Millermatic 211 vs. Hobart Handler 210MVP

   #1  

WADFL

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Currently have a Hobart Handler 140 and looking for a more powerful machine for Mig welding.
Figure the uses will be around the house, mower deck and farm implements, floor pans in old trucks, etc.

Keyed on the MM211 as a great machine + it's light (38 lbs) - should do everything I want. This one is about $1600.
The HH210MVP is about the same without the auto-settings, and weighs about double. (84 lbs). This one is $900.

Plan on keeping the 140 for backup usage.
Don't mind paying more if it's worth it long term.

What says the gang on which one is the best overall machine for the portability and money?
 
   #2  

sea2summit

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Long term I'd say you'll get your monies worth out of the miller. But really long term I might look at a 220 for a significant upgrade from a the Hobart 140.
 
   #4  

Metalman5767

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Currently have a Hobart Handler 140 and looking for a more powerful machine for Mig welding.
Figure the uses will be around the house, mower deck and farm implements, floor pans in old trucks, etc.

Keyed on the MM211 as a great machine + it's light (38 lbs) - should do everything I want. This one is about $1600.
The HH210MVP is about the same without the auto-settings, and weighs about double. (84 lbs). This one is $900.

Plan on keeping the 140 for backup usage.
Don't mind paying more if it's worth it long term.

What says the gang on which one is the best overall machine for the portability and money?
I've had the Hobart machine for 3 or 4 years and love it. Mine's on a welding cart so the weight isn't an issue. I would suggest getting the spool gun if you think you might do any aluminum work.
 
   #5  

BukitCase

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Neither of the two machines you mentioned will tell you what ACTUAL voltage OR feed speed you have, for that a more professional welder at maybe double the cost...

I've had the older mm211, sold it to a friend when I found a barely used MM252 for a bit less than HALF what Cyberweld wants - then I decided I could use a more portable unit, so bought the newer inverter MM211 (but I KEPT the MM252, it ain't goin' anywhere til I croak) - the newer MM211's "deluxe" autoset covers about three TIMES as many materials as the older version, including flux core, stainless, aluminum, and all THREE wire sizes used in this class machines - it also will handle a 15' gun (but you gotta buy that EXTRA)

The Hobart gives you 7 STEP settings for arc voltage, while the Miller is continuously variable - if you get picky about welds, a slight voltage adjustment can make SMALL changes in flattening out your weld beads.

As mentioned, the Hobart (I've heard, not used it) is a good machine too - just kinda depends on if you're an "options" kinda guy (I am) or a "basics" kinda guy... Steve
 
  
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WADFL

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I am leaning towards the Millermatic 211, as it's 1/2 the weight and more maneuverable. This is going to be a long term purchase so I'm not terribly concerned about the cost. I just need to ensure that it will complement my Handler 140 well, and give me a lot more options in the future.

I also saw the HF Vulcan MigMax215 - it actually looks quite appealing. Though I don't trust HF to last and I'm looking for a 20+ year purchase.
 
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BravoXray

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I have had a new inverter style MM211 for a couple of years now, and really like it. I was able to get it on sale at a local dealer for ~$1300. It has a lot more capability than I have talent for welding.
 
   #8  

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Why is one lighter?

Use to be, the heavier ones had more copper in them, and that meant they lasted longer.

SR
 
   #9  

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The Hobart is a heavy copper transformer machine...

The Miller is a inverter machine meaning it uses solid-state devices to convert "mains" AC voltage to low voltage DC through a lot smaller transformer...

IF welder is on a cart or wheels why is "weight" a issue....

I have a HH140 also and trying to justify moving up to a 210MPV... Wished I had gotten a 210MP for my meager welding needs, but at the time I didn't know what I really wanted when I bough the HH140.... But the HH140 had really met all the demands I have made of it....
 

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I have MVP 210 bought about 10 yrs ago. I like it. It is heavy but has amazing penetration for a smaller welder. Never gave me any serious issues, the Hobart has tap settings for voltage not infinite, (I prefer infinite) I used flux core and mig with it mig works good but I do replace tips more frequently compared to a Lincoln I used to have , no matter how much nozzle gel I use. I also have and use the spool gun (sp 100) I believe? for aluminum, works good but the spool gun is not the highest quality by any means I'm always afraid it will fall off the table and break. I use my 210 extensively for a few weeks then it will sit unused for a few months.
 
