Kioti CK35HST - FEL Float Issue

[ptouch]

The joystick controls have all been working fine. However, now I am unable to get it to go into the float position. It's as if the float position is no longer there. Has anyone had this problem?

 

[davrow]

ptouch, I haven't had that problem, but it is not uncommon. There are springs in there that can break or wear out. Rebuilding the valve is not too difficult usually, and usually takes care of it. This is by no means Kioti specific, it happens to all detent valves.

Oh, and welcome from a rural area in Southern California.

Also, the valve can be left connected to the control lines and pulled out next to the right rear tire to work on it. No need to disconnect everything. Still a big pain getting to it under the seat though.

 

[ptouch]

Hi Davrow, Thanks for the information. I believe that other than a little HP, our tractors are the same. I just finished removing, cleaning, greasing, and re-installing the covers on the front of the hydraulic thingy (technically speaking). It sounds like I need to do the same thing on the other end of the Hyd. Body ***'y (as the manual calls it). Yea, it probably is a pain getting to it under the seat but, hey I wouldn't have it any other way. I'll give it a shot and post the results. Thanks again for the advise.

Thanks for the welcome from So. Cal. I'm a So. Cal. native myself. Moved north in 2005.

 

[ptouch]

Hi Devrow, Well I have been through the spools on both ends (item #'s 5,6,10 and 11 of the Body Assembly (item # 7 - see attached diagram). However still no float position. In reading the manual (always the last resort) under "Disassembling the Joy-Stick Valve item #6 it says to remove the load check plugs (item #8) with the O-rings, springs, and load check poppets from the check valve ports. The first thing that is confusing to me is that the manual refers to "load check plugs", and "check valve ports" plural. Yet the diagram only shows one item #8. Enee Wayz, moving on. I did attempt to remove the Load Check Plug shown in the diagram using a Craftsman T40 Torx Bit Socket, but it wouldn't budge. It just stripped the inside of the load check plug where the socket goes in. Please also see attached photo for image of what I believed to be the load check plug . It was also, interesting to note that the diagram shows the whole body assembly up side down from how it is actually installed on the tractor. Any thoughts on this mess?

 

[davrow]

ptouch, looks to me like you wanted steps 1, 2 & 4... steps 3, 5 and 6 are not for your issue. Item 10 is the float spool, that's where I would expect the problem to be. And it looks (from the drawing) as though the spool itself is removed from the other side of the valve from what you show in your picture.

 

[davrow]

Plug 8 is on the other side of the assembly from in your picture, too. I think you were trying to remove 16... those have weld tabs to keep them from backing out or being removed.

 

[ptouch]

davrow, I have done steps 12&4, and everything looks good. That doesn't surprise me since the controls were all (except for the float) responsive and smooth prior to spool removal and inspection. You know, I'm beginning to think it may just be in the cable adjustment. Of course, I probably should have checked that out in the first place, but noooooo. I always say "why do things the easy way when there's a hard way that they can be done.

Weld tabs hu? That would explain why I couldn't get it out.

 

[davrow]

The names Dave, actually. So many Daves these days on the net that usernames get convoluted. Speaking of which, why are you named after my label maker?

I hope you can figure this out so when it happens to me you can explain the "easy" way.

First 50 hour maintenance coming up in the next couple days... just got the filters in the mail!

 

[ptouch]

Ya know, I kinda suspected from the "dav" in your user name that your name was Dave. As it turns out, I'm not actually named after your label maker. Interestingly enough my user name is a compilation of my first and last names. The "p" is for Phil.

Ya, when I do get it figured out, and though it may be embarrassing to do so, I will let you know what the easy fix is.

I have 300+ hours on mine and just did a service on it. Right now I am working on (I should say was working on) grading out a cul-de-sac behind my shop (I'm on 6 acers). So when the wife and I come back from where with our trailer, I will not have to back down the driveway (approx. 400 ft.). The material I am working in could be considered "select". That is if your feeding a rock crusher! Actually I'm kinda shut down right now cause I'm waiting for my buddy to weld on an new set of teeth on the backhoe bucket. There crimp on teeth but, I just like to run a little bead on each side of the tooth just for giggles.

I am recently retired after I spending just over 31 years in the grading industry there in So. Cal. So for me there is good news, and bad news. The good news is that am a pretty fair operator and can layout and build most any grading job. The bad news is that I didn't work on the equipment much. Just called the mechanic out. Now, due to economic restraints I gotta fix the iron myself. Well, at least I have plenty of time.

Thanks again for your much appreciated insight.

 

[davrow]

Phil, I'm close to a year retired now. Loving it. :cool2: I also have 6 acres, but 3 of those are vertical so I don't do much tractor work on that side. Actually, being desert I don't do much on any of it, but what I need to take care of requires the tractor!

Grew up in OC, then San Diego, now out east of Temecula.

Got my filter set from David Greene Tractors via the Internet... where do you get yours? Couldn't find anybody local.

 

[Leejohn]

As for your load checks, you well have 2 plugs that are the same and some what inline with each spool. On yours they are inline and just above each spool and set in the housing a little.

