Loading issues on Dump Trailer

Renze

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Don't be afraid to tell the loader how you want it loaded, after all it is you that will be prosecuted not them.
At a contractor where i picked up some sand for making a bed for paving stones, they refused to let me drive off with just a load in the back, they knew i was unsafe and didnt want to let me leave. I said its ok, i'm going to pick up a vibratory compactor, which i need after ive wheelbarrowed in this pile of sand, so i want that up front... "ah, ok then... We just dont want you to leave with an unsafe load, we are the professionals so we feel obliged to take some responsibility for inexperienced private citizens who get stuff from here.

Actually i like that mindset a lot better than the mindset at the other contractor, or at the quarry where giving private people trouble seems to be a sport...
 

Midniteoyl

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At the quarry, on slow days, loader operators create some sensation by purposedly overfilling wee little trailers, filling over the sides so the wheels are blocked in.

When asking for a m3 of topsoil and a m3 of compost for my fathers flower beds, the operator gave me 800kg of compost and 3 ton of wet topsoil, smirking while dumping a full bucket of his L90 on it whilst seeing the scale hit 5960kg. I drove home at the speed limit to not draw attention, my S70 TDI had no problem pulling it (the same engine was also in the VW LT van, the VW version of the Merc Sprinter) but i was near double the GCW rating.

Those guys just enjoy that.... Next time i will show up with the tractor and 7 ton dump trailer.

Anyways, to the OP: just pull the top of the heap flat with a shovel before driving off, to wherever you need the weight. You're overthinking this.
Should have refused to pay for that much overload and made them pull some out.
 

4570Man

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All of you guys being such a pain are going to get yourself as in all dump trailers banned from the quarry. The local quarry already increased the minimum charge to 5 tons because they’re so aggravating to deal with.
 

Johnb0311

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I have a 8x14 14k that I pull with a f150. I've only once had to much tail weight. But it was a goofy load of wet dirt. It's really hard to load it with to much tail weight. However your wd hitch isn't tight enough if it can't LEVEL out your truck with 1400 lbs. I've had over 20k in my trailer by complete accident and the wd did its job leveling my truck. I'm pretty sure my bars are only 1k or 1200lb also.

When I used my dad's 6x10 suretrac you wouldn't be able to lift the bed long before you truly overloaded your truck
Correct on that WD hitch. I adjusted mine a bit tighter and made a world of difference. Still over loaded the half-ton pulling truck but handled much better.
 

LD1

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Wow. I think about 7 people in the last three pages have all said the truck is too small. Even though the OP has said about 7 times that it IS WITHIN THE WEIGHT RATINGS.

Sating a modern half ton is just a grocery getting is laughable. People need to grow up.

But seriously....For a 10k dump trailer to be safe....it takes no less than a F-550 sized truck. No way would I ever want to haul a 3 ton load in a 10k trailer behind a F450 or F350. Just too small of a truck to handle it safely :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
 

sandman2234

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Wow. I think about 7 people in the last three pages have all said the truck is too small. Even though the OP has said about 7 times that it IS WITHIN THE WEIGHT RATINGS.

Sating a modern half ton is just a grocery getting is laughable. People need to grow up.

But seriously....For a 10k dump trailer to be safe....it takes no less than a F-550 sized truck. No way would I ever want to haul a 3 ton load in a 10k trailer behind a F450 or F350. Just too small of a truck to handle it safely :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
Well, actually, his half ton pickup is too lightweight for the loads he is hauling, simply because the load is not being loaded what he considers correct. Once he goes over the recommended manufacturer's weight with the tongue weight, he is overweight. What can be done about it is what he was asking from the start, and replacing it with a heavier truck was not one of the options. Since he also doesn't want to elevate the dump partially and shovel some to the rear, and the gravel pit doesn't allow him to exit the vehicle, to instruct the loader (not that they listen anyway!!) he appears he is at the mercy of the loader unless he is willing to reduce the overall weight proportionally to reduce the tongue overloading.
Moving the entire load backwards was a suggestion, and while viable under the way he is currently being loaded, what happens if the operator figures out why the drums are there, and decides to help with the issue? A severely overloaded rear end comes into play and a half ton pickup is not going to like hauling that load down the road very fast!
If you can't control the loaders, the next best thing would be to control just how much tongue weight you can handle, which is why I suggested the coil over helper springs.
David from jax
 

TMGT

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Wow. I think about 7 people in the last three pages have all said the truck is too small. Even though the OP has said about 7 times that it IS WITHIN THE WEIGHT RATINGS.

