My Industrial Cabin Build

deezler

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Well now that we're all properly entranced by the fancy new machine, would you care to share how much you paid for it (and how many hours it has) ? :) Ok if not.

Those blades are gonna take a real beating mowing that rocky dirt patch, haha. I'm kind of amazed it only weighs 1600 lbs.
 

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It really is , and it is capable of so much more. I hope to be able to showcase some of the amazing things it can do. It also has a cat 1 3 point hitch which will come in quite handy as well. The limiting factor will be tractor weight which is only 1600 ish lbs. I was very pleased to have things work out the way they did.
And you kept the cap! (But she got the Ventrac!) Jon
 
  
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The dealer didn’t have any Ventrac hats. I ordered mine from Ventrac’s website. I also got my wife a stamped aluminum Ventrac keychain and you would have thought it was gold. She loves it.

The tractor has 2040 hours on it. My price out the door was just under $20K. That includes tax. The price breakdown was
$15k for the tractor
$3,600 for the Tough Cut mower

That falls in line with the current market. Even with the high amount of hours.

New, this would have come in around $32k with all the options it has. It was a tough bite to take.
 

deezler

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Haha, I ordered my Kioti hat and t-shirt off the web too (also bought used). Yeah, we knew it wouldn't be a cheap machine. Definitely a big bite to take while the house build is still sucking down cash left and right.... keep up the good work.

Are you dreaming of a move in date yet? Or still way too soon for that.... ? Temporary C-of-O before final? We moved in right after our temp was granted, finished the final about 5 months later.
 
  
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We are hoping in spring. I an just trying to move as fast as I can thru the steps that I know must be done to get drywall up and make sure I dont forget something critical.
 

Kyle_in_Tex

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You will be amazed at the work that thing can accomplish. I know you already have a box blade for the tractor, and it's hard to tell just how steep hills are from pictures, but you might could level out a lot of that dirt with the box blade type implement. Just take little bites like spreading icing on a cake.

You two impress me with your energy levels. I hope your arm is good to go.
 

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Don’t think I could pay that price though.
 
  
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WoodChuckDad

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Hello David,

This referring back to post 2497 regarding your pump selection and options. It's always preferred to buy from your local suppliers but if they don't/won't then buy on line and install it yourself. I have used You are being redirected... as a source for pumps, pipe and systems and as posted with a materials list, a full pump setup was around $2500. as posted.

I called the folks at Aqua sciences today. She priced out the stuff I need.
She priced a goulds pump that should give me 15 gallons a minute at 40 psi. At about 2950 and a goulds constant pressure system that would give me 15 gallons per minute up to 70 psi at 2750.
The constant pressure is appealing because there is no well tank involved. The downside is there is no reserved water if you lose power.

Anybody have experience wit this kind of system?
 

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You should have claimed a tax exemption as this is being used around the vineyard. You can also claim it as a Section 179 deduction on your taxes.
 
  
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WoodChuckDad

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You should have claimed a tax exemption as this is being used around the vineyard. You can also claim it as a Section 179 deduction on your taxes.

The Ventrac? Yes, it is a farm implement. We try not to buy each other things that are not for work on the farm. You really have to be on the same page for that to work. I know of many couples where they are not equally enthusiastic about farm life.
 

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GSVette

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I have the constant pressure valve system from CycleStop on my Grundfos well pump. It does have a tank (I have the optional larger tank on mine) that you draw from for low demand (less than 0.5 hon iirc) until the pressure drops below cut-in at which time it will refill. At higher demand you get the constant pressure that the valve is set to.

Really like my system-constant pressure is really nice.
 
  
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WoodChuckDad

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I should correct myself. The direct pressure system comes with a 4.4 gallon tank that is attatched to a small manifold, which can be mounted to a wall. I have a 40 inch space just inside the door to the mechanical room where I could mount this to the stud wall and free up enough floor space for a water softening filter system.
 