 

[ptouch]

Dave, Interesting, I'm also coming up on a year retired. My first day of retirement was Dec. 31, 2015 (last day of the year for tax reasons). Like you, I am loving it too. I highly recommend it. Actually, judging from the time of your posts yesterday, I thought you might be retired.....Of course it was possible that you had just "called in tired" to work though.

I also grew up in OC. Parents moved to Anaheim (from Los Angeles) in 1954. Growing up, I lived in Anaheim, and Santa Ana. Went into the Navy from 1968 thru 1972. After the Navy, I stayed in OC until 1989 then moved to Corona. Ultimately, moved from Murrieta in 2005 when we came up here to Coleville, CA. It's a small town on Hwy 395 just before going into NV.

I get my filters/parts etc. from S and W Tractors in Carson City, NV. The owner's name is Stan. Great bunch of people to do business with. That's also where I bought the tractor. I believe they are the only Kioti dealer in my area. Next closest would be over the mountain in Sacramento.

 

[ptouch]

Hi Leejohn,

Thank you for the location info on the load checks, and sorry for not getting back sooner. I did remove them and check them. they look ok and seem to be functioning properly. As it turns out, while working on the tractor today I finally found the problem. I finally tracked it down to the hydraulic hoses that come from the loader to the tractor. While reading the shop manual I derived that the only joy stick detent position available was supposed to be the lift/lower float position. Mind you, I only had one detent position on my joy stick control lever. The problem was that it was on the bucket dump position, and it caused just the bucket to in effect float (not the lift/lower). Before reading that there was just the one detent position, I thought that the one I had on the bucket dump position was just a (practically useless) feature, and that there was some other issue causing the "no float" issue for the lift/lower function. So, now the light starts to come on. At this point, I begin to suspect that the hoses from the FEL were incorrectly connected to the hoses from the joy stick valve body. Enee Wayz, even though the color identifiers on the hoses indicated that each of the hoses from the FEL were connected to the corresponding hose on the tractor (i.e. yellow to yellow, blue to blue etc). That was not the case. I was able to connect each of the FEL hoses to the correct and corresponding hose from the tractor (Joy Stick Valve Body). And, Wha La. Everything is working fine now. Some times it takes sooo loooong for me to get it. Thanks again for the help. You too Davrow.

 

[Arc weld]

Who color coded the hoses? If the valve kicked into float you could consider a hose hook up problem but if the hoses were color coded you would expect them to be right.

 

[ptouch]

Arc weld, I believe that the hyd. hoses were color coded by the manufacturer prior to shipping. Then the connectors were color coded with the rubber plug thingys when the dealer attached the FEL. Yes, I did assume that the hyd. hoses were correctly connected. That is until I had checked everything else that I knew to check. So by the process of elimination. It had to be hoses from the FEL connected to the wrong hoses from the Joy Stick valve body....and that was what the problem was.

 

[Arc weld]

Somebody screwed up. You would think if the dealer installed the loader they would have checked it out but there are a lot of people that don't even know what float does or what it's used for. Even contractors with skid steers and industrial loaders that have no idea their machine even has a float position. You ask them if they use float to back blade and they give you the deer in the headlights look.

 

[ptouch]

Arc weld,
Yes, it would appear that someone "screwed up." I guess that is just part of the imperfect world that we live in. Human error is something that is inherent in all of us (not me of course). There does seem to be more people than you would expect that are unaware of the float position on front end loaders (small and large). It is a typical feature on dozers as well. I'll bet that the guy that invented it was a poorly skilled "finish skip" operator LOL.

 

[DK35vince]

Somebody screwed up. You would think if the dealer installed the loader they would have checked it out but there are a lot of people that don't even know what float does or what it's used for. Even contractors with skid steers and industrial loaders that have no idea their machine even has a float position. You ask them if they use float to back blade and they give you the deer in the headlights look.

Our skid steers at work do not have float, (we have 5) and pretty sure the 2 front end loaders do not have float. I doubt I would ever use it even if they did.
My tractor loader has float and I never use it.

 

[Arc weld]

Our skid steers at work do not have float, (we have 5) and pretty sure the 2 front end loaders do not have float. I doubt I would ever use it even if they did.
My tractor loader has float and I never use it.

Unless your skid steers and loaders are home made or some unknown brand they will have float position. What brand are your skid steers and loaders? Yes, dozers have float too but not everyone uses it. Not using float has nothing to do if you're a good finish grader or not. When you know how to properly use float, especially on a skid steer it will do the best job.

 

[DK35vince]

Unless your skid steers and loaders are home made or some unknown brand they will have float position. What brand are your skid steers and loaders? Yes, dozers have float too but not everyone uses it. Not using float has nothing to do if you're a good finish grader or not. When you know how to properly use float, especially on a skid steer it will do the best job.

We have 2 Case 1845C, 1 Case 440, 1 Case SR220 and 1 Case 240.
I run them nearly every day and can't think or a single time I waned or needed float