  
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WADFL

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The Hobart is a heavy copper transformer machine...

The Miller is a inverter machine meaning it uses solid-state devices to convert "mains" AC voltage to low voltage DC through a lot smaller transformer...

IF welder is on a cart or wheels why is "weight" a issue....

I have a HH140 also and trying to justify moving up to a 210MPV... Wished I had gotten a 210MP for my meager welding needs, but at the time I didn't know what I really wanted when I bough the HH140.... But the HH140 had really met all the demands I have made of it....

Yeah, same here. I didn't know anything so I went with the HH140. It's worked fine so far, but I want to have a better machine to be ready.
I'm looking for a 20+ year machine so one that's lightweight will be appreciated over time.
 

Teachu2

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Yeah, same here. I didn't know anything so I went with the HH140. It's worked fine so far, but I want to have a better machine to be ready.
I'm looking for a 20+ year machine so one that's lightweight will be appreciated over time.
I'm old school, distrustful of the long-term durability of solid state electronics. I have a Miller Dialarc 250P that's about 40 years old, a Lincoln AC/DC tombstone that's about 30, and a MM210 that's about 20. All work like new. None are lightweight machines. I don't know if the inverters will last that long.
 

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After 15y, my Hobart IronMan 210 still works great. I prob should change the tips more often, and use that anti-stick goo. Anyway, yeah it is heavy, but the wheels roll freely. I have a big 240VAC extension cord for the rare times that I weld more than 10' outside my workshop. I have successfully run .035 Al wire thru the feeder without a spool gun. I run big rolls (25#?) of ER70s .035 wire pretty exclusively now. I still have the Al and SS wire, just in case.

Only wishes: lockable wheels, and a place to hang the cables
 

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DF, those look like regular stem type casters, should be able to replace 'em with the locking kind?

Lead storage - my mm252 came with dual tank running gear, but only ONE lead holder - I got tired of having to separate ground, power and mig gun from the 30 foot spool gun leads (I use the auto gun switch a fair amount) so I sorta copied the factory lead hanger. My slip roll project is still just a project, so I bought a couple of these


a couple pieces of 1-1/4" square tube and couple metal screws, and now the spool gun lives on its OWN side - much less frustrating... Steve

Here's the casters I've used (except I use the plate mounts mostly)


Not cheap, but I've yet to have a failure in over 20 years, and I probably have close to 20 sets of 'em in service...
 
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WADFL

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I can buy a HH210MVP right now for $858 shipped to my front door. I just feel that besides the additional power options its the same thing as the HH140 I have right now, which is a good machine in it's own right.

Called around to a couple welding shops today. One had the MillerMatic 211 in stock, one could get it tomorrow, and another suggested the Lincoln Powermig 210MT instead.

The Lincoln looks like a great all around machine but I just don't want a welder with a LCD display for settings.

The shop closest to my house has the MM211 at the same price as CyberWeld, but CW throws in a free helmet. Will drive down there and see if they'll sweeten the deal next week, as I'd prefer to buy local.
 

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The Hobart is very good and welds very well.,. wouldnt scare me abit and lots cheaper and while its still likely to be running 30 years from now the money you save today would replace it then.
 

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My LWS shop beat all internet deals ten years ago for a Miller 211. Been a good reliable welder. Any welder best to improve the ground cable and clamp before your first arc. Switched to 15’ handset lead with no trouble. That little blue accuset light has me hooked. Most times spot on. Sometimes just needs a little tweak to improve the bead. Really spoils this old man.

I don’t know if the new mm211 has cooling fan on demand like the 252. A feature I wish I had. Reduces noise and dust drawn in the machine.
 

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Smokey, I have the inverter MM211 now, sold the transformer version when I found my 252. The newer 211 does have fan on demand, but I've yet to figure out why NONE of the three units pulls cooling air in from the REAR, instead of sucking crap in from the MORE LIKELY SOURCE of it...

