hydraulic/transmission fluid

   / hydraulic/transmission fluid #1  

Raised on a Deere

Gold Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2013
Messages
314
Location
Lawrenceburg Ky
Tractor
Ford Dexta, Branson 6530c Yanmar Lx490 Power reverser
The owners manual for my cub cadet lx490 only mentions " Cub Cadet hydraulic/transmission fluid" No specs to go by or suggestions on substitutes. Dealer says tractor supply carries but local one does not.

Lost some fluid due to faulty hose connected rear remote.
Caught it in time to avoid emergency but i need to add some

What do you guys use. Dealer says important for warranty to use the Cub Cadet stuff.
 
   / hydraulic/transmission fluid #2  
Better get the cub stuff from dealer till you research the specs. Go to the oil guy. Com Web site. He may have info. Or answers. JOHN DEERE tells you the test specs on oil and what compliance to look for. Odd cub don't want you to know. Good chance though you could look at high grade oil, read back see if it says cub compliant.
 
   / hydraulic/transmission fluid #3  
Yanmar wants you to use their TF500 spec fluid. Here's a picture of two buckets my dealer gave me for my 50hr service. Note the bucket also says J20A for John Deere tractors. This fluid contains friction modifiers for wet brakes and clutches and is red in color.

J20A.jpg

So, TF500 is what you want to use to CYA in the event of a warranty issue. Could you use a UTF that meets the Yanmar spec like TSC's Premium UTF, or Castrol UTF? Probably.

Have I used something other than TF500 to top off my hydraulic fluid chambers? Let me state that I reserve the right to invoke my fifth amendment privilege. :laughing:
 
   / hydraulic/transmission fluid #4  
I use Kubota trans fluid because its same price as other premium brands. And if you are under warrantee, you don't want any hassles because you used some other brand. Although, supposedly this can not void a warrantee any longer.
 
   / hydraulic/transmission fluid #5  
Worth Reading, Who sells you parts after warranty is out ?
Scott


Many in our industry call it the yellow bucket. This is a generic term for tractor hydraulic fluid, a unique multifunctional lubricant primarily used in farm and industrial tractors. In short, it痴 a hydraulic fluid, transmission fluid and gear oil all in one, with U.S. demand estimated at 63 million gallons and valued at roughly $360 million in 2010. And while the term 土ellow bucket makes it all sound the same, it痴 anything but.

Numerous specifications define the performance of THF, and most are OEM specific. In fact, it痴 not unusual for a yellow bucket痴 label to list more than 25 specifications from as many as 14 OEMs, including Massey Ferguson, Allis-Chalmers, Case, Kubota, Caterpillar, Duetz, Dresser, New Holland and others.

These labels sporting well-known OEM brands and numerous specifications might look impressive, but in many cases they can be deceiving and misleading, since some of the citations are often obsolete. As a result, farmers and others may pay less per gallon, but could end up paying significantly more in equipment repairs if they buy their THF without reading and understanding the label.

Take for example the many THFs labeled as satisfying John Deere痴 JD-303 and JDM-20A specifications and Quatrol brand requirements. Deere dropped the JD-303 spec in the 1970s because it was based on sperm whale oil, which is illegal now to use as a lubricant. JDM-20A has been defunct since the early 1990s; it was superseded by JDM-20C. And listing 轍uatrol on labels can also be misleading since it was discontinued at the same time JDM-20A was deemed defunct. Deere has not monitored the quality of THF or claims relating to its specifications or brand names since the early 1990s, and this unfortunately has resulted in a free-for-all in the use of Deere nomenclature on labels and in how products are formulated.

Absent any policing, some blenders reportedly now take the additive package designed to meet JDM-20C and use it at a lower treat rate to make fluids they claim meet JDM-20A (the defunct spec). Since JDM-20C replaced the older JDM-20A specification, they seem to have surmised that they can simply down-treat with the JDM-20C package and hit the mark. These oils are then sold to unsuspecting farmers as a THF meeting the needs of older equipment. But according to those in the know, this blending logic is flawed.

What some blenders apparently do not understand (or choose to ignore) is that additive manufacturers did not have to change their additive packages when the specification changed from JDM-20A to JDM-20C. When Deere upgraded to JDM-20C, its primary aim was to capture the requirements of the Allison C-4 specification; it did this by adding an oxidation and seal test for the formulated lubricant. All of the other tests carried over from JDM-20A. As a result, THF additive packages met the new specification without reformulation, at the same treat rates. Thus, a down-treat of the JDM-20C packages likely yields a fluid that flunks the defunct JDM-20A performance requirements.

Others in the industry are more direct about their concerns with down-treating. Rather than an innocent error born from blenders aiming to meet the needs of older tractors, they say down-treating is a deliberate attempt by some to cut costs and capture sales on price. And blenders get away with it because no one is looking and few seem to care.

Even more worrisome, some see down-treating as just the tip of the THF iceberg. They point to the use of very low quality base oils (even line wash) to blend products that in some cases are not even close to meeting the hotor cold-temperature viscosity limits for these fluids. As a result, farmers using these THFs may be buying themselves cold-flow problems (starting, starvation, etc.) and/or hot operation problems (high pump leakage, excessive gear wear and others). In addition, their oxidation resistance may be very poor, and this could lead to deposits, sludging, oil thickening, shortened service intervals and reduced equipment life.

Another important issue that speaks to the depth and breadth of the problem can be seen by taking a closer look at the wording on THF labels. Many fluids on the market don稚 even say the products meet Deere, Case and other OEM specifications. Instead, they use such phrases as 途ecommended for, 田ommonly used, 鍍ypically used, or 田an be used where the following recommendations are made. Sound familiar?