  
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WoodChuckDad

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I have the constant pressure valve system from CycleStop on my Grundfos well pump. It does have a tank (I have the optional larger tank on mine) that you draw from for low demand (less than 0.5 hon iirc) until the pressure drops below cut-in at which time it will refill. At higher demand you get the constant pressure that the valve is set to.

Really like my system-constant pressure is really nice.

After reading, my only concern is power. I will be on the grid but we are end of the line. Have you had any issues with the drive?
 

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Not sure what you are asking-if you’re asking about the ‘drive’ part of a VFD well pump-I don’t have a VFD pump-the constant pressure valve (CycleStop) valve is used with a standard constant speed motor.
 
  
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WoodChuckDad

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Not sure what you are asking-if you’re asking about the ‘drive’ part of a VFD well pump-I don’t have a VFD pump-the constant pressure valve (CycleStop) valve is used with a standard constant speed motor.
Ok. Yeah I am really liking the idea of the extra space I would get with the VFF. Entry coat is less. Future costs are higher but It would solve my issues.
 

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Ok. Yeah I am really liking the idea of the extra space I would get with the VFF. Entry coat is less. Future costs are higher but It would solve my issues.

With the constant pressure valve you get all the the benefits of the VFD without all the added cost and complexity.

I have run my pump off of my generator. So I still have water and most everything else when power goes out.

My system shown below. CycleStop valve is red item in photo

IMG_1362.JPG
 
  
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Evidently you did not read about the cycle stop valve that I posted up thread :(.


I was in the parking lot of lowes, on the way home from work, yesterday when I opened that link and gave it a quick look.
For the system she quoted me, I thought it included a cyclestop and the VFD drive. So I thought they were part of the same system. I just sat down and read the article and became more confused so I went back and looked at the order quote and the website again. They sell the cycle stop but that wasn’t included on the manifold that was in the package. I will have to read more on this. Not gonna happen tonight though. I am on call and I am wiped out from lack of sleep.
 
  
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WoodChuckDad

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With the constant pressure valve you get all the the benefits of the VFD without all the added cost and complexity.

I have run my pump off of my generator. So I still have water and most everything else when power goes out.

My system shown below. CycleStop valve is red item in photo

View attachment 716315

I am finally starting to understand. How long have you had this system?
 

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About 3 years now-have a lot of experience with pressure tank systems and much prefer this.
 

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FYI - The cyclestop valve guy is on TBN. I think he goes by Valveman or something similar.
 

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Just started watching latest video

How will you get wires in the side of the panel with studs on both sides?

Cover will be off until all circuits are installed. Those square holes in cover screws are for a square bit, I use flat screwdriver.

I would have installed a large sheet of plywood on the wall and stuck the panel on it.
 

dstig1

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I fed my entire panel from the top and bottom, so it is doable as long as you plan well and double-up wires through cable clamps. But you are going to need some way to secure wires within a few inches of the panel, so a 1x board set in between the studs may be wise. You are going to end up cursing having put it in between the studs as access is going to be a PITA. But it will look prettier in the end!

Unless you have a local code requirement on # of boxes per circuit, there is nothing in the NEC about it. The rule I am aware of for commercial work is 13 receptacles on a 20A 120V line. But only commercial as there are no requirements in residential for this. Modern houses can get crazy with the number of circuits in them, so you do need to pay attention when planning this so you don't run out. Not putting enough on a circuit can cause you more problems this way.

I have found it much better to separate outlets from lighting. You group together a large section of room lights on a 15A circuit, and then a room or two of outlets on a 20A. The main reason for this is lighting loads are really very light (pun not intended, but I'll take it...) plus the fixture wires are very often these super tiny 18ga (or worse) things and they do NOT like to cooperate with a beefier 12ga romex wire. Lights are also fairly fixed so you can figure out how much load you have and be pretty solid on it. Outlets can get anything plugged in, so it is safer to go up to 20A for those which also makes for fewer nuisance trips. Judging by what I see for your house layout and size, you could probably run 2 or 3 lighting circuits to cover all your lights. Being new you are probably going to have LEDs pretty much everywhere and they draw nothing to speak of.