My "bandaid" was to take a piece of scrap T1-11 siding and cut a slot in it, just large enough to let the torch/ground leads through - any time I have more than a quick tack or two, I put that piece over the leads and LEANING against the welder/cart, so there's plenty of air coming in from the SIDES, but NOT DIRECT from the crap source.

The newer 211's "advanced autoset" has about 3 TIMES as many choices as the previous version; solid wire, flux core, stainless, aluminum (spool gun only), all three common wire sizes instead of only .030 and .035, C25 OR CO2 (IIRC, only tri-mix for SS)

The cart I built for the new mm211
Cart 4 mm211
makes it about as mobile as it can be; took awhile, but well worth it for MY situation... Steve
 
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arrow

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I have an open garage. Cement floor on one side and crushed stone on the other side.
It is subject to every bit of moisture that the ambient humidity throws at it. I may have little leg to stand on with this statement considering the electronics in cars now a days but I join the camp of not trusting inverter welders subject to that type of moisture content.
I chose the Hobart for that reason.
My Longevity inverter gives me fits at times.
The Hobart 190 is smooth all of the time.
This may or may not be the result of the moisture content and might speak more to how they built the Longevity but give me copper windings any day for my situation.
 
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I've been running a HH210 since before they came out with the 210MVP. It has to be 10-15yrs old, countless large wire spools run through it. I've *never* had an issue with it. It does drive me nuts that there are voltage taps instead of infinite adjustment, but I just tweak the wire speed and travel speed to get the bead profile I want. It's been a fantastic machine. If you intend to move it around the shop, build a cart for it. It's annoyingly heavy to transport.

I'd have no problem getting either.
 

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I have 2 Hobart's (190 amp) and an ESAB pulsed mig and they get used in the shop for production I prefer the Hobart machines for wet out (75-25 only) and are capable of spray arc transfer. The ESAB give you a TIG looking weld with glue gun speed but the wet out and penetration is much less than the Hobarts.

Also have a Lincoln Invertig for non ferrous stuff, Had them all a few years and run them real hard and I've never had a duty cycle thermal shutdown on either Hobart and usually running at max amperage too. I'm a spray transfer nut anyway.

Only thing I don't like about the Hobarts is the wire capacity. I prefer 50 pound spools.

To me, for the price, the Hobart is the ultimate glue gun.

Would never consider a 110 machine at all. Has to be 220-1 or 3.
 

shaeff

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I have 2 Hobart's (190 amp) and an ESAB pulsed mig and they get used in the shop for production I prefer the Hobart machines for wet out (75-25 only) and are capable of spray arc transfer. The ESAB give you a TIG looking weld with glue gun speed but the wet out and penetration is much less than the Hobarts.

Also have a Lincoln Invertig for non ferrous stuff, Had them all a few years and run them real hard and I've never had a duty cycle thermal shutdown on either Hobart and usually running at max amperage too. I'm a spray transfer nut anyway.

Only thing I don't like about the Hobarts is the wire capacity. I prefer 50 pound spools.

To me, for the price, the Hobart is the ultimate glue gun.

Would never consider a 110 machine at all. Has to be 220-1 or 3.

Got any pics of the spray transfer from your Hobarts? I’ve done it once (probably by accident) with my 210 and loved it.
 

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Got any pics of the spray transfer from your Hobarts? I’ve done it once (probably by accident) with my 210 and loved it.
I don't do pictures as a rule, sorry. Bad enough I post tractor pictures once in a while. Not very photogenic. I'm old.
 

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Being old, I stay on the fence about inverter machines in general. They are substantially lighter and more portable but mine are all on carts anyway and the Invertig comes with a built in cart and consumables drawer factory. My Hypertherm is inverter as well. So far no isses with any but like I said, being old and old school, I prefer real windings.
 

shaeff

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I don't do pictures as a rule, sorry. Bad enough I post tractor pictures once in a while. Not very photogenic. I'm old.

Understood! :) I can't fault ya for that. These days, many people are eager, for lack of a better word, to share everything about their personal lives. I respect your decision.
 

