I want to replace my 17yo ~1300hr BX2200 and ....

[steveja]

HI all, I got a lot of great advice & help on this forum back when my BX2200 and I were younger.

I've been seeing a lot of hydraulic problems (I'm typing right now b/c I'm avoiding the greasy mess of replacing a hard FEL line - in a tight/knuckle-cutting//dirty space - again (replaced all ~9 years ago - hard job dismantling the frame). I replaced the 3 long steering lines last year after the steering wheel failed to turn the wheels. Last year also saw the seal on the RCK 60" mower gearbox fail, immediately followed by the contents being converted to glitter.

The few minor electrical anomalies were much easier to address, but frankly the starter motor still doesn't engage 100% of the time - maybe one of the 2 safety switches or ignition key switch
--

1/ First step - would anyone care to talk me off this ledge ?

I *think* the hydraulic problems may be caused by the very low ground clearance of the BX2200, the unprotected line locations, and the fact that I use it for more than mowing & spreading mulch. I've certainly gotten brush stuck up near the lines and those lines could even get bumped hard or 'levered/pried with a 1" type stick/branch.

Gearbox seal-fail after ~16 years is I guess just part of the deal. Nothing short of a belly-mower oil light could have prevented it. I had to weld one of the mower wheel stands, but I blame myself (or my wife when she's not too close).

Starter/electrical is the only outstanding electrical issues - and every time i go to diagnosis it, after tearing off the plastic front cowl - it works just fine. I can accept that as a symptom of age that I'll eventually solve.

I yanked the leaking fuel injectors, had 'em rebuilt ~3 years ago. Not too difficult, but ....
--

I really don't mind maintenance , and I do this regularly. Electrical I'm pretty comfortable diagnosing & repairing. I'd just rather not get involved in engine, transmission work esp not hydraulic problems. The hydraulic problems don't have a lot of predictive symptoms, can be hard to diagnose (where is that drip coming from ?), involves getting dirty multiple times, delays ordering parts & finding the time (and strength) to tackle.

Would a younger prettier tractor restore my tractor-love - or am I just falling onto the repetitive emotional trap ?

==

2/ I've been looking down the Orange list (tho' I'd consider green), and ...

As background my use is ~75% mowing, ~ 25% dragging, moving, roto-tilling. I snow plow awkwardly with the standard FEL, but since I only need that for 150ft drive a few times per year .... it's OK. I suppose I could use a pallet/bale lifter, but I don't know it it's worth the cost or the pin-on loader.

BX2360 looks like the closest replacement. The rear wheel in this 'looks' awfully small and lawn-tractorish to me, and I have a little worry about dealing w/ terrain and the occasional mud sinks. I'd probably prefer the BX2680 a little more power & torque, but there is no more FEL lift capacity nor rear-hitch - so maybe only power at the PTO which is not where I have problems. Ground clearance is 8.9inch vs 6.7inch on m BX2200. Small improvements only.

B2301/B2601 seem the next step up. With quite a bit more lift capacity, quite a bit faster, 3 speed range, 14.6 inch ground clearance. Looks very attractive.

B2650 adds cruise control, a little more speed and even more lift capacity. Starting to get a little pricey & heavy - so this is about as far as I'd look.

Others I'm missing ?

-Steve

 

[jeff9366]

Your problems sound unusually severe on a 1,300 hour tractor, even seventeen years old, unless it was operated at 100% capacity much of the time.

You do not notice much improvement in tractor capability until tractor weight increases by 50%. I am on my third tractor, the marginally heavier second tractor was an expensive place holder. I should have known better but I had not discovered tractorbynet.com.

So the minimum next step for you should be an L2501 @ 2,600 pounds, bare tractor. The extra weight is all component strength. Big tractor 13" ground clearance is much better than 9" ground clearance.

For mowing, PTO horsepower is important. You may want to consider a L3301 which can spin a 60" rotary cutter in 48" grass. A TPH (Three Point Hitch) mounted rotary cutter or TPH mounted Finish Mower, is easier on a tractor relative to a MMM. You eliminate need for a mid-PTO, a vulnerable, forward-facing trouble point, especially on a tractor with scant 9" of ground clearance.

