L3830 w/ Bradco 509 vs. New L39

[JimMorrissey]

I know L39s are unavailable at this time, but considering the specs.....

How do you think a L3830 with a Bradco 509 would compare in real working conditions to a new L39 (digging roads, tenches and stumps)? I enjoy my 3830, but I'm serioulsy looking at at L39. The reason is, the Bradco hoe is almost 9K with tax and that gets me within 8K of a new L39. Also, my L3830 only provides 8.3 gpm...(23.5 on the L39). I'm not sure 8.3gpm flow will do it for such a beast of a hoe. The 509 asks for a minimum of 9 gpm, but Bradco says it is designed for use on a L3830 or similar? Another consideration is the lift height and strength of the L39, in case I end up loading a small dump truck in the future and lifting some big rocks.

Whatever I end up with will see some serious use. I have a 1000' of road to excavate and build (18" deep X 20' wide), over 1000' of trench for electric/phone/cable lines (36" wide), about 2000' of sewer line to install and a 4000 gallon tank. I wonder if there would be anything left of the L3830 when the work is done. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif I have another smaller piece of land I'm going to be doing some site work on when this project is complete, which will add additional strain to the equipment.

I'm not renting an excavator due to the fact that I have a full time job and I can't just take a week off here and there to utilize a machine like that. AND, I'm not in a huge hurry.

-I'm going to take a beating on the L38 on trade...15-20% loss. When I bought the 3830 (Sept), the L39's imminent introduction was not disclosed by Kubota. My 3830 is basically new. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

 

[_RaT_]

Jim, I had the L48 prior to the L3830 HST I have now. The L48 and I would assume the L35 and now L39 are great loader/hoes being an integral loader and the hoe being designed for pretty much that machine. What I found is that while they make great TLB, they make lousy mowing machines. If never needing to take the loader off is not an issue and not needing as versatile tractor or one that mows, the TLB's are very nice. I just found my tasks needed that versatility. I remove my loader many times throughout the season and now just would not want it any other way. I will be needing a hoe to do many of the tasks you mention during the construction of our new home. I plan to have my hoe work done by a professional or I will be renting a ride on trencher that can get 6' deep. The thought of adding a hoe to my L3830 has crossed my mind many times. I have looked at the Bradco and Woods. I was hoping that someone would be making the new curved style found on so many hoes today, even the L39 will be getting one. It is pretty much the cost that keeps me thinking I will just hire out the work. You are definitely doing more trenching then me.

 

[Henro]

Jim,

Judging from what my B2910 TLB has done for me over the last two years I think you would have a lot of L3830 left after you were finished with the tasks you described.

But I bet the L39 would would be a little tougher, a little stronger, a little better at accomplishing the construction type tasks. But when it is all over (if it ever is) which would suit you better? It might just boil down the comparison between a B2910 like I have and a B21. Everyone agrees that the B21 is a better construction machine, but the B2910 just might be a better all around tractor, when things other than construction like grunt work is considered.

After the heavy work is done, what will you need and what will serve you the best? Like you said, you will take a hit to move up to the L39, and another hit to move from the L39 to something else in the future, if you choose to do that.

I don't doubt that you could do what you want with the 3830. From this distance it really is a hard call. Mabye RAT might be able to give some real input, since he owned the big brother to the L35 in the past and now owns a L3830... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

edit: I see Rat and I were on the same page, but he types faster! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[btolle]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Whatever I end up with will see some serious use. I have a 1000' of road to excavate and build (18" deep X 20' wide))</font>

I'm not sure I would want to tackle 1,000' of road 20' wide with a backhoe. That is a tremedous amount of digging and you will have lots of dirt to haul somewhere which means that as you dig you will need to load it on something and haul it somewhere.

Since a road bed needs to be reasonably level it is going to take some expert operating to get it smooth.

Sounds like a track loader or bulldozer would get it done faster and probably better.

You are talking about over 1,000 cu yards of dirt for the road (1.5' deep X 20' wide X 1,000' long+30,000 cubic feet / 27 cu feet per cu yard = 1,111 cu yds.).

