Kioti Grapple Buyer beware!!!!

[BCT235]

Hi all. First Post here. I am kinda new to the Tractor game. I First had a Bobcat CT122 then upgraded to a 2009 CT235, i love the tractor perfect size and power for what i need.

I purchased a Brand New Kioti Grapple they just came out with last fall. First off i was really supprised it would not fit my Bobtach system. i had to Make some significant grinding to get it to fit flush. I called the dealer i purchased it from and he said this is normal on new to old equipment, so i went with it. It is a Kioti dealer i purchased this from fyi. So now just got the Chance to really use it, the Power company came by and made a mess under the power lines so was clearing some Small logs, and some large mulch from the brush crusher. After 5 hours of use, one of small tines the top section of the grapple busted off.

Ok So i just sent a nice message to customer service at Kioti. Saying how much i like the grapple and explained the same things i just laid out here. Wow was i really surprised at the response i got. i will share it. and some pictures i have of the grapple.

as stated im new to this kind of thing so was posting to see if this is normal for most other equipment manufactures or not?

Here is what Kioti sent me. I sent them back i will NEVER own another piece of there equipment again if this is the way i will get treated.
Luke,



Thank you for contacting KIOTI Tractor. KIOTI does not recommend the instlallation of KIOTI implements on any equipment that is not manufactured by and specifically for a KIOTI.



Unfortunatly, KIOTI will be unable to provide product support in this situation.



Regards,

[IMG alt="Logo Description automatically generated"]https://apis.mail.yahoo.com/ws/v3/m...n&downloadWhenThumbnailFails=true&pid=2[/IMG]	DAEDONG-USA, INC. KIOTI TRACTOR DIVISION	Steven Hopper Customer Relations
6300 KIOTI Drive Wendell, NC 27591 877-GO-KIOTI KIOTI.com

 

[ratflinger]

I understand their position, but this appears to be a manufacturing issue that should not be dependant on the equipment it is mounted to. I'd push on the dealer for a warranty issue, but then they'll probably claim you modified the grapple to make it fit. Kind of why I like 3rd party equipment, if the equipment is stated to work on a particular brand of tractor then the manufacturer has to stand behind their product without weaseling.

 

[Cataclysm]

Looks like a weak spot from the design of the parts as they were cut. Likely the assembly welder was supposed to weld past that joint and didn't get the memo.

I'd forget about the dealer and just weld that piece back on. You will need to weld past that spot on all the other tines as well. That is a weak spot on all them.

Then maybe look over the rest of the design and see if there are any other similar issues.

 

[Midniteoyl]

From what I understand, Kioti makes the tractors for Bobcat, but Bobcat sources their own loaders.. That said, SSQA is a standard and you should not have had to grind on anything to make it fit. Who was at fault for that is another story though.

2nd, Kioti should absolutely stand-by their product no matter what tractor its on (as long as its 'reasonable use') and replace it or repair at least the upper.. Keep pushing the dealer you bought it from to make it right.

 

[Midniteoyl]

I'd forget about the dealer and just weld that piece back on. You will need to weld past that spot on all the other tines as well. That is a weak spot on all them.

Thats AR400, not sure if he'd have the experience to do it correctly.

 

[Cataclysm]

Thats AR400, not sure if he'd have the experience to do it correctly.

Who knows. I'd make sure what steel it was before any welding. If it is AR400 most any diy welding guy can easily weld that piece back on, weld the other tines and check for any other issues.

I'm a problem solver. This gets him back in business instead of fussing with an incompetent company.

Right off Lincoln's site:

AR400 is a quench and tempered steel and may be difficult to weld due its high strength and hardenability. The base steel around the weld rapidly heats and cools during welding, resulting in a heat affected zone (HAZ) with high hardness. Any hydrogen in the weld metal may diffuse into HAZ and may cause hydrogen embrittlement, resulting in delayed underbead or toe cracks outside of the weld. To minimize heat affected zone cracking:

• Use a low hydrogen consumable with an -H4 or -H2 designation
• Preheat to slow the cooling rate. Note that excessive preheat may anneal the base material
• Slow cool. More time at elevated temperatures allows the dissolved hydrogen to escape
• Peen the weld beads to minimize residual weld stresses
• Use the lowest strength filler metal meeting design requirements. If making fillet welds, the weld can be oversized to give the specified strength
• Minimize weld restraint

 

[MapleLeafFarmer]

boy that sucks that it broke and sucks even more manufacturer will give you no consideration. Hopefully your dealer can come through for you.

IMHO I think you have right to be an unhappy camper. I know I would be.

good luck and interested to know your final outcome.

 

[BCT235]

Who knows. I'd make sure what steel it was before any welding. If it is AR400 most any diy welding guy can easily weld that piece back on, weld the other tines and check for any other issues.

I'm a problem solver. This gets him back in business instead of fussing with an incompetent company.

Right off Lincoln's site:

AR400 is a quench and tempered steel and may be difficult to weld due its high strength and hardenability. The base steel around the weld rapidly heats and cools during welding, resulting in a heat affected zone (HAZ) with high hardness. Any hydrogen in the weld metal may diffuse into HAZ and may cause hydrogen embrittlement, resulting in delayed underbead or toe cracks outside of the weld. To minimize heat affected zone cracking:

• Use a low hydrogen consumable with an -H4 or -H2 designation
• Preheat to slow the cooling rate. Note that excessive preheat may anneal the base material
• Slow cool. More time at elevated temperatures allows the dissolved hydrogen to escape
• Peen the weld beads to minimize residual weld stresses
• Use the lowest strength filler metal meeting design requirements. If making fillet welds, the weld can be oversized to give the specified strength
• Minimize weld restraint

Thanks for that! and all the responses. I had to grind a support in the top frame as my Bobtach was wider than new ones i guess, also had to grind at least 1/4' or more oval out of it where the handles attached so it wit sit flush.

Was waiting for warmer weather and to get my 240 plug installed for my hobart 210mvp. i have experience on 115v so should not be a problem with the welding. I will as stated by a few defiantly put some gussets on those other tines just to make sure.

Other than that its a very nice Grapple, i will try and get some other pictures up. the originals were to large.

I did my research and watched tons of videos, i did do some back dragging with the top, and i always had the top fully extended not to put pressure on the rams. and always went straight back, no turning. Maybe just a week spot in the metal?

Oh and Yeah and i will tell him this is a Kioti tractor!!

 

[BCT235]

Other than some oversized brush this is what i have used the Grapple for. I did move some small rocks, but they fit inside were not on the tines.

 

[oosik]

I'm surprised, dismayed, that Kioti would not back their product.