Sating a modern half ton is just a grocery getting is laughable. People need to grow up.

But seriously....For a 10k dump trailer to be safe....it takes no less than a F-550 sized truck. No way would I ever want to haul a 3 ton load in a 10k trailer behind a F450 or F350. Just too small of a truck to handle it safely
Na, the 550's are just glorified p'ups, really need to go to a F6/750 minimum to be pulling that 10k tag trailer, then you can put all the tongue weight that you want on it.....
 

CADplans

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Na, the 550's are just glorified p'ups, really need to go to a F6/750 minimum to be pulling that 10k tag trailer, then you can put all the tongue weight that you want on it.....
When I was hauling 550 bushels of wheat to Norfolk with a '69 F-750,, was I overloaded?? I had the 370-2V engine, and a split rear end,,
 

Midniteoyl

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When I was hauling 550 bushels of wheat to Norfolk with a '69 F-750,, was I overloaded?? I had the 370-2V engine, and a split rear end,,
How did you not die? :eek: :eek:
 

TMGT

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When I was hauling 550 bushels of wheat to Norfolk with a '69 F-750,, was I overloaded?? I had the 370-2V engine, and a split rear end,,
Most likely, the GVWR varied some on the F700 (the Fx50 designation didn't come out until 2000 for the medium duty trucks), typically the F700 was below 30k gvwr and 550 bushels would weigh about 33k lbs. plus a truck weight of approx 10k+ lbs depending on body weight.

I do feel sorry for you though, use to own an early 80' F700 dump flatbed with the 370-4V 5spd with 2spd rear and it was definitely lacking in the power department! Kept you pretty busy with the shifter to keep your speed up.
 

CADplans

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I do feel sorry for you though, use to own an early 80' F700 dump flatbed with the 370-4V 5spd with 2spd rear and it was definitely lacking in the power department! Kept you pretty busy with the shifter to keep your speed up.
My BIL used to fuss at us,, he could make the run to Norfolk,, with the same truck, hauling the same load,,
and he would only burn half of the number of gallons of gasoline that I did,,

I swear, he must have stopped and bought gas,, just to make a point,,

Really, he would never hardly push on the gas pedal,, he would let the truck almost coast up to speed,,
My nephew and I drove it,, there was one position for the gas pedal,, on the floor.
Let it up when you had to shift,, then back to the floor..
The engine even had a governor,, so, you could not over rev it...
 

brettt

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I got a 6x12 10K dump trailer earlier this year. Due to tow limits of my 1/2-ton truck, I never purchase more than 3 tons of material. When loaded properly, the trailer tows great. But I'd say 80% of the time, the local yards load me with a forward bias, creating too much tongue weight. I picked up three loads today and they were all forward biased, some worse than others.

I installed a W.D.H. to help in these situations, and it does what it is supposed to but won't cure poor loading or too much tongue weight. While pulling onto the scale for my first load this morning, I carefully noted the measurements as each axle went onto the scale, before and after being loaded. While eating lunch I did some math. The trailer has only 300# tongue weight when empty, which matches what I measured with a bathroom scale a couple months ago. When loaded too far forward, tongue weight was 1140#, more than my truck is meant to handle and visually way too much even with a W.D.H. If loaded evenly, it should have been in the 700-800# range.

I'm trying to decide how to deal with this. At this point, my only solution is to carefully raise the trailer bed to shift some of the material rearward, but that is a pain to do and needs careful judgement (not all loads slide the same). I am wondering if I should fab up some sort of sealed chamber at the front of the trailer bed to block off volume so that material cannot physically occupy the front couple feet of the bed (it would have to be angled to force material to flow to the rear). Somehow I need to prevent operators from loading with a forward bias and the only solution I can think of is to eliminate that volume. Any other ideas?
1/2 ton your probably over loaded just with the trailer. Remember have an accident you may go to jail!
 

brettt

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1/2 ton have an accident you may go to jail, you may be over loaded with an empty trailer! We have 1 ton dully easy to over load with 5 ton dump!
 

