MF 135 with independent PTO Grinding while disengaging?

   #1  

bugman53

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Jun 26, 2017
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Greensboro NC
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MF 135
I have a 1967 MF 135 Diesel deluxe multi power with independent PTO. It has 6200 hours and runs great. I mow with this tractor with a 6ft finish mower. Yesterday when i went to disengage the PTO it started making a grinding (like gear teeth) sound until the mower stopped turning. It has been working great until yesterday. Normal i move the lever in the middle to let the pto slow down and then put it all the way down and it stops with no noise. Any ideas?

My best guess is the PTO brake disk broke and it making noise.
 
   #2  

jaxs

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I don't recall if Multi power work's same but on standards,you can't(or at least no supposed to) shift without clutching, up=engine rpm center=neutral down=ground speed.
 
   #3  

redman135

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jaxs is correct about the pto lever positions.
My MF135 was a 1964 model and there was no pto brake on it, it was wait for the mower to coast to a stop.I have never heard of a pto brake on the (100 series) tractors.
Just double checking, do you travel with the pto lever all the way down?
 
   #4  

klancf51

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CASE IH
I have a 1967 MF 135 Diesel deluxe multi power with independent PTO. It has 6200 hours and runs great. I mow with this tractor with a 6ft finish mower. Yesterday when i went to disengage the PTO it started making a grinding (like gear teeth) sound until the mower stopped turning. It has been working great until yesterday. Normal i move the lever in the middle to let the pto slow down and then put it all the way down and it stops with no noise. Any ideas?

My best guess is the PTO brake disk broke and it making noise.

This IPTO utilizes multi-power pump pressure to hydraulically actuate the PTO clutch. It definitely has a PTO brake (which is integral to the IPTO clutch assembly).
I generally engage the IPTO smoothly, but always disengage it quickly and at low RPM (to reduce wear on the brake/clutches).

Typically the PTO brake wear plate (p/n 515475M1) wears out and no longer makes contact (and the PTO braking function ceases altogether).
While it's possible that it could be the PTO brake disk, the noise is more likely originating in the IPTO clutch assembly.
If that's the original IPTO, at 6200 hours, the IPTO clutch and valve could be showing signs of wearing out.
My idea is: get a service manual and start troubleshooting. I wouldn't use the PTO until I got to the bottom of it: what you don't want is to destroy "non-wearable" parts (e.g. hub, piston, clutch retainer plate. housing, etc.).
The wearable parts (clutch plates, friction disks, wave springs, piston rings, brake wear plate) are available. This IPTO clutch and valve assembly was designed to be rebuilt - I've done it.
Good luck,
 
  
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#5  
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bugman53

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Greensboro NC
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MF 135
This IPTO utilizes multi-power pump pressure to hydraulically actuate the PTO clutch. It definitely has a PTO brake (which is integral to the IPTO clutch assembly).
I generally engage the IPTO smoothly, but always disengage it quickly and at low RPM (to reduce wear on the brake/clutches).

Typically the PTO brake wear plate (p/n 515475M1) wears out and no longer makes contact (and the PTO braking function ceases altogether).
While it's possible that it could be the PTO brake disk, the noise is more likely originating in the IPTO clutch assembly.
If that's the original IPTO, at 6200 hours, the IPTO clutch and valve could be showing signs of wearing out.
My idea is: get a service manual and start troubleshooting. I wouldn't use the PTO until I got to the bottom of it: what you don't want is to destroy "non-wearable" parts (e.g. hub, piston, clutch retainer plate. housing, etc.).
The wearable parts (clutch plates, friction disks, wave springs, piston rings, brake wear plate) are available. This IPTO clutch and valve assembly was designed to be rebuilt - I've done it.
Good luck,

I noticed that if i do this it does not make any noise.Quickly go from engaged to disengaged. It seems there is one spot half way between that it makes the rattling sound if the mower is still spinning. Does not seem to affect anything. It might be time to take the lift cover off and check everything out. I am sure the filters need cleaning anyway.
 
  
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#6  
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bugman53

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I took the top cover off today and found a couple things. The PTO brake caliper is loose and flopping around. Also found the hydraulic line to the PTO brake is now broken from being loose. The grinding i was hearing was the brake caliper rubbing the center "drive shaft" to the pinon gear. The brake disk is just floating on the IPTO clutch housing. Next figure out why the caliper is loose.

Also the draft control does not work on her so i am going to figure that out while i have the top cover off and clean all the filters. It will randomly lift the 3 point all the way to the top like the pump is sticking on going to check that out as well.

Any advice while i have her apart?
 
