Lithium ion battery life - in years?

   / Lithium ion battery life - in years? #1  

alchemysa

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Oct 6, 2006
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South Australia
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I usually just buy cheap cordless drills. (Around $30 - $40). For most of my 'handyman' jobs they do OK, but battery lifespan seems to be a lottery. After a couple of years (or less) they sometimes won't take enough of a charge to give much more than 5 minutes of work.

My question is: Even if I buy a better quality drill am I going to get any more life out of it than say 2 or 3 years? A Lithium Ion drill will cost 3 or 4 times as much but will I get 3 times as many years out of it? If not then I really can't see much sense in a big outlay.

Or is the best value option somewhere in between? For example, buying a brand name cordless drill with a standard (but hopefully good quality) ni-cad battery?

Any thoughts?
 
   / Lithium ion battery life - in years? #2  
I've got several dead cordless drills lying around with dead batteries. It was always cheaper to buy a new drill than new batteries for those cheap drills. Last year I bought a Rigid drill that came with a flashlight and two batteries. At that time you could register it for a lifetime warranty, including the batteries....we'll see how that works out in a year or so. It's the 12v lithium ion type. The flashlight sure is bright! I haven't had to charge the batteries yet.

Chuck
 
   / Lithium ion battery life - in years? #3  
I bought a Panasonic 15.6 volt drill about 8 years ago. It has 2 ni-cad batteries which I still use, but they are noticeably weaker now. I bought DeWalt 18 volt equipment about two years ago. These are also Ni-Cad. I have 5 batteries and a variety of tools. I'm not a contractor, but do use the tools frequently as I'm rebuilding the house we live in. No problems with any of these batteries yet. I went DeWalt because they are widely used and many tools available. I wanted to get all my tools using the same battery system. The DeWalts are also backwards compatible as far as the batteries, so I can upgrade to Lithium batteries or equipment if I want. I bought my DeWalts a little at a time, as I saw them at sale prices. Hope this info is helpful.

Paul
 
   / Lithium ion battery life - in years? #4  
I have the older style blue 18 v Ryobi, now I see these batteries at HD>
Search Results for ryobi lithium battery
I'm wondering if they will fit my older. But also notice that for the same price of 90 dollars they sell the two pack. Must be some new kind of release.'two for one'
Have you checked HD for a battery for the one you have? I usually spend about 50 dollars at HD for a two pack of Ni-cads.So your right they are allot more but...
 
   / Lithium ion battery life - in years? #5  
About two years ago, I bought a Hitachi 18 vdc drill with two 1.5 ah lithium ion batteries. Those batteries are good, but I wanted more run time on my batteries, so I bought the 3.2 ah battery. Tht thing is a beast. It has performed flawlessly and holds a charge for a long time. I loaned it to the crew doing my deck install last year and they could run that drill almost all day long putting in deck screws on the one big battery. A big battery and a small battery would definitely last all day doing constant work. Yesterday, I used a fiberglass bristle cup brush to clean old oxidized paint off a fiberglass door. That Hitachi drill got hot near the brushes, but I cleaned the whole door with that cup brush running at high speed on the drill and the battery didn't run down. I really like my drill and lithium ion batteries. I can't speak about others, but the Hitachi seems to be a very good product. I have a 12 vdc Dewalt with both nicads and nimh batteries that I hardly ever use. The 18 vdc Hitachi and li-ion batteries are everything I need in a drill. So chalk me up as a huge fan of lithium ion.
 
   / Lithium ion battery life - in years? #6  
Have some fun. Wire the old drill with a long electrical cord by soldering one end of the cord to each contact. Put clips on the other end and hook it to your 12 volt car battery, these motors are DC units and will run on any voltage. If the origional was 18 volts it will run slower if 9 volts it will run faster. They work great for polishing the car.
 
   / Lithium ion battery life - in years? #7  
Disclaimer: My father used to say:

"The three things man will never understand are batteries, economics, and the opposite sex." ;)

I got about 4 years on my DeWalt NiCds. Seems I do something with them every month. The 2nd generation batteries and charger from DeWalt added a 3rd terminal on the battery. Typically in NiCds this goes to a temperature sensing device. A "rapid charger" for NiCds is usually a charger and battery combination that makes sure the battery doesn't get too hot when charging. A "normal" charger just limits the charge current to keep this from happening. As the batteries get older, their internal resistance goes up resulting in a bit less power and higher temperatures when charging. So the temp sensor helps a bit on battery life.

