM more than replacing the axle. Of course the opposite is true as well. If OE said no to warranty, could an owner afford the analysis to prove it was faulty design/manufacture/maintenance? If I got to the point of having to spend money to try force warranty coverage, I’d probably try to negotiate a new axle at cost and install it myself.

And for the record, I always use ballast with a loader. Currently have beat juice in rear tires of my B3200.
 

RickB

Super Star Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2000
Messages
15,206
Location
Up the road from Dollar General WNC
Tractor
Just a Scag
Ballast of any kind in any location it is NOT a precondition for warranty coverage for New Holland, CaseIH, Kubota, Mahindra, Kioti or Kubota tractors. I won't speak to any other brands because I have no direct knowledge.
 

deamer1

New member
Joined
Jul 1, 2011
Messages
11
Location
Central Illinois
Tractor
IH 656 + Farmall 200 + Kubota M7040HST
View attachment 712965



I was shocked ...

L3560, 14 months old. 400 hours all on my watch, and first change of the hydraulic and front axle oil.

The 3 containers are old Pepsi plastic containers so there is no difference in the clarity of the plastic. I backlit top down above the containers with a sheet of white paper behind the bottles to show the difference in the color of the oil. I caught the oil as it poured out of the front end, and the transmission - before it hit anything else (old used oil catch containers).

The results are amazing, as are the fragments of metal and silicon sealing materials stuck in the hydraulic magnet of the ingress side of the hydraulic filters.

A picture tells a thousand words here.

I was shocked to see Bronze/Brass material floating in the front axel oil as it was drained. It was as if someone took powdered metal filings and dumped them into the oil.

There is nothing more disturbing than to see this kind of wear internally in the front axle on a 1 year old Grand L 3560 with 400 hours used around our property. We use the front loader (805) for lifting mostly IBC totes for firewood for our home, and lifting logs to cut down into rounds so we can split them into firewood.

We have also done some excavation work on a driveway of about 150ft by 20ft, removing about 60 ton of material and placing it in another area in the yard for building the barn on. I can't believe that kind of wear is from that use and weight on the front end. If it is, then we may need to do something else over using the tractor for what it's intended to be used for?

We just started mowing this summer, and had only used the PTO for a post hole attachment previous to this. The Hydro Fluid looks somewhat beat up, I suppose I would feel that way too if I were stuck holding and gripping and lifting stuff all day for 14 months!

Yes we have a grapple that we use about 60% of the time for firewood prep, but other than that it's just driving and carrying firewood for our 1800sq ft home. We also burn oil so we are not dedicating that 1800sq ft to all wood burning.

Maybe I'm just a little paranoid. What are your thoughts?

Its a Mad Mad Homestead!
 

deamer1

New member
Joined
Jul 1, 2011
Messages
11
Location
Central Illinois
Tractor
IH 656 + Farmall 200 + Kubota M7040HST
Just a note on your Hyd. oil change. I have a Kubota M7040 with FEL. we just completed our 700 hour items, one of which is a Hydralic oil change, filters etc. same as you completed. Our Hyd oil from both the transmission and the front axle was more like your photo on the right side. We did not experience anything like your center photo or your description of metal shavings. Just a normal Hyd. oil change with filter changes. We did clean the magnets very well which are with the oil filters.
Enjoy your week. Good luck to you.
Deamer1
 

bulldog69

Silver Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2010
Messages
158
Location
Rocky Face, Georgia, USA
Tractor
Kubota L 3000DT/ M 9000 DTC
I've bought 3 new tractors and changed all the fluids and filters @50 hrs. It's expensive, especially on a big M series but piece of mind is priceless.
 

JRH02

Bronze Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2020
Messages
50
Location
PNW, canyons and forest.
Tractor
Kub B7100 manual; JD410J
And for the record, I always use ballast with a loader. Currently have beat juice in rear tires of my B3200.
I can't afford any new stuff with a warranty. So I care for it so it lasts to the next generation.

But this ballast thing is curious. I have ballast in both tractors, front and back, and I do that so we don't end up at the bottom of the canyon. I don't get how ballast and warranties are an issue. If anything I would think they'd count ballast against you because the tractor should be rated for how it sits on the floor. If you add ballast you can over do things and that's what they could use to come against you.

