If you are thinking about buying a gray market tractor

Mech · Mar 29, 2007

In January I decided that a small tractor would be a good investment to snow plow and grade our 300 ft dirt driveway. I decided on a tractor with FEL and a blade. I first looked at new big models and realized that the tractor with implements would approach $20,000. I then started looking at Chinese tractors both kits and from Northern Tool but read some very scary stories about Chinese tractors. I then found web sites from people selling gray market Yanmar and Kobota’s. I read lots of good things about Yanmar and about the company I ended up buying from. I think I have ended up with a good tractor (1610D), at least it is running well after 20 hours (with a few exceptions), but a few words about my experience.

1) Parts and Labor warrantees have limitations.
a. The dealer has to agree that the problem is covered
b. You have to be able to wait for the part
c. For the labor you have to be willing to pay for the 2 way shipping

A few examples:
- When I got my tractor it wouldn’t start because the Thermal Start was
bad. The dealer bought and over nighted me a TS but I had to put it
in. It starts now but never without using the TS.
- My hydraulics wouldn’t work for an hour or two after the tractor was
started in cold weather. I changed the transmission oil which fixed the
problem but the dealer maintained that they had put in new oil, which I
think that had, and felt that the hydraulics not working immediately was
normal, so didn’t pay for the oil.
- The tractor was missing some brackets, under the steps and for the
draw bar, that the dealer didn’t feel were essential and I did and do, so I
had to find and install the used parts.
- My steering had 10+ inches of play, wouldn’t adjust anymore, but my
dealer actually considered this an advantage because the steering
wouldn’t jar you if you hit a rock. I overhauled the steering box and it is
perfect now but it is a bit of money (approx $200) and a lot of work (at
least a ½ day).
- One of the 3 point pins came out and the threads were shot. I’m sure the
dealer would have sent me one but I couldn’t wait.
- Things like a mirror, horn, hood latches (My tractor only had one and a
clear plastic piece over the hole where the left one would have gone),
missing and loose bolts, fuse cover, PTO shield, clutch interlock,
grommets on dash, tire valve caps, my dealer and probably your dealer,
may not consider part of the package. So if having everything working is
important to you, expect to spend some sweat and money to get it all
working.

2) If you don’t like what you see when it arrives you have very few options

For example
- I was shipped a different tractor than I was sent pictures of. I’m
pretty sure it was an honest mistake but it is a risk you take buying
something sight unseen. If you pay cash you have very few options.
- My tractor had not been repainted, and did not have new hoses or belts
that had all been promised when I was told that most people that buy
their tractors “think that they are new”.

3) Because these are 30 year old tractors and unless the dealer is close you
will do all the work yourself so you need the time, inclination and expertise
to do the work. Along with all the work above I have put in the proper
fuses in (had one that was a 32 volt 30 amp fuse instead of a 12 volt 10
amp), replaced the light switch which the dealer bought, fix a FEL oil leak,
properly adjusted the clutch and belt, and put on a new FEL control valve
because I realized I needed a float control. In the future I need to fix a
leaking seal in the transmission (dealer bought the seal) and am planning
on doing lots of painting when it gets warm enough (dealer bought me
some spray paint).

Bottom line is -- I think I now have a good tractor for less than half of what a new Japanese made tractor would have cost, but you have to take a bit of a risk and plan on investing some of your own money and time. If you have a warrantee it is really for parts and catastrophic repairs.

LMTC · Mar 29, 2007

While this

1) Parts and Labor warrantees have limitations.
a. The dealer has to agree that the problem is covered
b. You have to be able to wait for the part
c. For the labor you have to be willing to pay for the 2 way shipping

is true in virtually every situation, the vast majority of the rest your comments are DEALER-related. Not market or model or brand related. If your tractor was clearly different than the one represented to you, REFUSE it. We allow our sight unseen purchasers to turn down a tractor at delivery....though no one ever has and we do not ship something different than the pictures they are sent. Telling you that 10" of play in the steering was "an advantage" is just nonsense. And DEALER related, not grey market related. How many references did you speak with or communicate with in some way who had previously bought from this "dealer"?

It seems a bit errant to me to list all these issues as supposed cautions to anyone thinking about a grey market tractor, when almost all of them are related to your specific purchase from your specific seller. You cast a pallor on all of us with this. At the very least, tell people where you bought it.