Count up the number of 220V breakers you will need. Typically well, AC or heat pump, stove, oven, water heater are the things to watch for. If you have all of those that is 10 spaces gone which is 1/4 of your total in a 40-space 200A panel. If you run a subpanel from your main, that is another double. Then you have the required dedicated single pole circuits - kitchen x2, microwave, each bath gets one, laundry. That is 6+ more spaces gone. It gets tight in there pretty quick...
 

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Getting access to those side knock outs and securing the wires is not going to be easy !

I have watched alot of Holmes on Homes construction shows. One thing that always caught my eye was the way his electricians mounted the main service panel. 90% of the time the box is mounted on a 3/4" plywood panel. But the main thing to me was they usually mounted the service panel in a horizontal position not the vertical position ! Not sure why but his show is based out of Canada most of the time and maybe they have a reason for doing it that way ?

One last item. Do you put your higher rated breakers ( stove, ac, dryer, etc. ) at the top of the panel ?? Was told by a electrician you need to do this as it can cause your lights to flicker when one of these high output appliances turns on and that breaker was near the bottom of the panel. ? It was happening to me when the ac turned on. So i had the ac people install a 'soft' start capacitor and the problem went away.
 

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I don't know about "top" of the panel -- panels rarely have a common orientation -- but more importantly, "nearest to the main breaker".

My GE main panel has the main breaker at the bottom, and that is where all the high draw circuits are stacked and also where the generator back feed breaker comes in.
 

747driver

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I don't know about "top" of the panel -- panels rarely have a common orientation -- but more importantly, "nearest to the main breaker".

My GE main panel has the main breaker at the bottom, and that is where all the high draw circuits are stacked and also where the generator back feed breaker comes in.
My main panel ( GE ) at the house has the main breaker at the top, but the main panel ( Sq D ) breaker in the barn is at the bottom. You are correct in the wording...nearest to the main breaker !
 

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I fed my entire panel from the top and bottom, so it is doable as long as you plan well and double-up wires through cable clamps. But you are going to need some way to secure wires within a few inches of the panel, so a 1x board set in between the studs may be wise. You are going to end up cursing having put it in between the studs as access is going to be a PITA. But it will look prettier in the end!

Unless you have a local code requirement on # of boxes per circuit, there is nothing in the NEC about it. The rule I am aware of for commercial work is 13 receptacles on a 20A 120V line. But only commercial as there are no requirements in residential for this. Modern houses can get crazy with the number of circuits in them, so you do need to pay attention when planning this so you don't run out. Not putting enough on a circuit can cause you more problems this way.

I have found it much better to separate outlets from lighting. You group together a large section of room lights on a 15A circuit, and then a room or two of outlets on a 20A. The main reason for this is lighting loads are really very light (pun not intended, but I'll take it...) plus the fixture wires are very often these super tiny 18ga (or worse) things and they do NOT like to cooperate with a beefier 12ga romex wire. Lights are also fairly fixed so you can figure out how much load you have and be pretty solid on it. Outlets can get anything plugged in, so it is safer to go up to 20A for those which also makes for fewer nuisance trips. Judging by what I see for your house layout and size, you could probably run 2 or 3 lighting circuits to cover all your lights. Being new you are probably going to have LEDs pretty much everywhere and they draw nothing to speak of.

Count up the number of 220V breakers you will need. Typically well, AC or heat pump, stove, oven, water heater are the things to watch for. If you have all of those that is 10 spaces gone which is 1/4 of your total in a 40-space 200A panel. If you run a subpanel from your main, that is another double. Then you have the required dedicated single pole circuits - kitchen x2, microwave, each bath gets one, laundry. That is 6+ more spaces gone. It gets tight in there pretty quick...
I'm not 100% sure, but in residential work, isn't it code for ALL outlets to be only 15 amps now? Or maybe that is just bedrooms, etc?
 

buckeyefarmer

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I believe it’s 20 amp circuit, but outlets themselves can be 15A rated if multiple, unless a dedicated 20A load. For my fridge, I had to put in a single outlet, not a duplex. I haven’t looked at a code book in several years.