Forgive me, when you are buying you can do anything. When you claim a warranty failure there is no end to stupid stuff and exclusions made up on the fly.
 

Tony H

Platinum Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
520
Location
Summit, NY
Tractor
JCB MIDI CX
View attachment 712965



I was shocked ...

L3560, 14 months old. 400 hours all on my watch, and first change of the hydraulic and front axle oil.

The 3 containers are old Pepsi plastic containers so there is no difference in the clarity of the plastic. I backlit top down above the containers with a sheet of white paper behind the bottles to show the difference in the color of the oil. I caught the oil as it poured out of the front end, and the transmission - before it hit anything else (old used oil catch containers).

The results are amazing, as are the fragments of metal and silicon sealing materials stuck in the hydraulic magnet of the ingress side of the hydraulic filters.

A picture tells a thousand words here.

I was shocked to see Bronze/Brass material floating in the front axel oil as it was drained. It was as if someone took powdered metal filings and dumped them into the oil.

There is nothing more disturbing than to see this kind of wear internally in the front axle on a 1 year old Grand L 3560 with 400 hours used around our property. We use the front loader (805) for lifting mostly IBC totes for firewood for our home, and lifting logs to cut down into rounds so we can split them into firewood.

We have also done some excavation work on a driveway of about 150ft by 20ft, removing about 60 ton of material and placing it in another area in the yard for building the barn on. I can't believe that kind of wear is from that use and weight on the front end. If it is, then we may need to do something else over using the tractor for what it's intended to be used for?

We just started mowing this summer, and had only used the PTO for a post hole attachment previous to this. The Hydro Fluid looks somewhat beat up, I suppose I would feel that way too if I were stuck holding and gripping and lifting stuff all day for 14 months!

Yes we have a grapple that we use about 60% of the time for firewood prep, but other than that it's just driving and carrying firewood for our 1800sq ft home. We also burn oil so we are not dedicating that 1800sq ft to all wood burning.

Maybe I'm just a little paranoid. What are your thoughts?

Its a Mad Mad Homestead!
3500 front axle are very weak when using FEL for anything but hay. Google 'Kabota front axle bearings'. Neighbor is way on top of maintenance on his, with that said, he's torn up his front axle twice in 1700 hours. First time he had a weep on the axle ends. 2nd time the wheel dropped without warning.
 
  
  • Thread Starter
#48  
OP
DonaldP

DonaldP

Silver Member
Joined
May 15, 2020
Messages
245
Tractor
Kubota L3560
Just a note on your Hyd. oil change. I have a Kubota M7040 with FEL. we just completed our 700 hour items, one of which is a Hydralic oil change, filters etc. same as you completed. Our Hyd oil from both the transmission and the front axle was more like your photo on the right side. We did not experience anything like your center photo or your description of metal shavings. Just a normal Hyd. oil change with filter changes. We did clean the magnets very well which are with the oil filters.
Enjoy your week. Good luck to you.
Deamer1
Your feedback is really very nice to know about. I have a feeling that something is awry wothmy fro g axel, although I haven’t my seen anything mechanical happen yet.
Im sure I will.
Thanks so much.
 

Metalman5767

New member
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Messages
8
Location
Athens, Alabama
Tractor
Kubota BX-23 & Kanga G-520
Looked at my front axle oil (while changing engine oil). My BX23 at 925 hours with minimal 4WD, the Super UDT looks like new. Not sure that helps much...
 

Midniteoyl

Elite Member
Joined
May 20, 2013
Messages
4,588
Location
N. W. Indiana
Tractor
Kioti CK3510SE HST, Ford 3400, Gizmow ZTR, Simplicity 7016H
I doubt ballast is a requirement for the front axle warranty…but I’d have to read the entire warranty to be sure. And how could the manufacturer prove one way or another wether you used ballast? In some specific situations, they may be able to prove overloading
The recommendation had nothing to do with warranty and everything to do with helping OP with unloading his front axle a bit as that *is normal practice*.

Using loaded rear tires is good for helping to prevent tipping forwards, as I said.

Using a 3pt ballast as well so the *much* beefer rear axle is the fulcrum instead of the front, is better.
 
 
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