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Shaeff, I doubt you actually did spray transfer by accident


check out the chart in above link; it's more likely you got into globular transfer instead of short circuit; globular sort of mimics spray, but isn't.
Note the gas mixes that DO support spray, IF your machine has the "cojones" to reach high enough voltage settings. (C25 isn't one of 'em)

Also, unless you're into more expensive welders (as in pulsed MIG) true spray transfer (because of the high fluidity of the welds) is only possible in flat or horizontal welds.

My MM252 is spray capable, one of the 3 bottles I got when I bought it used was a 90/10 mix (but almost empty) so I tried spray a bit - it'd be great for high production NOT OOP (Out Of Position) and it's FAST but a lot of my welding is OOP, so that machine stays set up for .035 hard wire and C25 gas. with that setup I can weld any steel from 16 gauge up to (multi-pass) 3/4". If I need to repair aluminum (sorta) I have a bottle of Argon and a 30' spool gun... Steve
 

shaeff

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Shaeff, I doubt you actually did spray transfer by accident


check out the chart in above link; it's more likely you got into globular transfer instead of short circuit; globular sort of mimics spray, but isn't.
Note the gas mixes that DO support spray, IF your machine has the "cojones" to reach high enough voltage settings. (C25 isn't one of 'em)

Also, unless you're into more expensive welders (as in pulsed MIG) true spray transfer (because of the high fluidity of the welds) is only possible in flat or horizontal welds.

My MM252 is spray capable, one of the 3 bottles I got when I bought it used was a 90/10 mix (but almost empty) so I tried spray a bit - it'd be great for high production NOT OOP (Out Of Position) and it's FAST but a lot of my welding is OOP, so that machine stays set up for .035 hard wire and C25 gas. with that setup I can weld any steel from 16 gauge up to (multi-pass) 3/4". If I need to repair aluminum (sorta) I have a bottle of Argon and a 30' spool gun... Steve

In that case, you’re correct. Thanks for the clarification, and I looked up the globular transfer and that’s quite like what I saw through my mask. I’m a novice, but nothing I’ve welded has ever broken so I’d call that a win. Thanks for the info!

Edit to add, that was a great post, thanks again!
 
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BukitCase

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You're entirely welcome; I've been a novice at one form of welding or another since about 1970 (acetylene), 1971 (TIG, known then as heli-arc), 1973 (stick, mentored by a pipeline weldor), 2011 (MIG, currently a MM252 and inverter MM211), 2013 (inverter stick/TIG unit, + plasma cutter)

Never done welding for a living (hence the novice status :=) but have gotten paid for it a few times - I'm still breathing and with all fingers and toes, largely because I believe in learning MORE than I'll ever NEED to about ANY endeavor that could change the above conditions, BEFORE I do it -

I've been called "weenie" and worse for that tendency, often by "dumb and proud of it" types that do NOT have all their appendages; but among other things, I'm a musician and play keys, guitar, bass, drums, and occasionally a bit of cello - I have more $$$$ tied up in music gear than most people do in vehicles; tends to make me think BEFORE I act...

Oh, forgot to mention; if you've not already found it, closest thing to an "over the shoulder" mentor for welding


I started learning about MIG from some of the pipe fitters on my maintenance crew, learned even more from Jody on the above site. Highly recommend... Steve
 

BukitCase

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Minnesotaeric, seeing your (and Dale's too, thanks) "like" reminded me of your new toy (and my tiny bit of jealousy :=), saw this blurb a few days ago and thought I'd make sure you had (if not, don't click on the link :devilish:


Not a LOT on pulse mig, and I woulda liked their spray chart better if it included the 90/10 mix my LWS carries, but oh well... Steve

Actually, found a bit more, link to Lincoln PDF -

 
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WADFL

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I'm going with the Millermatic 211.

Went back and forth, and the price on the miller increased $120 in the meantime.

I plan to keep this one for 15-20 years so I eliminated anything with a LCD screen control panel - which is a lot of good products.
 

BukitCase

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Cool; now that you've decided, here's a project that'll make sure it all works :devilish:

Cart 4 mm211

Feel free to steal any or all... Steve

BTW, that project actually starts on page ONE of that thread...
 
