Mahindra no DPF and no Regen?

[Rmiked]

I love my Tier II 5065e so its not an issue for me. But for you guys that have Tier 4 machines and follow this emissions issue, what do you think of Mahindra and them making an engine with no DPF, no DEF and no Regen? I am an Engineer and find this intriguing. I am sure JD Engineers have their reasons, as well as Kubota and others. Seems like a big deal to me. Did anyone with a Tier 4 Deere consider Mahindra for these reasons? Just curious. Again, I bought my first tractor (2013 5065e) when I did to miss these complexities and I am keeping it until I die. But hearing the Mahindra ads and seeing some Utubes has my curiosity. What is the story? Thanks

 

[WM75Guy]

My Tier 4 New Holland Workmaster 75 uses DOC, so no DPF, regen, or DEF. Probably that is what Mahindra is using. Instead of intermittent regens of 900 degrees to clear the filter it runs a constant 300 degrees is how it was explained to me.

 

[Rmiked]

Wow. I was unaware any other manufacturers did same thing as Mahindra. I heard a guy on a U-tube claim Mahindra was unique. Seems like a significant plus to avoid the DPF and Regen. However, I have heard guys with Tier 4 machines that have DPF and Regen saying it worked well so far and their fears did not materialize (yet) into problems.

 

[rademamj1]

Mahindra does indeed use DOC, and it's a system that burns diesel particulates and gases in a rare earth ceramic catalyst. It is considered a minimal emission system and should the EPA ever increase their diesel particulate (DP) standards, Mahindra will be forced into the world of DPF. Companies like Kubota, John Deere and many others who have already shifted to DPF Technology, should already meet any future DP standards from EPA, no matter how stringent they maybe.

The DPF is basically a good system, but you must operate your diesel at higher rpm than most normally do, this to encourage automatic regens as you work. Consistent short time use of a tractor, at low rpm can quickly fill the DPF with particulates. So the harder you work your tractor, the better your DPF gets cleaned.

 

[Rmiked]

So I assume then Deere and Kubota do not use DOC (diesel oxidation catalyst) and the use of DPF and Regen avoids design changes if standards get more restrictive? I figured there had to be some sort of trade-off. However if standards changed in future, the DOC machines would be legit (grandfathered) and a current owner wouldn’t be worse off for having DOC. I’m guessing Deere sees some downside to DOC on reliability compared to DPF and Regen? Interesting the choices manufacturers make. I’m still liking my 2013 vintage Tier 2 machine but I like to attempt to keep up

 

[CowboyRon]

It works fine on my Mahindra, but there are drawbacks to the new setup. I never idle it below 1500, and this thing drinks like a sailor.
My 2011 4025 sips fuel.

 

[rademamj1]

Yes indeed. When EPA increases diesel emissions standards, it only applies to future manufactured vehicles, and all previous vehicles made prior to the new rules are grandfathered. Don't let the type of emission used by any tractor be a factor in your choice. Just be aware, if you purchase any DPF tractor, you will need to operate that tractor at higher RPMs.

Diesel tractor engines are tough and can operate for 4000 to 5000 hours at high rpm. Just look at diesel generators, many I know have 6000 to 10,000 hours on those diesels, running at 2500rpm for weeks.

By the way, Europe already has gone to Tier5 diesel emission standards, and all such vehicles are required to be DPF equipped. About 50% of vehicles on the road are diesel in Europe. Eventually the US will follow such standards.

 

[Rmiked]

Understood about the higher rpms. My 2013 5065E ideals around 800 rpm according to my tachometer, but it is Tier 2. I was unaware however that the Tier 4 engines idled higher. I believe I am seeing the rating rpm of Tier 4 JD at 2100 rpm vs mine at 2400 rpm. Don’t know why the rating rpm would be lower.

 

[jeff9366]

There are numerous reports on T-B-N of Mahindra sales personnel telling tractor shoppers that Mahindra tractors do not have a DPF and do not regenerate, both true; implying Mahindra is Tier IV compliant without emission control components. Not true, of coarse.

Beginning about thirty-three horsepower most tractors have Diesel Particulate Filters.
A few Tier IV compliant tractors between 26 and 75 hp use DOC (Diesel Oxidation Catalyst) conversion. Mahindra is one. Mahindra DOC is of similar construction to DPF. Both DPF and DOC are honeycomb ceramic filters which supersede the muffler. The DOC forces engine exhaust over a honeycomb ceramic structure coated with platinum, palladium, and rhodium. These catalysts oxidize carbon monoxide and hydrocarbons into carbon dioxide and water at hot exhaust temperature.

Mahindra has a DOC oven hot all the time, DPF tractors have an oven hot intermittently.

There is no free lunch.

The average residential tractor operates sixty engine hours per year, according to industry surveys.

3,000 hours DPF Life / 60 hours = 50 years of residential use prior to DPF replacement.

Diesel Particulate Filter supersedes tractor muffler.
At some point in time DPF needs to be replaced.
At some point in time tractors with mufflers need the muffler replaced.
At some point in time DOC needs to be replaced.

Tire wear and tire replacement will cause as many headaches and more expense than DPF/DOC for most long term compact tractor owners who read and comprehend their Operator's Manual.

For a commercial farmer operating tractor engine 300 to 400 hours per year DPF/DOC will require replacement more often than once in fifty years.

 

[Rmiked]

Jeff9366, thanks for that perspective on emissions. And I hear you on tire replacement. Ugh!