MF35 Locked up (z134)

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shaeff

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You might want to look from the starter end. As I recall I had to look pretty hard to find that the ring gear was "out of plane".
Will do, certainly easier than dropping the pan.


Sounds like a dropped valve to me.

That would be ideal, easy fix as long as it didn't really screw anything up. I didn't see anything out of the ordinary when I looked in the cylinders, but the inspection camera I used left a lot to be desired.
 
   / MF35 Locked up (z134) #12  

5030

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Easy to ascertain without removing anything but the valve cover. Remove it and visually inspect the overhead. If there is a dropped valve, you'll see the stem will be higher than the rest and it will be an exhaust valve, not an intake.
 
   / MF35 Locked up (z134)
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shaeff

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Easy to ascertain without removing anything but the valve cover. Remove it and visually inspect the overhead. If there is a dropped valve, you'll see the stem will be higher than the rest and it will be an exhaust valve, not an intake.

Hoping to pull the cover this weekend. I’ll post some pics if I get around to it. Thanks!
 
   / MF35 Locked up (z134) #14  

rScotty

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That's one of my favorite old tractors. A friend had one for 40 years or more. Gasser. Needed nothing - except he perpetually wished for Power Steering. Like a lot of machinery from that era, they were designed to be worth keeping forever.

Returning to that rebuildable philosophy of mechanical design would solve a lot of climate and economic problems.

Anyway, getting off my soapbox.. I hope to follow along as you take a look in the engine, and hope you will post some photos.. One thing I wondered is it locked against rotation in both directions?
Also, I suppose you have lifted the rear tires and rotated them by hand to make sure that the lock is in the engine and not the clutch/transmission.
rScotty
 
   / MF35 Locked up (z134)
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shaeff

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That's one of my favorite old tractors. A friend had one for 40 years or more. Gasser. Needed nothing - except he perpetually wished for Power Steering. Like a lot of machinery from that era, they were designed to be worth keeping forever.

Returning to that rebuildable philosophy of mechanical design would solve a lot of climate and economic problems.

Anyway, getting off my soapbox.. I hope to follow along as you take a look in the engine, and hope you will post some photos.. One thing I wondered is it locked against rotation in both directions?
Also, I suppose you have lifted the rear tires and rotated them by hand to make sure that the lock is in the engine and not the clutch/transmission.
rScotty

This one has been great, I’ve owned it since 2015 and put hardly anything into it except rebuilding the hydraulic system in the rear and a solid tune up with electronic ignition.

It’s definitely in the motor, the transmission/rear is all free.

I pulled the valve cover today, I don’t have much for free time.

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   / MF35 Locked up (z134)
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shaeff

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Had more, not sure if I accidentally deleted.

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   / MF35 Locked up (z134) #17  

rScotty

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Nice pictures, the first thing that leaps out at me there is do I see green grass? In NY in November?

On the rocker shaft & valves I don't see anything obviously amiss. Do you?
A couple of little things:

I do see a little bit of carbon crust on the what I think are the exhaust valve springs. That's a sign of a some blow-by past the valve guides and valve stems. Pretty common in engines with lots of hours. In fact I've seen much heavier carbon buildup on old low compression engines that ran just fine. So that's expected and not the problem.

Hmm.....Is that wear on ends of the rockers where they push on the valves?? I can't tell if I am looking at wear or shadowing.....looks like wear. Again, consistent with lots of hours. Or they could have been made that way. If wear, one of them has a lot of it though I'm not familiar with that particular engine and that style of forked rocker to say for sure from photos.
But I don't see signs of anything that would lock it up. I didn't expect to.

On one of what I think is an exhaust (last photo, center) has excessive tappet clearance - but not as much as I'd expect if it would have if had struck the piston hard enough to lock up the engine.

Next move it it were mine would be to pull the plugs and look inside the cylinders. That might even be worth getting a borescope to look around. Price on some of those has come way down on Amazon. Some USB type are less than a head gasket. not I don't know much about them & not used one on an engine yet, but it seems better than pulling a head for no reason.
And that tool would give you a better view in the bell housing to see if anything came loose - like one side of the ring gear that several mentioned.

It's looking more and more like you will be dropping the pan.

rScotty
 
   / MF35 Locked up (z134)
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shaeff

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Nice pictures, the first thing that leaps out at me there is do I see green grass? In NY in November?

On the rocker shaft & valves I don't see anything obviously amiss. Do you?
A couple of little things:

I do see a little bit of carbon crust on the what I think are the exhaust valve springs. That's a sign of a some blow-by past the valve guides and valve stems. Pretty common in engines with lots of hours. In fact I've seen much heavier carbon buildup on old low compression engines that ran just fine. So that's expected and not the problem.

Hmm.....Is that wear on ends of the rockers where they push on the valves?? I can't tell if I am looking at wear or shadowing.....looks like wear. Again, consistent with lots of hours. Or they could have been made that way. If wear, one of them has a lot of it though I'm not familiar with that particular engine and that style of forked rocker to say for sure from photos.
But I don't see signs of anything that would lock it up. I didn't expect to.

On one of what I think is an exhaust (last photo, center) has excessive tappet clearance - but not as much as I'd expect if it would have if had struck the piston hard enough to lock up the engine.