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WADFL

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Yes, thanks that's fantastic. I need a product like that to learn about welding.

I've only used my Handler 140 to weld in some floor pans, and I did a poor job. Need to learn how to weld correctly.
 

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shaeff

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You're entirely welcome; I've been a novice at one form of welding or another since about 1970 (acetylene), 1971 (TIG, known then as heli-arc), 1973 (stick, mentored by a pipeline weldor), 2011 (MIG, currently a MM252 and inverter MM211), 2013 (inverter stick/TIG unit, + plasma cutter)

Never done welding for a living (hence the novice status :=) but have gotten paid for it a few times - I'm still breathing and with all fingers and toes, largely because I believe in learning MORE than I'll ever NEED to about ANY endeavor that could change the above conditions, BEFORE I do it -

I've been called "weenie" and worse for that tendency, often by "dumb and proud of it" types that do NOT have all their appendages; but among other things, I'm a musician and play keys, guitar, bass, drums, and occasionally a bit of cello - I have more $$$$ tied up in music gear than most people do in vehicles; tends to make me think BEFORE I act...

Oh, forgot to mention; if you've not already found it, closest thing to an "over the shoulder" mentor for welding


I started learning about MIG from some of the pipe fitters on my maintenance crew, learned even more from Jody on the above site. Highly recommend... Steve

Right on, very cool! Jody’s videos are how I learned to Mig weld. Great resource!
 

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Miller bought Hobart a while back and both are a reliable machine. My welding supply company told me that the Miller is the better quality of the two. I own and use Miller, Lincoln and Hobart machines and all can be repaired at my local supplier. When I was in China, Miller and Lincoln were the machines of choice there as well. Just goes to show.
 

5030

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Myself, unlike tractor junkies, I'm not a machine junkie. I have a Lincoln InverTig, 2 Hobart 190 handlers (190 amps is the minimal output amount for spray arc transfer), A Miller gas drive Trailblazer and a Lincoln Pipeliner. All good machines. Almost forgot the Hypertherm and the Victor gas axe set. Like I said previously, the Hobart machines have an exceptionally soft arc and excellent wet out.... and they never break either. Their only downside is they won't accept a 50 pound spool of wire. 10 pound max.
 

5030

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Right on, very cool! Jody’s videos are how I learned to Mig weld. Great resource!
In reality a chimpanzee could lay down an acceptable MIG weld. Glue guns don't take a lot of skill, so long as the job is prepped correctly.

With welding, the devil is always in the details (Prep).

Why I like them, quick and dirty (not in the dross sense either).
 

greenerdreams

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nice choice on the miller it will not let you down. I had a miller 135 and sold for a 211. you mentioned keeping the 140 for backup, it will never be necessary. I have had my 211 for quite a while now and use it often never had a hiccup. sell the 140 and use the money for a spoolgun and argon tank and you can weld some aluminum as well.
 

5030

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Don't believe I've ever ran flux core wire in my life. Always solid wire and shielding gas. 75-25 for the MIG and straight Argon for the TIG. I use my Hobart's in a production setting or should I say my help does. Not much skill required to make an acceptable looking weld with proper penetration. Of course TIG is a different story. Do almost of that myself.
 

shaeff

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In reality a chimpanzee could lay down an acceptable MIG weld. Glue guns don't take a lot of skill, so long as the job is prepped correctly.

With welding, the devil is always in the details (Prep).

Why I like them, quick and dirty (not in the dross sense either).
Agreed.
 

MinnesotaEric

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I have both a Miller Multimatic 200 and 255 with access to a pair of Miller Multimatic 220s as well as engine driven stick welders and they are all awesome and they get used, but for the money, a Yes Welder MP200 looks enticing. Seems to me Yes Welder also offers a multiprocess 250 machine as well. https://yeswelder.com/blogs/yeswelder/yeswelder-mp200-5-in-1-welder-cutter-user-guide

Anyway, instead of looking at Miller's 220 as my next welder, I'm thinking of the Yes Welder's AC TIG machine for less than $600.
 