Few would argue that contemporary Kubota HST transmissions are significantly more reliable than clutch/gear transmissions.

Try to operate next tractor at 50% to 75% of capacity 90% of the time. Your repairs will be less. Always have plenty of TPH counterbalance mounted when doing Front End Loader work. I speculate sufficient counterbalance reduces hydraulic system stress by at least 1/3rd.

Used Kubotas generally maintain resale well. Yours is probably an exception. Consider your expense in unusual and excessive depreciation by buying too light the first time. Buy enough tractor!

 

[TMGT]

It sounds like you mostly finish mow around the house? If that's the case then another bx or the B2601 would both be good choices as they are both good in the mowing catagory.
What size are your current implements? Will going up in size require you to replace them with larger ones?

I agree you seem to be having a lot problems for having 1300hrs on a bx. As said do you find you are pushing the bx capability a little bit then the B2601 might be a good upgrade.

 

[David_Kb7uns]

Try jumping the starter directly or bypassing the interlock switches you may need the low volt relay kit, as the switches age they do not conduct fully and keep the starter solenoid from kicking in all the way.

David

 

[JOHNTHOMAS]

I started with a BX2200 MMM FEL about 14 years ago as my first ever tractor. Figured it was a lifetime mower for me so added the high priced wheel barrow on the front. Had about 5 hillside acres gullied, treed, rocky, brush/tree piles to mow around and thru. That wheelbarrow on the front made it so much more than a mower that I tackled jobs way to big for a tractor sitting so close to the ground. I used the front and sides of the mowing deck as a grader blade and rock finder. After a year I realized I needed something higher off the ground and something a bit heavier to pull attachments/implements on the back end so I traded that BX2200 MMM FEL to a B7800 FEL and a BX1500MMM. Kept that B7800 for 3 years and did some almost major landscaping to my new 5 acre home site on the side of the hill.
Weight means traction for a tractor and heavy duty for implements and ground clearance needs to suit ones property. I've bought over 20 Kubotas since that first one and have a few now. I would have stayed with the B2650 for all around work if I hadn't bought an additional joining 29 acres that needed a heavier machine. The B2650 is a abit more luxury than the B2601. The L2501 seems about the same size and price as the B2650 but is the less expensive utility version.
I use an F3080 for yard and steep areas mowing and a small used Cub Cadet zero turn with a steering wheel for flat areas and yard landscaping trees. I do woods tree cutting with a rotary mower and big less treed areas mowing with a rear finish mower.
Often times two machines are better than the sum of the two. Get a box mower for lawn mowing and a higher ground clearance tractor for your tractor work. Or probably a B model for all your work needs. Or back off being so aggressive with you BX and keep it for mowing and light weight tractor work.

 

[davesl708]

As to the starter do as TMGT stated. The relay is cheap and easy to install.

A belly pan would solve most of your hyd problems. I have one on mine to protect the HST fan.
My BX2200 has 1460hrs on it. Only problems have been FEL hoses and a orings in steering and pivot joints on the front end. Couple of U-joint rubber boots.
It clears brush, moves large rock, rototills, snow and mowing.
Works like a beast and no complaints.

 

[steveja]

Thanks all for the great comments, I came to learn something, and I have.

To answer the Qs -

Probably 75-80% of hours are spent mowing something that might generously be called lawn (I should get a drag box)
Aside from annual rototilling and a few hours cutting brambles & brush - I'm not pushing the PTO very hard.
I do move stones & downed trees around, and could use a little more FEL lift capacity for that, but it's not 1hr a year.
My woods is often wet & clay & goo, and I do leave some ugly tracks. The Lawn isn't a lot better on a wet Spring day - slide-y in the wet hillside bits.
I do rarely dig & reshape with the FEL - I could never justify a backhoe.
My wife logs perhaps half the hours but all light duty - half the mowing & "wheelbarrowing" w/ the FEL.

Your problems sound unusually severe [...] unless it was operated at 100% capacity much of the time.

It seems a lot of problems, and it's only used hard perhaps 10% of the time! That's why I'm considering that it might be part of the 'first model year' or 'bad hydro line placement' or 'low ground clearance' for my uses causing the headaches rather than capacity.