4570Man

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Na, the 550's are just glorified p'ups, really need to go to a F6/750 minimum to be pulling that 10k tag trailer, then you can put all the tongue weight that you want on it.....

I agree. I use my 750 to move my lawnmower. There’s no way my 250 excursion or 3500 could do the job.
IMG_0618.JPG
 

TMGT

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I agree. I use my 750 to move my lawnmower. There’s no way my 250 excursion or 3500 could do the job. View attachment 714632
Hope you have a WD hitch, looks like too much tongue weight.
And what if a basket of bunnies suddenly blows into the roadway! Will you be able to stop that load in time?
You better just step up to a full size 7 axle dump for that load
 

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CADplans

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Ford made 750, 850 and 950 trucks since the 50's. In 2k Ford dropped all sizes except the 650, 750. Then in about 2019, they brought back the F-600.

https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=Awr9CWthPFBhHN4AJqxXNyoA;_ylu=Y29sbwNncTEEcG9zAzYEdnRpZAMEc2VjA3Ny/RV=2/RE=1632677090/RO=10/RU=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_F-750/RK=2/RS=eOh1Izj7Dlo4UjZ2m4c2jV5L10g-
Before the '69 Ford F750, my BIL purchased a '53 Ford F750,,
The '53 F750 blew the engine RIGHT in the middle of the wheat harvest,, he NEEDED that truck.
He had also purchased a '53 Lincoln, at the same time that he bought the F750,,

Well, he looked at the Lincoln engine, it was the same, enough to allow a one night swap, to get the F750 running.
The Lincoln was towed to the dealer, it got a new engine.

I worked on that farm in 1974,, the '53 F750 blew the engine again,
(the truck now had a lime spreader body on it)

We towed the truck to a local junkyard, those guys pulled a 370-2V engine and transmission out of a fertilizer spreader truck,,
and they installed it in the '53,,,
The new engine must have had at least twice the HP as the Lincoln car engine.

My BIL LOVED spreading lime with the "new" truck, going over a plowed/disked field, that engine would sing like a race car,,,
 

TMGT

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Ford made 750, 850 and 950 trucks since the 50's. In 2k Ford dropped all sizes except the 650, 750. Then in about 2019, they brought back the F-600.

https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=Awr...rd_F-750/RK=2/RS=eOh1Izj7Dlo4UjZ2m4c2jV5L10g-
They didn't add the -50 designation until the 2000 model, before that it was all -00. F500, F600, F700 etc.

There may have been a random 750 at some point in the model line (the 50 was added to the F100 to designated additional load capacity and to skirt some emissions) but I can't remember ever seeing one.
 
  
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OP
s219

s219

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1/2 ton your probably over loaded just with the trailer. Remember have an accident you may go to jail!

1/2 ton have an accident you may go to jail, you may be over loaded with an empty trailer! We have 1 ton dully easy to over load with 5 ton dump!

At this point I can't even tell if this is humor or a reading comprehension problem.
 

nisaacs

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Renze

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All of you guys being such a pain are going to get yourself as in all dump trailers banned from the quarry. The local quarry already increased the minimum charge to 5 tons because they’re so aggravating to deal with.
True... quarry loader operators dumping a full bucket over all four sides of a small trailer behind a small city car, locking the wheels in the spoils, is their way of saying "go to the landscape center, you have no business on a quarry"
 

CADplans

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They didn't add the -50 designation until the 2000 model, before that it was all -00. F500, F600, F700 etc.

There may have been a random 750 at some point in the model line (the 50 was added to the F100 to designated additional load capacity and to skirt some emissions) but I can't remember ever seeing one.
I guess the owners of the trucks that are pictured all over the internet had the trim custom made??
Like this one,,

image_b4f659f13330aa138f40d27491599a2c970224ce.jpg


or, is that the hood of a 2010 Ford F-Series??
I personally put a LOT of miles on both the '53, and the '69 F-750,,
 

Renze

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Wow. I think about 7 people in the last three pages have all said the truck is too small. Even though the OP has said about 7 times that it IS WITHIN THE WEIGHT RATINGS.