It looks nice recessed in a wall, but it’s hell trying to add circuits later. I have moved circuits many times in my panel since I built.
And the heavy circuits are closer to the main.
I cringe just thinking of the work to install the service entrance wiring to that panel.

Laying out the wires neatly into the panel in an art. Mine looks crappy.
 
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dstig1

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I'm not 100% sure, but in residential work, isn't it code for ALL outlets to be only 15 amps now? Or maybe that is just bedrooms, etc?
I won't pretend to have kept current with the code since it became less important to me (in other words - my house is done!) but I have not heard of that limit. Residential has been allowed 15A rated devices (receptacles, GFCI's etc) on a 120V 20A circuit for a long time. A lot also depends on what version your state or locality has adopted. Few places seem to jump on the new code the minute it comes out so most places are behind at least one version, and new ones come out every 3 years. My first question when starting my permit was what version of NEC are we using now? I think it was 2 or 3 behind.

Just for giggles here was my panel when I was done with it. 200A 40 space. Actually I see there are a couple spaces there. It was all full when I was totally done, but I must have been waiting for a couple things when I got to this point. Mains fed from bottom, so I flipped it.
 

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Dstig, that panel is impressive.
I am supposed to have an electrician at the house tomorrow. If he wants me to, I’ll cut a piece of osb, cover the hole and surface mount it. Wont take long.
 

Valveman

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I called the folks at Aqua sciences today. She priced out the stuff I need.
She priced a goulds pump that should give me 15 gallons a minute at 40 psi. At about 2950 and a goulds constant pressure system that would give me 15 gallons per minute up to 70 psi at 2750.
The constant pressure is appealing because there is no well tank involved. The downside is there is no reserved water if you lose power.

Anybody have experience wit this kind of system?

Yes I have lots of experience with pump controls of all kinds. Constant pressure is s good thing. But how you get it is important. The variable speed type pumps may seem to cost less up front because of the smaller wire, but that is just to entice you into purchasing the tar baby and get stuck with replacing it several times for several times the cost over the next few years. The Cycle Stop Valve is s simple mechanical and long lasting way to get good strong constant pressure. The CSV makes pumps last longer, uses smaller tanks, and is considered a disruptive product to the pump industry because it saves you so much money over the years.
 

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Dstig, that panel is impressive.
I am supposed to have an electrician at the house tomorrow. If he wants me to, I’ll cut a piece of osb, cover the hole and surface mount it. Wont take long.
Use a nice sheet of plywood instead of OSB. Make it big enough so you can staple the wires to the plywood.
 

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Yes I have lots of experience with pump controls of all kinds. Constant pressure is s good thing. But how you get it is important. The variable speed type pumps may seem to cost less up front because of the smaller wire, but that is just to entice you into purchasing the tar baby and get stuck with replacing it several times for several times the cost over the next few years. The Cycle Stop Valve is s simple mechanical and long lasting way to get good strong constant pressure. The CSV makes pumps last longer, uses smaller tanks, and is considered a disruptive product to the pump industry because it saves you so much money over the years.
Hi David,

Can you post the pump details from Aqua Science 15 GPM setup quoted as your well/pump will be at 190', 20 GPM output, and water averages around 70' as I recall?

The Goulds 7GS 3/4HP will easily pump 8-10 GPM, and the 10 GS 3/4HP will average around 10-12 GPM at the depth you are running.

You should look at the pump flow charts and for your application I would not get more than a 3/4 HP 10 GPM (10 GS series).

Definitely get the Cycle Stop Valve to prevent pump cycling and then a 8-12 Gal drawdown bladder tank, otherwise each time you run a faucet or use any water the pump will run - and the start/stops is what kills pump life.

I would keep the system simple and not get into the variable speed pumps.

