MT4501D PTO tiller spins but kills motor when under load.....

[Kruzer214]

I have an MT4501D that I bought at auction a few weeks ago. Tractor runs strong. PTO did not engage at first. I raised and lowered the 3 point with weight and the PTO started to spin strongly. I attached my 5ft tiller. It took some time to start to spin the tiller but does so until I try to till the ground. As soon as I start to till the motor bogs down and dies. I changed the fuel filter and have a new hydraulic filter to put on. I do not know how long this tractor had sat before going to auction but my guess would be several years. The transmission oil is clear and looks fresh. The hydraulic hoses need to be replaced but are not leaking. Is it possible that the system may need bled? I have an owners manual and see nothing about that. Is it possible the wet clutches are bad? The motor also bogs down in high range first gear and dies. In mid range it runs but wants to die uphill. In low range runs like a champ. Any input or direction would be greatly appreciated!!

 

[bmaverick]

Welcome to the forum.

The first action to take would be a hydraulic fluid change and clean/replace the filter.

Per the MT4501 manual, this is the hydraulic oil to use.

Here is one manufacture of the hydraulic oil for your machine,

Castrol oils and lubricants for your MITSUBISHI [Tractors/ Tillers] MT4501, MT4501D

CASTROL AGRI TRANS PLUS 80W​

A multipurpose, wet brake transmission fluid for use in hydraulics, transmissions and PTOs. Its SAE 10W-30 viscosity rating makes it particularly suited to regions with cooler climates and where a lighter viscosity lubricant is recommended.

When running just the 3PT lift, the PTO should not begin to spin. Something is amiss.

Recall, these manuals were issued PRIOR to the multi-grade oils in use today.

Thus for engine oil, the 10W would cross over to 10W30 diesel oil such as Rotella T4 10W30 diesel. Japan tractors are engineered to JIS standards and NOT to SAE. Remember that.




At the top of this section, look at the PINNED topic and download the PDF for info on your machine and the Mitsubishi-Satoh Parts Network.

 

[Kruzer214]

Thanks for the response. Changed the filter today and found a rubber hose joining the main hydraulic line from the pump and it appears to be collapsed so I am sure this is the main issue now that I can see the whole line. I did change the filter and that made a little difference. As for the PTO spinning while lifting the 3pt I had the independent PTO switch on hoping to build pressure and remove air as I am sure this tractor had not been used in a few years or longer. Need to see why this rubber line is on the main line and either weld a new piece in place or pickup something better than rubber line to replace what is there. Again thanks for the info. I do have an owners manual if anyone needs any part of it.

 

[bmaverick]

Thanks for the response. Changed the filter today and found a rubber hose joining the main hydraulic line from the pump and it appears to be collapsed so I am sure this is the main issue now that I can see the whole line. I did change the filter and that made a little difference. As for the PTO spinning while lifting the 3pt I had the independent PTO switch on hoping to build pressure and remove air as I am sure this tractor had not been used in a few years or longer. Need to see why this rubber line is on the main line and either weld a new piece in place or pickup something better than rubber line to replace what is there. Again thanks for the info. I do have an owners manual if anyone needs any part of it.

Either the hose collapsed due to age, rotted from inside out, or that the filter was badly clogged and the section was so great it collapsed. Something caused the hose to fail, either itself or something up stream.

 

[Kruzer214]

OK so I played with the hydraulic line feeding the pump. Not sure why the rubber hose was angled the way it was but the hose was not strong enough to not get sucked closed. I took the mount bolt from the filter to the tranny off and realigned the line. Ended up with a few mm between the pipes, used a short piece of reinforced hose and it now works beautifully. New issue is the motor dies when going up hill. It blows black smoke as if not burning the fuel, bogs down and dies. Also does this while tilling if I go too deep. I can get up hill in low range 1st gear but it is a struggle after about 10 yards. I have changed the fuel filter. I am starting to think clutch may be slipping or bad. It sometimes takes lowering rpms to not grind gears with clutch engaged going from 1st to reverse and back and other times it shifts fine. The tractor does not like to run in high range at all. Mid range in 1st gear it will run on flat and downhill but uphill it struggles and dies. Before I split this beast open to change the clutch any other thoughts? I have no clue how many hours are on it as the gauges are broken and the cable is not hooked up. Most electrical is nonexistent except to necessary engine components. The injector pump has the cables hooked up in a very rigged way but the throttle works both with the main lever and the foot pedal. This is going to end up being a project I am sure but any ideas about the bogging down and dying going up hill and in mid and high ranges would be much appreciated!!!