The first statistic I found on a 24" backhoe bucket said it holds 11.1 cubic feet which means you will need 2,702 buckets full to clear the road if you load every bucket full to the max.

I hope my math is correct!

Bill Tolle

 

[JimMorrissey]

Bill,

Yes, your math is correct. It is a lot of material, but I have the time and room to excavate, handle and screen the topsoil, so the time involved is not really an issue. I intend to move my screening operation with me as I move down the lot. However, I do want to be productive when I'm working and that's is exactly why I'm considering the L39. It's hoe should be as smooth and efficient as a JD 110s. It is as fast (# cuts per hour, not volume) as a small excavator. The other consideration is the fact that the hoe has a 10' reach, so if I plant myself in the center I should be able to get the whole road cut without having to take two passes, which will definitely save time. 2700 cuts...no problem /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Regarding the base grade. I'm certain I can achieve a nice base grade with my boxscraper and a rolling compactor (rental). I have a fairly large "yellow" leasing center close by, so if I need a bulldozer for a weekend I'll finish off the base with that.

Henro and Rat's comments on the usefullness of the machine post project are of concern. Without the loader bucket and the backhoe, it seems to me that the L39 is pretty close to a standard CUT. It's got a fully functional 3pt hitch and it actually looks smaller in physical size than my 3830. It is heavier and soil compaction may be a serious problem trying to pull my Wood 72" RFM. Pulling a "brush hog" would work fine as well as a tiller. I may need to buy a lawn mower again. I wish I still had my BX.

One thing I do really like is the hydraulic flow...amazing. I could easily run a hydro PHD, broom, or most other high-flow quick attach implements off the loader. Rental places have all kinds of neat stuff a CUT can't support.

 

[btolle]

Jim,

Sounds like you have some rock or gravel since you are talking about screening the material.

If I am wrong and it is not rocky or the rocks are small enough, you could run the tiller down the road to loosen it and then use the loader to move it. You would have to make several passes to the depth you want but the loader capacity is probably a lot more than the backhoe bucket. Just a suggestion. Of course it won't work if you have a lot of rocks, the tiller would not last long.

While I enjoy tractoring I am always looking for an easier way to do things.

Bill Tolle

 

[jim_wilson]

I went thru a similar project as the one you are going to do this past summer - just on a much smaller scale. I ended up evaluating a bunch of options and eventually bought a BX23 with the one of it's first projects being putting in a new driveway that extends about 120 feet. This entailed digging down about 2 feet or so to get rid of all the topsoil, tree roots, and rocks, until I got to a good base. If you are going to compare the L3830 to the L39 I would look at a few things. The thread so far seems to concentrate on the backhoe - I think the FEL is going to just as important - look at how the L3830 FEL compares to the L39 FEL - I havent taken the FEL off of my BX23 yet and the only time I anticipate doing so is when and if I ever use the tractor for mowing the lawn. In your case if you ended up buying an L39 it might make more sense to get a dedicated mowing machine when you finally get to the point where you need one. I say the FEL is just as important because I ended up using the backhoe pretty much just to break up the ground so I could get it out with the FEL, with the tootbar on the FEL bucket I did most of the actual digging work with the FEL. Tires - not sure what type of tires you have on the L3830 but I think the L39 comes with heavy duty constrution tires - if you have turf tires on the L3830 you will want ags or the construction type tires - I bet tires for the L series are expensive so this would be another expense. How does the backhoe attach to the tractor? I think the way the backhoe attaches to the tractor and how much ground clearance it has will be very important - Kubota does not have the specs for the L39 up on the website yet but the L35 stuff is there and it shows the angle of departure for the L35 backhoe and the quick mount attach. I bet the Bradco backhoe is a subframe mount - this means the backhoe unit itself will stick much farther off the rear of the tractor than the L39 unit - and it will make it much harder to detach and reinstall than the quick attach L39 unit. All of these factors will start to factor in pretty heavily as you go back and forth from using the backhoe to break up the ground and then turn the tractor around to use the FEL to excavate. If the backhoe hangs off the back of the tractor further it gives you less room to turn the thing around in the 20ft wide area you will be working in. One of the best tests you could to evaluate the difference between the two is to find an L3830 or similar tractor with a subframe attached backhoe and then find an L39 or L35 and compare the difference in ground clearance, ease of attach/detach, and also how it will be to go from driving position to backhoe working position. You will be changing position a lot so every little bit helps. Last but not least the L39 comes with a built in canopy with work lights - since it sounds like you will be using the tractor the same way I use mine - after work and during the weekends the lights will come in useful as you are trying to ' just finish up that last little bit for the day' . If you don't have lights on the L3830 or a canopy you will probably find you want them as they will extend your worktime into darkness and rainy weather.