Carl
 

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The pump quoted was 10gpm. It would produce 15gallins per mijute. I am definately houng to avoid the computerized drive. I am at the end of the line for power here. It isnpretty stable most of the time but we have som big storms and wind and lots of people lose power. Spikes are not uncommon.

 
  
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The electrician came to look things over this morning. He will be back friday to do some install work to bring the power into the house. The disconnect and transfer switch.
I have to re run some of my wiring. I have too much for the boxes I am using. Some of it he wants me to redo in 14 instead of 12.
I am pulling the box back out and surface mounting it. Always so fun to redo stuff. It’s the Inexperienced builder tax.
 
  
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Yes I have lots of experience with pump controls of all kinds. Constant pressure is s good thing. But how you get it is important. The variable speed type pumps may seem to cost less up front because of the smaller wire, but that is just to entice you into purchasing the tar baby and get stuck with replacing it several times for several times the cost over the next few years. The Cycle Stop Valve is s simple mechanical and long lasting way to get good strong constant pressure. The CSV makes pumps last longer, uses smaller tanks, and is considered a disruptive product to the pump industry because it saves you so much money over the years.

I appreciate you weighing in. Since you are here, what pump would you recommend? Provided, that I could find it with the way supplies are going these days. Any particular vendor you would recommend?
 

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... Some of it he wants me to redo in 14 instead of 12.
...
Why would anybody want you to remove a bigger wire that's already in place for a smaller wire that cannot handle as much power?

You can never go wrong with a bigger wire, it's just more expensive, but if it's already in place, you can easily run a 15 amp breaker on 12 gauge wire.
 

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My guess is that the electrician doesn't want to deal with a lot of stiff wire in a box.
 

kinglake

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Why would anybody want you to remove a bigger wire that's already in place for a smaller wire that cannot handle as much power?

You can never go wrong with a bigger wire, it's just more expensive, but if it's already in place, you can easily run a 15 amp breaker on 12 gauge wire.
Agreed. I'd have a serious conversation with your electrician before replacing any #12 with #14. I can't think of any valid reason to do so.
 

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Why would anybody want you to remove a bigger wire that's already in place for a smaller wire that cannot handle as much power?

You can never go wrong with a bigger wire, it's just more expensive, but if it's already in place, you can easily run a 15 amp breaker on 12 gauge wire.

Fill ratio is one reason, can put more #14 than #12 in the box. Or, put in larger box. I would not change wiring down unless absolutely necessary.

I use #12 for receptacle circuits, #14 for lighting. And I don’t mix them. I also put in more than code requires. I also don’t use switched receptacles for lights, I have ceiling fans in almost every room.
 

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Eddie is correct.
 

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I haven’t had time to digest all the pump talk, like csv, but find it interesting. Thanks for the input. I want to learn some more for the next time.
 

BigBlue1

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2017
Messages
1,700
Location
Middle MN
Tractor
JD: 2520 & x758
Why would anybody want you to remove a bigger wire that's already in place for a smaller wire that cannot handle as much power?

You can never go wrong with a bigger wire, it's just more expensive, but if it's already in place, you can easily run a 15 amp breaker on 12 gauge wire.
Likely because working with 12 in a box is more difficult.

I always try to get the widest and deepest box I can make work for the application because I hate trying to nicely stash 12ga wire into them.
 

EddieWalker

Epic Contributor
Joined
May 26, 2003
Messages
23,526
Location
Tyler, Texas
Tractor
Several, all used and abused.
I agree that 12 gauge wire is harder to work with, but it's not really that much harder. Can an electrician really be so lazy that he refuses to work with 12 gauge wire?
 

buckeyefarmer

Super Star Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2005
Messages
18,270
Location
MD
Tractor
Kubota L3940 L5030 MF205-4
And if you want to use some of the new WiFi electrical switches, you need the neutral in the switch box. Sometimes they will only bring the hot wire to the switch box. Not all white wires will be neutral.
 
 
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