 

[bmaverick]

OK so I played with the hydraulic line feeding the pump. Not sure why the rubber hose was angled the way it was but the hose was not strong enough to not get sucked closed. I took the mount bolt from the filter to the tranny off and realigned the line. Ended up with a few mm between the pipes, used a short piece of reinforced hose and it now works beautifully. New issue is the motor dies when going up hill. It blows black smoke as if not burning the fuel, bogs down and dies. Also does this while tilling if I go too deep. I can get up hill in low range 1st gear but it is a struggle after about 10 yards. I have changed the fuel filter. I am starting to think clutch may be slipping or bad. It sometimes takes lowering rpms to not grind gears with clutch engaged going from 1st to reverse and back and other times it shifts fine. The tractor does not like to run in high range at all. Mid range in 1st gear it will run on flat and downhill but uphill it struggles and dies. Before I split this beast open to change the clutch any other thoughts? I have no clue how many hours are on it as the gauges are broken and the cable is not hooked up. Most electrical is nonexistent except to necessary engine components. The injector pump has the cables hooked up in a very rigged way but the throttle works both with the main lever and the foot pedal. This is going to end up being a project I am sure but any ideas about the bogging down and dying going up hill and in mid and high ranges would be much appreciated!!!

Big question, what hydraulic fluid are you using. I only ask because in the recent years several class action lawsuits of failed machines are a result of marketing blunders of really inferior hydraulic fluid on the market. In fact, NAPA was hit hard in the suit and on their website now, they state "No Implied Warranty" with a few of their hydraulic fluids. TSC low end brand is the same stuff, Farm & Fleet, Rural King and a host of others are in this mix.

Why bring this up, because what you have described in your posting reflects using that type of fluid. The fluid makes seals swell too much and chokes off flow in the system. It gets thicker like a gel when worked harder.

TSC has a fluid that works to many of the Japan Tractor JIS specifications.
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/traveller-premium-universal-tractor-trans-hydraulic-fluid

Mitsubishi has made tractors for several of the brands listed in the Product Details of this fluid too.

The fluid works with Japan made tractors of Yanmar, Kubota, Deere (Yanmar), Ford (Shibarura), Case-IH (Mitsubishi), M-F (Mitsubishi), and others.

Additionally, under power can relate to the engine oil too. Japan made tractors based on JIS and not SAE, are typically 10W30 diesel grade. Rotella T4 10W30 diesel has been the go to.

Another issue with low power is the air intake. Diesel engines suck so much air vs. a gasser. Keeping the air filter clean is a must.

Lastly, when was the last time a Seafoam cleaning was done for the diesel injectors? Seafoam was originally developed for diesel engines.

Seafoam would also help clean out the soot buildup doing an intake dribble method while running the engine about 1600rpms. Some people open the injectors port. pour in Seafoam directly, let it sit for an hour or so if it's super bad. But, make sure you have the right tools for injector removal.

 

[Jerry/MT]

I have an MT4501D that I bought at auction a few weeks ago. Tractor runs strong. PTO did not engage at first. I raised and lowered the 3 point with weight and the PTO started to spin strongly. I attached my 5ft tiller. It took some time to start to spin the tiller but does so until I try to till the ground. As soon as I start to till the motor bogs down and dies. I changed the fuel filter and have a new hydraulic filter to put on. I do not know how long this tractor had sat before going to auction but my guess would be several years. The transmission oil is clear and looks fresh. The hydraulic hoses need to be replaced but are not leaking. Is it possible that the system may need bled? I have an owners manual and see nothing about that. Is it possible the wet clutches are bad? The motor also bogs down in high range first gear and dies. In mid range it runs but wants to die uphill. In low range runs like a champ. Any input or direction would be greatly appreciated!!

With regard to the motor dying, make sure you have adequate fuel delivery to the injector pump (IP). Changing the fuel filter helps if the filter is limiting flow but crud can collect at the tank outlet, within the filter head, etc. You could have pinched or clogged fuel lines, a bad lift pump( if installed). Disconnect line that supplies fuel to the IP and crank the engine as if to start. You should have a CONINUOUS gush of fuel supplying the IP. If it dribbles or is intermittent, work back to the tank checking components to find the blockage.

