Need advice on size of Hydraulic line.

ACMan · Nov 29, 2004

Hey Folks,
I just bought a grapple rake for my FEL but I need to run hose from the rear remote forward. My remote lines appear to be 1/2 tubbing. The FEL uses 1/2" tubing to 1/2 rubber hose to 1/2 tubing again (on the loader arms) and then "T"s off with 3/8" rubber hose to the rams.

The rake will have 2 cyinders. I was thinking it would be okay to run 3/8" hose the entire way.

What size hose does your front attachment use?

Thanks

MadReferee · Nov 29, 2004

Use the following as a guide for pressure lines:

1/4" hose for up to 3.5 gpm of flow
3/8" hose for up to 7 gpm of flow
1/2" hose for up to 12 gpm of flow

Hydraulic Reference Page

jinman · Nov 30, 2004

With the smallest hydraulic line listed by MadReferee, you will still have too much flow for that grapple cylinder. You'll have to use a restrictor fitting or a flow control needle valve to adjust the flow. The easiest way is to get an orifice with about 0.030" opening. I'd go with the 1/4" hose because it is the easiest to route up to your grapple.

The 1/2" lines provided by the remote adapter have to be the largest possible size to make use of your 9.5 gpm pump capacity if you need that kind of flow. For your grapple, all you need is a "trickle" to run the grapple's hydraulic cylinder with good control. You can feather your remote valves some, but you'll hear the open center valve close and the pump load up before the fluid begins to flow. When you open the valve a little more, you'll get a surge of fluid that easily will cause the grapple to overshoot and maybe crush something you just wanted to lightly grip. With an adjustable orifice, you will be able to change the setting for different jobs. The adjustable orifice under your tractor seat for the 3PH lowering speed is an example of the type of valve I'm talking about. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

MadReferee · Nov 30, 2004

Jinman, you are right. The numbers and sizes I gave are for pressure lines, not work port lines.

I always like to go one size smaller for work port lines because then in most cases you will not need the restrictor. For the grapple application 1/4" hose will be sufficient and easier to work with when routing the hoses to the front.

ACMan · Nov 30, 2004

Thanks for the replies. I spoke with the Grapple builder and he said the two cylinders will have 1/4 hose.

This is how I would like to do this:

"T" off of the two 1/2 remote tubing lines just after the valve. Use 1/4" steel tubing up to and next to the existing loader couplers. Run 3/8" hose with male fitting from there to where the tubes on the loader arms begin then back to 1/4" tubing to the front of the mount then attach to the 1/4" grapple hose. Just like the existing tubing and hose is set up for the FEL.

Y'all see any problems with this (besides wresting with the bent 1/4" tubing?

Mike

techinNY · Nov 30, 2004

I don't know what type of steel line you are thinking about using but remember you are dealing with high pressure, I can't remember the exact figure but it is up around 3000psi. My suggestion is to run one 1/4" hose from each port of the rear remotes to near the quick couplers for the loader, install a set of quick couplers there so if you want to remove the loader you don't have to unthread the hoses from either way, then continue on down the loader arms to another set of couplers for when you want to remove the grapple, the grapple should be already plumbed so that the "T" fittings are on the grapple. The only other hoses you may need to supply are from the quick couplers to the grapple.

ACMan · Nov 30, 2004

TechinNY
I plan on using 1/4" hose at first for the full route because I have a job to get done this weekend. Plus I'm way too excited to spend a weekend meticulesly plumbing my tractor while my new toys sits. However, later I plan on setting the system up more permanently using steel tubing supplied by a local hydraulic tube, hose and fittings store., The Parker Store. I wanted to install the lines in the same manner as the existing hose and tube system currently set up on my tractor - for my FEL. Similar to how you suggested but with steel tubing when flexibility is not necessary. I think its a cleaner, longer lasting set up that is also less likely to burst through age or damageing debri. I'm hoping that if I can "T" off the remote "steel tubing" then I can also use my rear remote for other attachments when I've detached the grapple rake bucket. Just a neat freek sometimes I guess.

jinman · Dec 1, 2004

While you are adding hoses, you might as well go ahead and get the four short hoses (18"-24") for your curl cylinders made and have them ready to install. Many of us who use our loaders a lot have discovered the four short hoses to the FEL curl cylinders will not hold up.

I've had to replace all four of mine with new hoses. The last one popped last weekend when I was digging out a stump. I have around 800 hours on my tractor. The first hose popped at around 400 hours. Every one of the OEM hoses popped right at the crimped-on connector.

It's just a good idea to get a few spare hoses and keep them handy. Murphy's Law says you will never have a hose go bad when you can easily get a replacement. You'll most likely be 100 miles from the nearest dealer on a Sunday when it happens. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

adlertom · Dec 2, 2004

( The 1/2" lines provided by the remote adapter have to be the largest possible size to make use of your 9.5 gpm pump capacity if you need that kind of flow. For your grapple, all you need is a "trickle" to run the grapple's hydraulic cylinder with good control. )

Would it perhaps be best to run larger lines, such as 1/2", from the rear remotes to the front, in case you wanted to use some other attachment in the future that required more flow?

Perhaps the flow restriction device that Jinman mentioned could be inserted into the line for grapple operation, and removed if some other attachment were used. If the flow restriction device had quick couplers on each end, it could be easily added or removed.

DocHeb · Dec 2, 2004

( Would it perhaps be best to run larger lines, such as 1/2", from the rear remotes to the front, in case you wanted to use some other attachment in the future that required more flow? )

That would be my suggestion - "hardplumb" 1/2" lines just like the FEL lines, and add restriction, if needed, in with the attachment plumbing itself.