5030

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TIG is lift start and I'm not fond of that at all because you'll get a weld inclusion. I much prefer HF start and a foot pedal for control.

Never seen one before. I presume it's 'Chineseum'...
 
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Apr 7, 2009
Messages
59
nice choice on the miller it will not let you down. I had a miller 135 and sold for a 211. you mentioned keeping the 140 for backup, it will never be necessary. I have had my 211 for quite a while now and use it often never had a hiccup. sell the 140 and use the money for a spoolgun and argon tank and you can weld some aluminum as well.
update, maybe i just jinxed myself. the 211 decided to not turn on a few days after i originally posted. did a bunch of troubleshooting and it turns out there is a board problem. some internet searching shows me that this is not uncommon at all with the new style 211. I have it at the shop right now to see if there is any chance that a board component can be repaired before i am forced to replace the entire board but hopes are pretty low. I have recently been looking at one of the hobart transformer migs 210 or 240 so i don't have to deal with this again. the guy at my local shop said they almost never have transformers come in for repair but often see inverters, said the biggest concern is when a 40 year old transformer comes in the parts are usually not available. i am guessing there will be no 40 year old inverters, they will be in the scrapyard far before that. it seems like everything is moving towards throw away instead of repairable at some point.
 
   #48  

BukitCase

Elite Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2012
Messages
2,626
Location
Albany OR
Tractor
Case 580B, Long 460, Allis-Chalmers 160
Greener, in your earlier post you mentioned buying your mm211 "quite a while ago" - I'm hoping for your sake that does NOT mean it's out of warranty :(

I've only had Miller MIGs, both versions of the mm211 and the MM252, and one thing I've noticed is that ALL of them cool by pulling air IN AT THE FRONT - for the life of me, I CANNOT understand the SANITY of doing that; that is the MOST LIKELY place that will see grinding dust or slag, so why not pull cooling air FROM THE BACK INSTEAD???!?

I put too many hours into my custom cart for the newer MM211


to wanna "buy it again", so my "bandaid" for that engineering brain fart is a 2'x3' piece of OSB - leaned up against the front of the welder with plenty of room for "side" air but NOT DIRECT CRUD at the air intake - IMO, OSB isn't good for anything else ANYWAY :rolleyes:

I know it's not possible to "prove a negative", but if my inverter 211 craps out even WITH the "crap baffle", I'll know that there's more than ONE design flaw involved... Steve

Edit - at least, with the exception of the transformer MM211, the inverter 211 AND the MM252 have "fan on demand" so would be LESS likely to suffer from pulling in crap at the front...
 
   #49  

BukitCase

Elite Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2012
Messages
2,626
Location
Albany OR
Tractor
Case 580B, Long 460, Allis-Chalmers 160
Just remembered this discussion from awile back


HTH... Steve
 
   #50  

dfkrug

Super Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2004
Messages
6,539
Location
Santa Cruz Mtns, CA
Tractor
05 Kioti CK30HST w/ Prairie Dog backhoe, XN08 mini-X
the 211 decided to not turn on a few days after i originally posted. did a bunch of troubleshooting and it turns out there is a board problem. some internet searching shows me that this is not uncommon at all with the new style 211. I have it at the shop right now to see if there is any chance that a board component can be repaired before i am forced to replace the entire board but hopes are pretty low.
Sorry to hear. My Thermal Dynamics CutMaster 51 is inverter-based, and I hope it does not crap out.

I fix things here when I can, and I had a Generac inverter generator go out on me a few years ago. It was the inverter/rectifier/regulator board, which WAS replaceable, for 2x the cost of a new generator! The Chinese factory which made the boards would sell them for 1/20 of that, but you had to buy at least 10. :-(

The newish IGBT (insulated gate bipolar transistor) device technology makes these high-current inverter welders. etc. work. And work well they do. I love them. Then they quit, and essentially become unfixable. I hate that.

BTW, I tried to fix the Generac board. Took a few weeks to remove the potting epoxy, but I could not find a failed component. I was hoping it was one of the power semiconductors, as they are readily available and cheap. Nope.
 
 
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