If it was me I would go for the L39.

 

[JimMorrissey]

Screening will take care of all kinds of stuff (rocks, roots, sod chunks). Regardless of the debris mixed into the soil, screening provides beautiful sifted material. The kind of stuff that costs about $600 a tandem around here. Most guys then cut it with sand and get the price down a bit.

I agree on easier, and being able to use equipment at will (morning and evenings) falls into "easy" for me. Trying to coordinate and consume my limited vacation time tied to a $1600 a week excavtor does not. But I understand your point and considered the lease option at length.

Tilling...Now that would take some time. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif Thanks for the input.

 

[LarryRB]

I have had both a Bradco 511 hoe, submount and the L 48.. The Bradco hoe is at least even with the 48's 11 ft hoe,.. They are both powerful and well designed commercial grade units.. The Bradco, hung off the back of a 4110 Mahindra.. Mount and dis-mounting the hoe wasn't a big deal.. The clearance could get one in serious trouble if you weren't watching. Being hung on a sub frame, it was quite low and you had to operate accordingly.. The only single down side of the Mahindra w/511 Bradco, was the on and off, continuously. to move machine and keep digging. It costs lot's of time and if you have any physical disabilities, such as bad legs., it didn't take long to wear you out.. The 48 has a swivel seat. No need to get on and off tractor to keep moving.. The 4110 Mahindra needed 4 X 4 boards in order to load on my trailer.. (The hoe hangs low and would drag enough I needed to raise machine in order to get up on loading ramps).. This too, was not a big deal.. Lay the boards down then drop the steel loading ramps on top of those boards.. The 48, goes right on up the steel ramps without need of rasing the machine first.. You're talking close tollerances here of about 4 inches difference between machines. The 4110 had a large PTO pump and hydro oil reservoir, to operate the hoe,. The machines pump isn't enough to run without the extra pump. The 48, has three pumps with 26 GPM, no PTO added pumps needed, Both are almost identical in pulling/digging power. The 48 loader is much beefier and picks up about 2 1/3 times the 4110 loader.. I have a power angle snow plow, 7 1/2 ft, that works awesome. The Mahindra had a 7 ft mechanical swing plow that did the job admirably. I have hog mowed 18 acres worth of fields, 6 times so far with the 48, and found it as easy as the mahindra did it.,. Hooking up the 3 pt system is easy and is stored right on the machine... The L 39 has similar characteristics to the 48 and it would be my suggestion to get the 39 over the 3830.. Other than not being able to remove the loader arms, I can't think of anything that can't be done between the 3830 and 39.. The 39 also has 20 or so GPM pump total compared to 8 or 9 max on the 3830.. My vote is for the 39

 

[JimMorrissey]

Jim,

Good thoughts....I had never really considered excavating the earth with the loader after it was broken up by a hoe. I think I'd just use the hoe. However, the LA723 is quite capable of such a feat (very nice loader). I have tried something similar before actually, and I must say that it was time consuming. Especailly in the spring when it's wet and sloppy. Traction is the limiting factor.

The issue remains the 1000s of feet of trench that I'll need to dig. Stumps and large buried rocks/boulders are an issue as well. Paying a pro to install primary electric line costs enough to pay for the tractor itself!...Forget the fact that I have to run sewer, cable and phone, along with the sewer holding tank and controls (forced main).

BTW: The electric company quoted me $32 a foot for buried electric lines /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif I buried about 600' at my last house for about $5 a foot. It was pretty simple....Used the old BX to pull the cable, worked slick.