Lithium Ion batteries require smarter electronics to charge. You can't just pump current into them. They also require a temperature sensors. This is no longer a big technical problem, and there are many chips that do Lithium charger stuff. The stories about Lithium batteries catching fire are what engineers call the learning curve. In hybrid cars, the battery cells are in small clusters with a little chip to monitor them so it's OK. The chip can also take the cluster out of the game so that a single cell failure doesn't mean the entire battery pack has to be changed out. This is not the case in hand tools.

The lifetime of both types of batteries is more a function of how many times they have been charged and discharged than anything else. Leaving them sitting around uncharged for long periods of time (months) also decreases the operating life. Higher output currents also affect life, so the battery in a flash light will see longer life than the battery running a saw. Much like the construction differences in lead-acid batteries, such as a deep discharge vs. car starting battery, the construction of the battery can affect both performance and life. With Lithium batteries, there is interplay between the way the charger works and the battery construction. While most batteries (both types) have typical life's of 300-400 charge cycles, some manufactures claim charges in excess of 1000 cycles. Some of the Apple computer products with non user serviceable batteries claim to be in this league. In hybrid cars, this higher number of cycles is very important, otherwise you would need new batteries in 2 years. Discharge rate complicates battery lifetime. Operating temperature (either due to ambient or high discharge rate) complicates this. Partial charge cycles complicate things, and pretty soon here I'll be refering you back to my Dad's statment :).

Finally, the life of batteries requires some condition or threshold of performance that must be crossed in order to declare the battery dead. For example, when time you get using the battery drops by 25% from a new one, it's dead (even though it still can be used). The new LED lights that tout 50,000 hours of life have a similar threshold, such as "at 70% of the brightness of a new led, the led is declared dead" (even though it still puts out light).
It may be hard to believe, but some marketing types have been know to tweak the thresholds so they can claim a longer battery life.

As always with me, TMI and too long post. Want a short and sweet? try this:

Li battery life: 400 charges or 4 years, which ever comes 1st.

Disagree with me on this? Talk to the Old Man- trust me, he's got all of eternity to discuss this one. :laughing:

Pete
 
   / Lithium ion battery life - in years? #8  
Toadhill
Thats a great idea. I thought I was a nut when I did it. I also considered using an old one for a motor to turn the snowblower chute.
Really would look funny you take out the drill and then a huge 12 volt battery pack lol
 
   / Lithium ion battery life - in years? #9  
There is a middle ground here, NiMH batteries. Sim to Ni-Cads but better and not the steep price of Li-ion batteries.

Bought a Panasonic cordless drill a couple yrs back that uses NiMH batteries. Drill came with (2) batery packs and quick charger. Battery packs seem to be lasting as long now as they did when new. Seems like I can run a pack forever without it running completely down. I find myself swaping the packs before they are run down just to keep both packs a little active.

Like this one. EY6432GQKW - Drill Drivers - Shop and Compare at Panasonic
Not cheap but doesn't perform cheap.
 
   / Lithium ion battery life - in years? #10  
I have the older style blue 18 v Ryobi, now I see these batteries at HD>
Search Results for ryobi lithium battery
I'm wondering if they will fit my older. But also notice that for the same price of 90 dollars they sell the two pack. Must be some new kind of release.'two for one'
Have you checked HD for a battery for the one you have? I usually spend about 50 dollars at HD for a two pack of Ni-cads.So your right they are allot more but...

Yes the newer 18v Lithium batteries with fit the older 18v NiCad tools. But you also need a new charger since the older charger will not charge lithium batteries.
The reason the 2 pack are cheaper is because they have lower amp/hr rating than the single one. Look at the size, the single is physically taller than the doubles.


I thought about going that route too since I have the older 18v Ryobi drill which works pretty good but the battery sucks. But for less than twice the cost of two 18v lith batteries & charger I got this instead; http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001F7BIMG/ref=oss_product
Which gave me two 18v Lithium batteries, a charger, a drill and a impact driver.
Btw, the impact is AWESOME!
 

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