Tractors4u · Mar 29, 2007

You give some very good pointers, but then again it does reflect poorly on all Yanmars and grey market tractors. You experienced a bad dealer. You could have very well said "I bought a used car and here is what happened". It wouldn't make people shy away from used cars, but when we are discussing Yanmar tractors, it cast a bad light on them in general. I would have been P.O'd about that tractor if it had been delivered to me. I once had a company commander that told us, "The devil is in the details". Same with this tractors. No one ever notices that the correct fuse is in the fuse box or that all the 3 point parts are there, but if something is wrong it just plain stands out. The fact that it starts only with the thermo-start isn't good either. It should only be needed i the coldest of conditions. There is no excuse for this kind of business practice. He sent you some spray paint, what a guy!

Mech · Mar 29, 2007

Sorry it was not my intent to cast any dealer in a bad light. I hadn't anticipated that as the result. My intention with this post had been to make a point of the labor warrantee not being particularly useful so that people would understand that when things go wrong you have to fix them unless the dealer is close. I grew up driving and repairing tractors (Fords and Farmalls) and I hadn't anticipated so many problems and I guess I got carried away listing them all.

I should have refused the tractor at delivery but it was late at night, we worked for hours to get it started and the hydraulics to work and after waiting for several weeks with the dealer having my money I was just glad to get something.

I don't want to say who the dealer it is because I still have a warrantee that I want to be able to use if I have to. Also we are still talking and I honestly think they are good guys who got in too big a hurry on this one.

You are however correct that many of things are issues with the dealer. They have admitted that I've had a lot of trouble with the tractor and I will admit that I'm very particular about everything working perfectly so things like horn, mirror, paint, fuse box cover, etc. might be pushing things. I also think that I got a tractor that has had a lot more problems than most of their tractors have. I suspect I could push them into giving me a different tractor but at this point I have way too much invested in this tractor to let it go.

Mech · Mar 29, 2007

I do still worry about the starting and wonder if my altitude requires some adjustment to the injector pump. I live at 8600 feet.

I also didn't mean to cast a bad light on Yanmars. This tractor is 30 years old but even w/o new paint everyone that sees it thinks it is a new tractor. It pulls like it has twice as much HP as it does and turns within my very narrow driveway. I have moved snow several times, with the blade and the FEL and graded my driveway after the snow melted and it does both of those things really well. I love it and suspect it will outlast me.

Tom_Veatch · Mar 29, 2007

Let's see -- pretty high altitude, talking about moving snow, won't start without TS. Might be normal. What sort of temperatures have you been seeing when you've tried to start the tractor? Does it sit out, or does it overnight in the barn?

Not that I've got any answers, but that info might help the experts say whether there's a problem or not.

Mech · Mar 30, 2007

I've been keeping it in the garage which is not heated but rarely gets below freezing even when it is really cold and we usually get some nights in the -20's in January. I have tried to start it in the 60's and it turns over fine, lots of smoke but won't start until I hit the TS for 10-15 seconds, then starts quickly. Runs fine after it starts. Prediction is for 65 on Sunday so I will give it a try then.

thanks,

LMTC · Mar 30, 2007

Fuel - Oxygen - Compression(pressure). Those are the three factors for a diesel to fire. You're apparently getting fuel, and using the thermostart would have no impact on that. Have no clue as to how much impact altitude has, but suspect it has some. What is the reduction of oxygen at 8600' versus 1000'? Thermostart might assist in starting, but really should not only not compensate for lack of oxygen, and might make it worse since it involves an open flame in the air intake pathway. So...that leaves compression. I can tell you --- speaking strictly for our tractors --- that if I had one on the lot that consistently was hard to start (but did turn over ok, and ran ok once started) in temps of 40 or above I would be having a mechanic check it, and my strong suspicion would be that it needed rings.

normde2001 · Mar 30, 2007

Mech said:
I do still worry about the starting and wonder if my altitude requires some adjustment to the injector pump. I live at 8600 feet.

I also didn't mean to cast a bad light on Yanmars. This tractor is 30 years old but even w/o new paint everyone that sees it thinks it is a new tractor. It pulls like it has twice as much HP as it does and turns within my very narrow driveway. I have moved snow several times, with the blade and the FEL and graded my driveway after the snow melted and it does both of those things really well. I love it and suspect it will outlast me.

I suspect all engines might need some tweaking at that altitude, I'm pretty sure carbs normally do. You might check with other diesel users or shops in the area and see what, if anything, can/should be done.