Sating a modern half ton is just a grocery getting is laughable. People need to grow up.
At a previous employer we had a customer who was fond of American pickup trucks. He bought the 1500 but first thing in the morning was ordering an air ride helper spring kit at us, because he felt it didnt handle right without stiffening up the rear springs, as half ton truck suspension is generally designed for smooth comfort, and not stiff enough to handle the legally 3.5 ton trailers we built for him, loaded at 5 ton loaded weight.

So yes, professionals whose opinion is that a half ton truck is unfit to pull 10k do have a point, knowing that they speak from the perspective of owner of a vehicle adjusted more towards towing and less towards commuting.
Yet the commuters who tow 10k in the weekend also have a point that their vehicle is rated for 10k so it is suitable...

Our customers found a Firestone air ride helper kit the ideal compromise between towing and driving to church, pumping the bags till they just started to lift the truck. It was smooth empty and firm loaded.
 

LAFarm

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Forgot to add photo, this was one of the loads from today:

View attachment 714089
have the same problem. showed loader operator where to place the load and asked he only load between 7 & 8,000 pounds as my trailer had a gvwr of only 14,000 lbs. he front loaded, so I asked him to add a little bit in the rear to lessen the tongue weight. when I crossed the scales, there was slightly over 18,000 pounds. my dump mechanism would not lift to dump the excess. had brand new 12 ply tires mounted and drove about 35 mph all the way home without incident. had to use the front end loader on the tractor (80 hp Massey Ferguson) to help lift the front to dump. on the next load, asked the loader operator to again only load about 7-8,000 lbs in the center. he did a little better and only loaded 14,000. the hydraulics still needed help from the tractor fel. I discussed it with the scale/ticket master and he said they weren't used to loading smaller trailers. I actually feel like its a passive/aggressive attitude of the individual operator in my case. he resents people trying to save a little money by hauling for themselves. dump truck operators here routinely charge twice the price of the materials or more per haul for a distance of less than 10 miles.
 

nikerret

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have the same problem. showed loader operator where to place the load and asked he only load between 7 & 8,000 pounds as my trailer had a gvwr of only 14,000 lbs. he front loaded, so I asked him to add a little bit in the rear to lessen the tongue weight. when I crossed the scales, there was slightly over 18,000 pounds. my dump mechanism would not lift to dump the excess. had brand new 12 ply tires mounted and drove about 35 mph all the way home without incident. had to use the front end loader on the tractor (80 hp Massey Ferguson) to help lift the front to dump. on the next load, asked the loader operator to again only load about 7-8,000 lbs in the center. he did a little better and only loaded 14,000. the hydraulics still needed help from the tractor fel. I discussed it with the scale/ticket master and he said they weren't used to loading smaller trailers. I actually feel like its a passive/aggressive attitude of the individual operator in my case. he resents people trying to save a little money by hauling for themselves. dump truck operators here routinely charge twice the price of the materials or more per haul for a distance of less than 10 miles.

None of the loader operators I work with are jerks, yours may be. However, they all speak in tons, not pounds. You say 7,000 pounds, his brain functions in tons.

Try speaking his language.

Of course, if he’s being a jerk, on purpose….
 

sandman2234

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Says the guy that cannot even spell kubota
Now, now, he is a newbie and hasn't had time to check the spell check error in his account details...YET!
I am sure he will notice that soon!
David from jax
 

bcp

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I've always thought a gravel-hauling trailer should be built small enough and strong enough to never be overloaded. But most dump trailers I see are used for lightweight stuff most of the time.

Bruce
 

DGHudson

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I got a 6x12 10K dump trailer earlier this year. Due to tow limits of my 1/2-ton truck, I never purchase more than 3 tons of material. When loaded properly, the trailer tows great. But I'd say 80% of the time, the local yards load me with a forward bias, creating too much tongue weight. I picked up three loads today and they were all forward biased, some worse than others.

