Hydraulic Lines: Fear of Failure

[Short Game]

For fifteen years I used my little 27 horse Cub Cadet bucket forks as a saw buck. I have a bad back and can't do my bucking bent over logs on the ground. So, I have always held the log up at chest height and I just let the saw climb into the cut. I cut most of the way through (I've learned how much is too much) and then I deck the logs on the ground. When I roll them off the forks, usually the uncut portion will be on top, where I walk along and quickly finish the cuts. I end up with all my bucked logs in a deck where I then circle them with my box scraper-mounted homemade splitter. My box scraper also has a receiver hitch that tows my wood cart, so the split rounds nearly drop into the trailer. It's been a great system for this feeble old man. That little tractor lifted some pretty big logs, and never a problem with the hydraulics. There were a few logs it couldn't lift, but nothing ever broke.

The Cub Cadet is down for the count, waiting for a difficult engine repair. To keep going, I got a brand new 2010 R4010 gear LS. It has 41 HP and is a one third bigger machine, weight, and HP. I modified my bucket forks to fit the new bucket, and one of the first things I noticed was, I could not tip the bucket back with logs of larger size. Logs that the Cub could pick with ease, the LS can't manage. The first time I tried using the forks for my wood chore, I popped the lower right bucket hose with only several skinny pecker poles for weight. It sprayed oil all over me and thoroughly shocked me, as I have never popped a hose before. The dealer went to the local industrial supply and get a new hose made up for me. When I got it, I saw they had it made from the next larger size of hose.

Anyway, now I'm losing sleep, lying awake and thinking about the left side stock hose popping while I'm standing there bucking a log. It's not a pretty picture, that log rolling over me with my revving saw right there in front of my face.

So, I have two issues:
One is not trusting the stock hydraulic hoses.
The other is not enough power to tip the bucket back.

I have not yet tried to do any digging, but I'm wondering how poor a digging job it will do if I can't rotate that bucket up into a dirt bank. I fitted my Cub's bucket with a receiver hitch and I made a simple five foot boom of 2X2X1/4 square tube. I had plucked and moved a 300 pound anvil that flexed the tubing, but the Cub lifted it with no problem.

The other day, to make a covered place to park my rider mower, I built a stand for a simple homemade aluminum pickup canopy that weighed maybe 150 pounds. I spent the day mounting a receiver hitch setup for the LS bucket so I could use my boom to set the canopy in place. The FEL didn't have the bucket power to raise the boom. I could get it up with the up-and-down control, but I could not rotate the bucket back to get the extra lift I needed to do the job. The Cub and the LS have the same diameter cylinders to tilt the bucket.

I've already made up my mind to replace all three of the other lifting hoses with the bigger diameter tailor-mades, as I won't feel safe with the stockers any longer. But what's the deal with insufficient power to tip the bucket with any but a small load? This is unsatisfactory, especially when I look at the larger engine, and larger hydraulic pump, this LS has.

I have used the forks and bucket tilt on the Cub to push me back out of trouble, and even bent them doing it. This tractor could never do that with the power it has there now.

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I'm going to post this in the LS forum as well.

 

[techman]

A hose failure, such as you had, is rare and usually due to a problem in the crimping of the fittings on the end. Usually it was someone using the wrong fitting for the specific hose when it was assembled. It is nothing to lose sleep over. Going to a larger hose does not do anything to improve the strength or likelihood of failure. You should give the dealer a call and see if he has had other failures. Sometimes manufacturers can have a batch of bad hoses, but again it is extremely rare. Replacing all of the hoses is an extreme measure. If you pop another one, go back to the dealer. Otherwise I would save my money.

paul

 

[Short Game]

Thanks for the input, Paul

I suppose the idea of a bad batch of hoses remains. It did break at the end of the crimp. I look at all those identical hose ends to the one that popped and worry.

On the other issue, I guess I will need to learn how to check pressures and set reliefs. If everything is to spec, then I guess it means getting larger cylinders for the bucket if I want the power I had with the little Cub. Seems weird after getting a larger, more powerful tractor.

I look at what people are doing with their homemade boom poles, and remember what my Cub Cadet would do with mine, and I have to shake my head.

Bob

 

[Egon]

Consider making a support for the loader to rest on when cutting the firewood.:thumbsup:

 

[Short Game]

Consider making a support for the loader to rest on when cutting the firewood.:thumbsup:

Yup. I have that idea rolling around my brain cell. With my system, I can buck whole bunch of logs in a very short time. My general log length is 12'6" for the medium sized alder logs I deal with (12 to 18 inch diameters). So, I'm thinking of a couple of stand-alone props at the proper height to take the weight off the loader forks, supporting the ends of the logs while I do the bucking. Then I can just drive through to the bucked log deck. Since I do my firewood shows at various spots around 45 acres, not to mention helping the neighbor up the road, they'd need to be portable. For the shorter, fatter, logs that come up, I'd probably make a special, single, prop that I can jam under the bucket for just those few big logs.

 

[Egon]

That should work well.:thumbsup:

 

[J_J]

You should install a gage in the system and monitor the pressures. If the tilt function can not meet your expectations, then use the gage to help troubleshoot the hyd system. Check the PRV valve. Check the pump pressure, and then check the pressure that the cyl are producing.

Are the tilt cyl leaking/bad seals? Is the relief valve sticking? Maybe clean.

Switch the hoses from the tilt and the lift cyl's and see if there is any change.

If the cyl's are good and you can not meet specified pressure, then suspect a worn FEL valve.

Is the 3pt lever in the up most position? If it is, lower the 3pt lever a little and see if there is any change.

 

[MHarryE]

On the other issue, I guess I will need to learn how to check pressures and set reliefs. If everything is to spec, then I guess it means getting larger cylinders for the bucket if I want the power I had with the little Cub. Seems weird after getting a larger, more powerful tractor.

If all pressures check to spec, think over the loader strength before changing to larger cylinders. A loader would generally be designed to the maximum cylinder lift capability plus a factor of safety. The larger cylinders at the same pressure will give you more lift capability but at risk of buckling loader arms. The loader on my new tractor has loader arms with a lot deeper section in the highest stressed area than my old tractor/loader had - an indication the old model was not overdesigned. Remember steel is money so they don't put any more into it than they absolutely have to.

 

[J_J]

Short Game,

If the pressure is correct, and if the valves and cyl's are good, then you should have enough power to lift the front end off the ground, and you should be able to curl the bucket and lift the front end off the ground.

 

[wdchyd]

Short Game,

Making up "Taylor-made Larger Diameter Hoses" does not necessarily mean better.....of course they will deliver more oil but....

You must look at the pressure rating on the old vs new hoses......

Some hoses are 1-wire braid and some are 2-wire braid........when you go up in size inside dia, then the pressure rating drops in most hoses with the same reinforcement style.......

Look at the working pressure rating on the hoses.......Then you can feel safe with the new ones.....