   #7  

klancf51

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The piston brake (caliper) should be attached with two 5/16" NC hex bolts.
There are variations on the IPTO Clutch and Valve assemblies with tractor S/N 46767 and up being the cut-off. Make sure you order parts accordingly. MF-135 IPTO Clutch & Valve.gif

With the hydraulic top cover on the bench, you should be able to troubleshoot the draft control by using the adjustment procedure in the service manual.
 
  
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#8  
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bugman53

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Update, It turns out the pin that comes through the side pto cover has a matching slot in the pto brake caliper assembly to keep it from rotating. That pin had backed out letting the brake caliper assemble rotate into the center pinion shaft. That was the rattling i was hearing. This also is what broke the Hydraulic lines.

The brake disk itself was the earlier style with no pins in the IPTO hub to keep it from falling off. I drilled the Hub for 1/8" split pins and the brake disk has a little play but not bad at all.

I thought i was going to get away without spiting her but i found needle bearing rollers in the bottom when i was cleaning her out. After some inspection This tractor has the early Flat bottomed IPTO/Multipower pump with the idler gear held by a thread in shaft. The needle bearing for the idler gear was gone and the shaft was stripped out of the housing and chewed up the ipto pump housing. Apparently this early pump is not available anywhere. I got lucky and found on ebay and entire Lift pump /ipto pump with the aux high capacity hydraulic pump out of a late model 165 for a good price and it is on the way. It is a 21 spline pump and my tractor is a 10 spline pump so i will either have to swap the assembly to the old pump or swap the shaft to the new pump. But that should get her up and going.

The IPTO was in good shape but i ordered new clutch disks for it since i have it apart.

This tractor did not come with the High capacity aux hydro pump. I plan to plumbing it to the side cover in case i ever need it since the new pump is coming with it. Any suggestions on how to do it?

The PTO side cover has 2 bosses the 2 bosses where the lines would go but they are not drilled. My plan is to drill and tap the PTO cover for the external lines and make up the internal lines to plumb it all up.

A couple questions though.

It seems there is a return port on the pump where the return line from the external lines would go through the side cover and then to the inlet of the aux pump. This seems like it would just short cycle the fluid and any trash would just circulate. It makes more sense to me to cap the return port on the pump and have the return just go inside the case so it will circulate fluid and keep it cooler.

What size fittings should i drill and tap for?
 
   #9  

mllud

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Update, It turns out the pin that comes through the side pto cover has a matching slot in the pto brake caliper assembly to keep it from rotating. That pin had backed out letting the brake caliper assemble rotate into the center pinion shaft. That was the rattling i was hearing. This also is what broke the Hydraulic lines.

The brake disk itself was the earlier style with no pins in the IPTO hub to keep it from falling off. I drilled the Hub for 1/8" split pins and the brake disk has a little play but not bad at all.

I thought i was going to get away without spiting her but i found needle bearing rollers in the bottom when i was cleaning her out. After some inspection This tractor has the early Flat bottomed IPTO/Multipower pump with the idler gear held by a thread in shaft. The needle bearing for the idler gear was gone and the shaft was stripped out of the housing and chewed up the ipto pump housing. Apparently this early pump is not available anywhere. I got lucky and found on ebay and entire Lift pump /ipto pump with the aux high capacity hydraulic pump out of a late model 165 for a good price and it is on the way. It is a 21 spline pump and my tractor is a 10 spline pump so i will either have to swap the assembly to the old pump or swap the shaft to the new pump. But that should get her up and going.

The IPTO was in good shape but i ordered new clutch disks for it since i have it apart.

This tractor did not come with the High capacity aux hydro pump. I plan to plumbing it to the side cover in case i ever need it since the new pump is coming with it. Any suggestions on how to do it?

The PTO side cover has 2 bosses the 2 bosses where the lines would go but they are not drilled. My plan is to drill and tap the PTO cover for the external lines and make up the internal lines to plumb it all up.

A couple questions though.

It seems there is a return port on the pump where the return line from the external lines would go through the side cover and then to the inlet of the aux pump. This seems like it would just short cycle the fluid and any trash would just circulate. It makes more sense to me to cap the return port on the pump and have the return just go inside the case so it will circulate fluid and keep it cooler.

What size fittings should i drill and tap for?

Wouldn't the return port have to be left open as an intake. Is there another intake?
It doesn't seem they would just loop the same fluid. It has to have an intake to get the fluid into the short cycle your referring to.
I would search for a flow diagram. May not exist .
I would drill and tap the same size as the internal pump fittings. I know that using a larger return line than the feed( intake) can cause cavitation.
 

mllud

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Massey Ferguson
Add an external filter to the return line to keep it clean. They aren't expensive.
 
 
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