 

[Kruzer214]

Big question, what hydraulic fluid are you using. I only ask because in the recent years several class action lawsuits of failed machines are a result of marketing blunders of really inferior hydraulic fluid on the market. In fact, NAPA was hit hard in the suit and on their website now, they state "No Implied Warranty" with a few of their hydraulic fluids. TSC low end brand is the same stuff, Farm & Fleet, Rural King and a host of others are in this mix.

Why bring this up, because what you have described in your posting reflects using that type of fluid. The fluid makes seals swell too much and chokes off flow in the system. It gets thicker like a gel when worked harder.

TSC has a fluid that works to many of the Japan Tractor JIS specifications.
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/traveller-premium-universal-tractor-trans-hydraulic-fluid

Mitsubishi has made tractors for several of the brands listed in the Product Details of this fluid too.

The fluid works with Japan made tractors of Yanmar, Kubota, Deere (Yanmar), Ford (Shibarura), Case-IH (Mitsubishi), M-F (Mitsubishi), and others.

Additionally, under power can relate to the engine oil too. Japan made tractors based on JIS and not SAE, are typically 10W30 diesel grade. Rotella T4 10W30 diesel has been the go to.

Another issue with low power is the air intake. Diesel engines suck so much air vs. a gasser. Keeping the air filter clean is a must.

Lastly, when was the last time a Seafoam cleaning was done for the diesel injectors? Seafoam was originally developed for diesel engines.

Seafoam would also help clean out the soot buildup doing an intake dribble method while running the engine about 1600rpms. Some people open the injectors port. pour in Seafoam directly, let it sit for an hour or so if it's super bad. But, make sure you have the right tools for injector removal.

I bought this at auction a few weeks ago and have no clue what hydraulic fluid is in the tranny. Changing that is on the list. Unfortunately the TSC brand you suggest is not available in W. PA anywhere. Will tey to find the Castrol suggested earlier. I am using an Amsoil diesel 10w30 synthetic that I use in my Sierra Duramax. I did pickup a new air filter today and will be changing that soon. I have changed the fuel filter and flow is not an issue thru the filter but I do need to run the hose the whole way to make sure it's not pinched off somewhere. That being said black smoke indicates unburnt fuel so I don't think fuel delivery to the pump is an issue. I used some Lucas diesel injector additive but will try seafoam. Good news is at least new injectors are available if needed. Thanks for all the input. I can solve gasoline issues but this is my 1st diesel tractor. Between it and the GMC I am learning a ton about diesels. All this emissions crap on the Sierra is driving me insane with codes so that has been my main focus lately. I will post an update when I get if figured out or need a new direction!!! Thanks again guys I truly appreciate all the input!!

 

[Kruzer214]

Seems I can't find the Castrol hydraulic fluid either...any other suggestions?

 

[bmaverick]

I bought this at auction a few weeks ago and have no clue what hydraulic fluid is in the tranny. Changing that is on the list. Unfortunately the TSC brand you suggest is not available in W. PA anywhere. Will tey to find the Castrol suggested earlier. I am using an Amsoil diesel 10w30 synthetic that I use in my Sierra Duramax. I did pickup a new air filter today and will be changing that soon. I have changed the fuel filter and flow is not an issue thru the filter but I do need to run the hose the whole way to make sure it's not pinched off somewhere. That being said black smoke indicates unburnt fuel so I don't think fuel delivery to the pump is an issue. I used some Lucas diesel injector additive but will try seafoam. Good news is at least new injectors are available if needed. Thanks for all the input. I can solve gasoline issues but this is my 1st diesel tractor. Between it and the GMC I am learning a ton about diesels. All this emissions crap on the Sierra is driving me insane with codes so that has been my main focus lately. I will post an update when I get if figured out or need a new direction!!! Thanks again guys I truly appreciate all the input!!

The Amsoil diesel 10W30 synthetic would work nicely.

Yes, there is a hydraulic fluid shortage right now in the market. In the EU, people are using Mopar ATF+4 as it's full synthetic in their Japan made tractors as they have issues getting UTTO grades over there right now.

TSC (Tractor Supply) stores. Many are down the I-79 and I-76 towns in W PA.