I installed a W.D.H. to help in these situations, and it does what it is supposed to but won't cure poor loading or too much tongue weight. While pulling onto the scale for my first load this morning, I carefully noted the measurements as each axle went onto the scale, before and after being loaded. While eating lunch I did some math. The trailer has only 300# tongue weight when empty, which matches what I measured with a bathroom scale a couple months ago. When loaded too far forward, tongue weight was 1140#, more than my truck is meant to handle and visually way too much even with a W.D.H. If loaded evenly, it should have been in the 700-800# range.

I'm trying to decide how to deal with this. At this point, my only solution is to carefully raise the trailer bed to shift some of the material rearward, but that is a pain to do and needs careful judgement (not all loads slide the same). I am wondering if I should fab up some sort of sealed chamber at the front of the trailer bed to block off volume so that material cannot physically occupy the front couple feet of the bed (it would have to be angled to force material to flow to the rear). Somehow I need to prevent operators from loading with a forward bias and the only solution I can think of is to eliminate that volume. Any other ideas?
You can’t fix stupid, but you can teach.
Have the loader operator load directly over the center of your wheels.
If he doesn’t load it to your satisfaction, tell him that you have to dump the load, so he can get it right.
You do that once, he won’t screw it up again.
 

4570Man

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You can’t fix stupid, but you can teach.
Have the loader operator load directly over the center of your wheels.
If he doesn’t load it to your satisfaction, tell him that you have to dump the load, so he can get it right.
You do that once, he won’t screw it up again.

Or you get your trailer severely overloaded the next time. Or you get banned from the quarry. They already don’t like you guys. It wouldn’t take much to get banned entirely.
 

DGHudson

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Only had a problem once, younger operator, dumped the load, the young fellow was new in his job, appreciated the feedback. Every time I get a load there, the guys are great, whether it’s crushed stone or just gravel.

Perhaps you need to communicate with your quarry guys.
 

TMGT

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Or you get your trailer severely overloaded the next time. Or you get banned from the quarry. They already don’t like you guys. It wouldn’t take much to get banned entirely.
Not all are like that, I haven't been in a few years, but the quarry nearest me has an area with piles of the most common materials and a skid steer to load the smaller trucks/trailers.
That said, when I get 5tons they usually load it with a wheel loader from the main area but I've never had a problem getting a ton or 2 and seem happy for my business no matter how much I get.
 

4570Man

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Not all are like that, I haven't been in a few years, but the quarry nearest me has an area with piles of the most common materials and a skid steer to load the smaller trucks/trailers.
That said, when I get 5tons they usually load it with a wheel loader from the main area but I've never had a problem getting a ton or 2 and seem happy for my business no matter how much I get.

That sounds more like a landscaping yard vs a gravel quarry.
 

TMGT

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No...the "50" has been around since '53. read the link I posted. They didn't make a 550 or 650 back in the day, but 750, 850 and 950 were common.

For Sale: 1975 Ford F750 in Mankato, Minnesota

For Sale: 1978 Ford F750 in Cadillac, Michigan

1969 Ford F850 Fire Truck

1962 Ford F950 Fire Truck
Read the link, don't see anything referencing the -50 designation, were all the -50 the BIG JOB versions? Those were kinda a different class of truck that turned into the L series later on.
It's strange all of my service and parts references from when I use to work on them don't list any of the -50 designations until after '99
 

DGHudson

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I've always thought a gravel-hauling trailer should be built small enough and strong enough to never be overloaded. But most dump trailers I see are used for lightweight stuff most of the time.

Bruce
Guess it depends on what you’re hauling. I use mine for firewood, earth, and compost mostly. You can pile up a good looking load, crushed stone, well not too impressive looking, but it sure is heavy!
 

David_Kb7uns

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Get a bigger truck 1500 towing a dump trailer is a no go here. Takes me less then 2 minutes for a truck or 5 minutes for truck and trailer.. Yet waste over 5 to do a utility trailer for $20 You will only get a corner loaded bucket unless you have a full sized dump trailer and HD pickup. Have had requests to load box store utility trailers with a yard of rock (1.3 tons) , side by side utvs bed heaped,, and even the cut off top uhaul box trucks with a 5 yard load, almost 7 tons. Always count the lug nuts before loading trailer. Center on front axle but have requests to load rear only to make it easier to dump, and that is always denied The CAT 966G I run is 5 yards level 6 heaped and with moderate moisture I can load our 15 Ton 4 axle trucks with 2 good scoops. Always let the trailer owner tell me when on loading when to stop but have had several wave me on when loading the trailer and stopped at a safe point when the springs sagged. A few times trailer owners have regretted loading so much at their direction when fenders rubbed hard or when their car rated tires blew out. You go to the pit make sure your tires are inflated, chains hooked, brakes hooked up or there is a good chance you will not get loaded.
 