There is little argument from Deere and others that down-treating, use of low-quality base oils, and weaselwording on labels is going on. Furthermore, there continues to be a market for these products and little wonder why. The THFs in question are priced well below legitimate products. As such, if marketers refuse to play the price game, they are boxed out of a significant volume of business. And they are not the only ones. Dealers also sell this lowprice/low-quality juice in an effort to meet the needs of their price-sensitive customers. And when the dealers themselves are selling it, it痴 tough to convince farmers that a cut-rate fluid may not meet specifications and could cost them much more in the long run.

With that said, one has to ask, 的s it too late to educate consumers and stop the tumbling of quality in THF? And beyond that, is there something we can learn from the THF mess and apply to other products left on the street with orphaned specs, like ATF?

(From the February issue of Lubes "N" Greases Magazine)
 
   / hydraulic/transmission fluid
  • Thread Starter
#6  
What nc red neck posted rings true. After not finding the cadet fluid I looked at some others and I was not reassured by the vagueness on their labels.

Thanks Katahdin , if I dont find the cub cadet stuff I will look for the TF500 spec stuff. Actually whichever I find first:) You dont need to plead the fifth. I quit wondering if people pee in the pool a long time ago
 
   / hydraulic/transmission fluid
  • Thread Starter
#7  
I chased all over the place and it got really weird asking for "Cub Cadet Hydraulic/Transmission Fluid," sorta like asking for a left handed monkey wrench or a tube of semaphore soap (IT SEEMED SOME WERE ACTUALY SELLING IT) . Finally returned to Alabama and went to my Yanmar dealer, a family business that has been with Yanmar through the gray market days into the modern era, sells lots of rigs with back hoes and of course was with them during Cub Cadet days. Now a Yanmar dealer. They sold me Warren 303 and the only spec on the can is that it meets Jd 303 and J-20A specs. That's what they use and all they had in stock. Assured me no warranty issues.

Haven't put in tractor yet, -- I go to KY in a few weeks but posted here FYI or for what ever reaction you may have.

I thought about just changing filter and if no surprises just continue with the oil already in the tractor but someone mentioned that upon draining theirs it looked surprisingly used. Don't tell anybody but mine has passed 50 hours and is sitting on about 70 at this time, so I cheated a little bit. That is my wickedness for the year:)

ON EDIT I did the other 50 hour services on schedule so you Warranty Police just pipe down. Not that I expect much of an uproar on the Yanmar thread.
 
Last edited:
   / hydraulic/transmission fluid #8  
I chased all over the place and it got really weird asking for "Cub Cadet Hydraulic/Transmission Fluid," sorta like asking for a left handed monkey wrench or a tube of semaphore soap (IT SEEMED SOME WERE ACTUALY SELLING IT) . Finally returned to Alabama and went to my Yanmar dealer, a family business that has been with Yanmar through the gray market days into the modern era, sells lots of rigs with back hoes and of course was with them during Cub Cadet days. Now a Yanmar dealer. They sold me Warren 303 and the only spec on the can is that it meets Jd 303 and J-20A specs. That's what they use and all they had in stock. Assured me no warranty issues.

Haven't put in tractor yet, -- I go to KY in a few weeks but posted here FYI or for what ever reaction you may have.

I thought about just changing filter and if no surprises just continue with the oil already in the tractor but someone mentioned that upon draining theirs it looked surprisingly used. Don't tell anybody but mine has passed 50 hours and is sitting on about 70 at this time, so I cheated a little bit. That is my wickedness for the year:)

ON EDIT I did the other 50 hour services on schedule so you Warranty Police just pipe down. Not that I expect much of an uproar on the Yanmar thread.

WHAT?? 20 hours over???:eek: hehe....I don't feel so bad, I'm 4 hours over.....:ashamed:lol. Now debating whether to change fluid or not with the varying opinions.....but I did buy 10 gallons of the Shell Rotella synthetic.....
 
   / hydraulic/transmission fluid
  • Thread Starter
#9  
WHAT?? 20 hours over???:eek: hehe....I don't feel so bad, I'm 4 hours over.....:ashamed:lol. Now debating whether to change fluid or not with the varying opinions.....but I did buy 10 gallons of the Shell Rotella synthetic.....

I think I am going to change filter, look at the magnets, drain a small amount into clean container and based on what I see perhaps hold on draining everything for a while.Perhaps next year do a early purge.
 
   / hydraulic/transmission fluid #10  
I think I am going to change filter, look at the magnets, drain a small amount into clean container and based on what I see perhaps hold on draining everything for a while.Perhaps next year do a early purge.

Please post your findings...I'd be very interested to get this data.
TIA!
 

Tractor & Equipment Auctions

2858 72" WOLVERINE HYD GRAPPLE BUCKET (A35838)
2858 72" WOLVERINE...
Cornell 6RB-F8 Pump (A36732)
Cornell 6RB-F8...
2671 20 5X12' HEAVY DUTY PANELS (A35840)
2671 20 5X12'...
18IN. DIGGING BUCKET EXCAVATOR BUCKET (A37994)
18IN. DIGGING...
PETERBILT FUEL TRUCK VN:423776 powered by diesel engine, equipped with Eaton Synchro-6 transmissi... (A37990)
PETERBILT FUEL...
1337 3PT WOLVERINE QUICK ATTACH HITCH (A35840)
1337 3PT WOLVERINE...
 
Top