Next move it it were mine would be to pull the plugs and look inside the cylinders. That might even be worth getting a borescope to look around. Price on some of those has come way down on Amazon. Some USB type are less than a head gasket. not I don't know much about them & not used one on an engine yet, but it seems better than pulling a head for no reason.
And that tool would give you a better view in the bell housing to see if anything came loose - like one side of the ring gear that several mentioned.

It's looking more and more like you will be dropping the pan.

rScotty
Yeah, it's been pretty mild here. I'll take it, although the ticks are out in full force when the weather is this mild.

I don't notice anything glaring, however it does seem that almost all of the rockers are nearly on the same plane. Tough to tell, I'll have to put a straight edge on it. The loader frame is pretty in the way at this point, but I'm only pulling the loader if I need to.

From what I know about this machine, it's never been apart. I was quite happy when I pulled the valve cover and it was as clean as it is, but yes, there's definitely some blow-by.

The rockers are definitely a bit worn, too. Again, I'm with you, don't see anything that would cause the machine to lock up. The head is coming off regardless, it needs to be redone. I get lots of oil leakage into cylinder 4, I'd like to get that taken care of.

Glad you noticed that last pic as well. There's also a small piece of maybe a shim or something that broke off and was sitting on the other side of the head. You can see it in the second to last pic on the right side.

I tried to look into the cylinders, the inspection scope I used wasn't small enough to really see what's going on. Again, with the oil leakage on #4, the head is coming off regardless. I'll put some bolts and washers in the block to hold the sleeves in, then see if it turns over. Worth a shot, but I doubt it at this point.

I still don't know if it could be a dislodged ring gear- the machine was down on power (not overheating, still full of oil) before I shut it off. There were no odd sounds or anything. It ran when I shut it off, turned maybe 1/8-1/4 of a turn with the starter the next morning and that was it. Locked.
 
   / MF35 Locked up (z134)
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shaeff

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Easy to ascertain without removing anything but the valve cover. Remove it and visually inspect the overhead. If there is a dropped valve, you'll see the stem will be higher than the rest and it will be an exhaust valve, not an intake.
See anything in the pics I posted above that looks concerning to you? I'll be pulling the head regardless, as I get some oil into #4 so I want to fix that once I find out where this issue is and how much it's going to cost me.
 
   / MF35 Locked up (z134) #20  

rScotty

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Nice pictures, the first thing that leaps out at me there is do I see green grass? In NY in November?

On the rocker shaft & valves I don't see anything obviously amiss. Do you?
A couple of little things:

I do see a little bit of carbon crust on the what I think are the exhaust valve springs. That's a sign of a some blow-by past the valve guides and valve stems. Pretty common in engines with lots of hours. In fact I've seen much heavier carbon buildup on old low compression engines that ran just fine. So that's expected and not the problem.

Hmm.....Is that wear on ends of the rockers where they push on the valves?? I can't tell if I am looking at wear or shadowing.....looks like wear. Again, consistent with lots of hours. Or they could have been made that way. If wear, one of them has a lot of it though I'm not familiar with that particular engine and that style of forked rocker to say for sure from photos.
But I don't see signs of anything that would lock it up. I didn't expect to.

On one of what I think is an exhaust (last photo, center) has excessive tappet clearance - but not as much as I'd expect if it would have if had struck the piston hard enough to lock up the engine.

Next move it it were mine would be to pull the plugs and look inside the cylinders. That might even be worth getting a borescope to look around. Price on some of those has come way down on Amazon. Some USB type are less than a head gasket. not I don't know much about them & not used one on an engine yet, but it seems better than pulling a head for no reason.
And that tool would give you a better view in the bell housing to see if anything came loose - like one side of the ring gear that several mentioned.

It's looking more and more like you will be dropping the pan.

rScotty

I see that shim.... no idea at all. Not only do I not know what it is, I can't figure out where it would have come from. It has to be part of the rocker gear.. right?? And where is the rest of it?

I looked around online to see if I could find an exploded view or parts diagram for the motor and couldn't find one. If you know of a link, let me know. There does seem to be a parts dealer in Canada whose website seems promising.

What I was looking for was to see if a picture showed anything in the front cam drive/timing cover that could explain a sudden lockup.
If the timing is by gears and the rest of the shim got caught between two gears it is one of the few things that might explain what happened to yours so suddenly and without even running.
I keep coming back to the only clue you have - that it was running fine and then the starter moved it just a little and no more. Maybe it is something simple in the bellhousing/starter system.

The problem I have with anything in the head and bore locking things up is that I would think you ought to have been able to at least rock the engine a few degrees of rotation with your pry bar. Well we will know eventually.

My inspection scope isn't small enough to fit through a spark plug hole either or into the bell housijng - it's a 75 foot for 4" drain lines. Chinese. Quite surprisingly good quality and well made.
I see quite a few mechanic's endoscopes for under $50 on Amazon that are USB type made to plug into a laptop computer.
That is still on my Christmas list, but before I get one I'd have to have some sort of idea of what features to look for. I'm trying to slow down on buying tools just to satisfy a one-time curiosity bump (hopeless, I know) and I know nothing about mechanic's scopes.
rScotty
 
 
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