Big tractor 13" ground clearance is much better than 9" ground clearance.

BX2200 has only 6.7" clearance - it's a real low rider.

Few would argue that contemporary Kubota HST transmissions are significantly more reliable than clutch/gear transmissions.

Few would argue that way if they saw my wife using a clutch/gear.

Try to operate next tractor at 50% to 75% of capacity 90% of the time. ...

A good thought and I sometimes use counterweight for heavier FEL work - usually after rear tire lift-off.

Buy enough tractor!

But is size the issue causing the hard peripheral hydraulic tube fails ? Vibration ? Frame rigidity ? Sticks & stones/clearance ?
What sort of tracks will a 2600+lbs tractor make in my wet clay Spring lawn ?
The L2501 has no belly mower :^(
Gears/clutch tractors are incompatible with wife, and I'll take a bigger loss on her trade-in than the bx2200.

If that's the case then another bx or the B2601 would both be good choices as they are both good in the mowing catagory.

I didn't measure but the newer bx2380/bx2680 *looks* to have small rear wheels (bx2200 is F-18", R-26"). If that impression is accurate I'm worried about obstacle clearance, despite the extra 2+inches on the flat.

What size are your current implements? Will going up in size require you to replace them with larger ones?

Rototiller will need a longer PTO drive shaft and still be offset to cover one tire track, and the unpowered implements will fit betting on bigger hitch - no worries.

I agree you seem to be having a lot problems for having 1300hrs on a bx. As said do you find you are pushing the bx capability a little bit then the B2601 might be a good upgrade.

That's my thinking too. More ground clearance and a little more lift capacity might save a lot of stress. But I probably won't know till I own one for a few years.

I started with a BX2200 MMM FEL about 14 years ago as my first ever tractor. ... That wheelbarrow on the front made it so much more than a mower that I tackled jobs way to big for a tractor sitting so close to the ground.

Love that FEL, and the little monster encourages abuse.

I used the front and sides of the mowing deck as a grader blade and rock finder.

LOL - I usually leave that to my wife , but I caught one mower wheel shaft on a subtle little cutoff stump while mowing a few weeks ago - and by time the cursing was over the anti-scalp wheel section was held on by a thread. Welding lessons finally paid off! IMO the wheelbase of the bx2200 is too short for the 60" MMM and so you have to wiggle the unit in/out carefully between the wheels. A couple inches of extra wheelbase would have solved that. As a result I sometimes leave the mower attached when I really should take it off.

After a year I realized I needed something higher off the ground and something a bit heavier to pull attachments/implements on the back end so I traded that BX2200 MMM FEL to a B7800 FEL and a BX1500MMM.

I really can't be the 'two tractor guy' and I have on-going need for higher ground clearance in the woods - so the B model is calling. Your B7800 was ~30hp & 1740lbs - a bit more power than the B2650, but less weight & power than the B3350. Those are possibilities and i think Jeff would tell me B3350.

A belly pan would solve most of your hyd problems. I have one on mine to protect the HST fan.....

Wow that is good advice. I don't believe my HST fan has ever engaged the ground/mud, but it certainly engaged brush. I expect the flex FEL hoses to eventually need work, it's the hard tube leaks that are so annoying and sometimes miserable to replace.

This (below) looks a lot like my first hydraulic run-in:
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...00-fel-steel-line-hole-kubota-bx22000-018-jpg
Note those tubes, as they go a right-angles to the frame section are in a nice position to get sheared by an errant branch or sapling.
Sadly the steering hydr.lines aren't any better protected from below once you get forward of the battery.

Some of the newer tractors *appear* to hide those tubes better. I think I need to crawl under a B2601 & B2650.

==
Electricals ...

Try jumping the starter directly or bypassing the interlock switches you may need the low volt relay kit, as the switches age they do not conduct fully and keep the starter solenoid from kicking in all the way.

Thank for the input, esp re the LV relay. I've *suspected* that was it, but the problem goes missing as soon as I have the cowl off - grrr. A couple weeks ago I disconnected/reconnected the drive & pto safety switches, and I haven't haven't seen the problem since. This suggests the Low Voltage issue.

 

[TMGT]

The tires are the same OD on your bx and the bx2380 and 2680