nisaacs

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Read the link, don't see anything referencing the -50 designation, were all the -50 the BIG JOB versions? Those were kinda a different class of truck that turned into the L series later on.
It's strange all of my service and parts references from when I use to work on them don't list any of the -50 designations until after '99

Here is a copy & paste of a small section of the link:

"For the 2000 model year, Ford introduced the seventh generation of its medium-duty truck line. Following the sale of the Aeromax/Louisville and Cargo heavy-truck ranges to Freightliner in 1997, these became the largest vehicles produced by Ford in North America. Following the 1999 split of the F-Series into light- and heavy-duty vehicles, medium-duty trucks became part of the Super Duty range. In another change, medium-duty trucks adopted the "x50" nomenclature used by Ford F-Series trucks since 1953, as the F-650 and F-750 Super Duty (the F-800 was dropped)."

I don't think the "L" series used the x50, just the F, N and C series. The L series replace the N series. I think medium duty was 500-800, which included the 750. The Heavy duty started with the 850, 900, 950, 1000 and 1100.

I think the "Big Job" was mostly marketing. The 'Super Duty v/8 in the heavy duty's, 401, 477 and 534 had a special badge also for some years. When the diesel became available in the medium duty's, Ford added an extra "0" I don't think the diesel used the x50.

Storage Yard Classic: 1963-70 Ford N-Series Trucks
 

TMGT

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No, as far as I know the L series never used the 50 designation, and yes the diesels just added a 0 to the model number, but I think that was only until about '70 when they switched to the L series I think, because they just added diesel badges to the 600, 700, and 800's. I'm pretty sure the L series derived from the heavy F line, the N was the cab forward version so maybe they just combined them both into the L?

Thats what drives me nuts about Ford, they have way to many models and subsets, GM seemed just as bad. Want to pull your hair out? Work on some of the 80-mid 90's GM pickups and try to do a rear brake job, i think there is about a dozen different combinations. Oh, and the one you need is never in stock!

I appears the 50 was only on the heavy trucks with the exception of the 750, I pretty much only delt with the medium line (which would explain why I only kind of remember a 750 but didn't see many of them).
 

John0829

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Back in the 70's Ford's Louisville line (L) did have the 50, the quarry I worked at had a small fleet of L750 single axle dumps with 391 gasser for delivery to individuals and L800 & L9000 tandem dumps for the construction/paving crews and some of the tandems did have diesels (the 9000's) but most of them had the 477 or 534 gassers.
 

Kschwennsen

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Speaking as an Engineer in the towing world, with a bumper tow trailer, you should have 10%-15% of your total trailer weight on the tongue of your trailer. This is the optimal loading parameters as too much or too little may encourage trailer sway at speeds. Now I've had both too much and too little tongue load and both can be scary to work with. I just tell the loader where to put the load as it's my bacon on the line going down the road not theirs. A good loader should know how to load a trailer though too.
 

Wood_Butcher_Dav

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Well found a photo of my '1500' size truck and single axle dump trailer. mater of scale, rated 3800 payload had 2t of sand and it dumped fine, could probably overload it with wet sand.

Dave
 

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TMGT

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Spotsylvania plant? Ive wondered if Walker (Rte 3 and 301) gets their stock from Luck.
No, thats the Bealton plant, I'm right at the Stafford/Fauquier line on 17 so its more convenient. Not sure if walker gets it from Luck or Vulcan, probably Luck as they seem to have a lot more locations, I'm never at walker, too far for me to go.
 

mikester

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Hauling 10,000 lbs with a half ton means you are driving at the limits of your vehicle. If your truck is new or very well maintained you can get away with it...hauling 1 load a mile down your country road. In reality you need a bigger truck.

Just because you can make it go doesn't mean you can stop safely or control your load adequately.
 
 
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