patio pergola

   / patio pergola #1  

RxRatedZ71

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Edmond, OK
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JD 3203
Well, our next project is beginning. We have decided to build a 12'x28' cedar pergola on our back porch. We are not affixing it to the house but rather anchoring it to the concrete slab.

We are in the process of staining all the boards with a stain and protectant called TWP ( Total Wood Preservative). Someone said that cedar should be aged before staining it though. Anyone ever heard of that??? They said they coat them in a milky product at the mill to reduce the amount of fibers/ hairs on the rough sawn boards and that prevents a thorough treatment with other products.
 
   / patio pergola #2  
I've heard of prestain treatments, but never on aging the wood. How do you know how old it is and what do you hope to achieve by aging it? Seems to me the best time to stain it is when it's the cleanest.

Eddie
 
   / patio pergola #3  
Well, our next project is beginning. We have decided to build a 12'x28' cedar pergola on our back porch. We are not affixing it to the house but rather anchoring it to the concrete slab.

We are in the process of staining all the boards with a stain and protectant called TWP ( Total Wood Preservative). Someone said that cedar should be aged before staining it though. Anyone ever heard of that??? They said they coat them in a milky product at the mill to reduce the amount of fibers/ hairs on the rough sawn boards and that prevents a thorough treatment with other products.

I have never heard of allowing them to age.

You have already started, so this maybe too late, but are you staining to preserve the golden color of the cedar?

We have built a number of cedar outdoor structure and always allow them to age/weather grey. The downside fo the stain is that it will require retreatment every 1-2 years. The down side of not staining, is the grey color.
 
   / patio pergola #4  
Well, our next project is beginning. We have decided to build a 12'x28' cedar pergola on our back porch. We are not affixing it to the house but rather anchoring it to the concrete slab.

We are in the process of staining all the boards with a stain and protectant called TWP ( Total Wood Preservative). Someone said that cedar should be aged before staining it though. Anyone ever heard of that??? They said they coat them in a milky product at the mill to reduce the amount of fibers/ hairs on the rough sawn boards and that prevents a thorough treatment with other products.

Found this post in a thread on "This Old House". Seems to answer part of your question.

Re: New cedar deck - when to stain?

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Traditionally, new cedar decks would be allowed to age for close to a year, this to ensure that the grain had opened up enough to let the stain penetrate deep into the wood. New smooth cedar usually has some degree of "mill glaze" on it. This is caused by the spinning planer blades that made the board smooth. The blades create heat and polish the board, sealing the grain - mill glaze.

To test for the presence of mill glaze, simply pour a little water onto the cedar and watch what happens. If the water beads up and sits on top of the wood for the better part of an hour, you have mill glaze. If the water sheets out and obviously is being drawn into the grain of the wood, you do not have mill glaze.

If you stain over mill glaze, it will look great - until next spring when it will fail! You must get rid of the glaze, either by natural aging, sanding, or by treating with oxalic acid. Oxalic acid is the main ingredient of most deck brighteners.

If you elect to sand, do not use too fine a grit of sandpaper, as it too can cause mill glaze, especially when used on a power sander.

Behr's 2 in 1 Deck Brightener contains oxalic acid. Flood the deck with the properly diluted solution, keeping the deck wet with the solution for at least a half hour. A vigorous scrubbing with a bristle scrub brush will aid in opening the grain. Then rinse off and let dry down.

Aging the deck is the least effort. Cedar is full of oils which will protect it naturally for a long time. It is naturally rot resistant and will not be damaged or even begin to gray in a years time. After the water test shows the mill glaze is no longer present, you can treat the deck with either an oil or water based stain.

Unlike interior stains, which only provide color, exterior decking stains provide both color and sealing protection. You do not need aa extra seal/protection coat over exterior stains.

Generally, the more pigment in a stain, the more protection, as it is the pigments which block the sun's UV rays. All oil stains with which I am familiar, require a yearly maintenance coat. After a few maintenance coats, the color can begin to look somewhat solid or opaque. Cabot's, Penefin, and Sikkens are three brands with which I have had good luck over the years. Cabot's "Clear Solution" will give your deck that great look it has right after the rain has wet it, but clear oil has the least protection from the sun. Stay away from products such as Thompson's Waterseal which is loaded with silicons. The silicon presents problems down the road, as nothing will stick to silicon, including more silicon!

The water soluble stains tend to have longer lives, but when they fail, will probably require that you strip the deck - not fun! They too require maintenance coats, but generally at longer intervals.
 
   / patio pergola #5  
I just finished a small pergola last summer with paint that I have attached to the house. Although I used white cedar here is a link to the cedar association (could not find one for white). I followed these recommondations Siding, deck, deck design, fencing, gazebos, sheds & pergolas. I also used all stainless steel hardware.

They indicate that you should not let the cedar weather.
 
   / patio pergola
  • Thread Starter
#6  
Well we specified "rough" sawn and it appears they are exactly that. We used 2 single gallon cans and then discovered the 3rd & 4th cans were improperly mixed at the plant. Basically the pigment wasn't dissolved and just balled up in the liquid. We swapped them out and all seems to be going as planned. My wife is trying to get them stained while im at work so that i can come home to begin constructing.

We are hoping to preserve the golden color and prolong the graying of the boards so i think we are right in staining now. Can those stains be applied with a sprayer or spray gun and compressor? Im always searching for excuses to justify buying a new tool or gadget.
 
   / patio pergola
  • Thread Starter
#7  
Another question: when drilling into a concrete slab for lead sleeves and anchors, must you get a hammer drill or can a regular mortar bit and patience work? I only need 5 holes at 5/8" diameter.
 
   / patio pergola #8  
Another question: when drilling into a concrete slab for lead sleeves and anchors, must you get a hammer drill or can a regular mortar bit and patience work? I only need 5 holes at 5/8" diameter.

What condition is the slab in? If it is in good condition, you will want a hammer drill. Try it with a a regular dril and a masonery bit first. If it is too slow, you can always switch over.

For the anchors, are you using the expanding sleeve type? I ask because they are not recommend at the edge of a slab-you could blow out/crack the edge of the slab. I have done it...I am just saying there is a risk. If the hole is on the edge of the slab, I have switched to using a special epoxy and galvanized threaded rod (from Strong-tie).
 
   / patio pergola #9  
Another question: when drilling into a concrete slab for lead sleeves and anchors, must you get a hammer drill or can a regular mortar bit and patience work? I only need 5 holes at 5/8" diameter.

What condition is the slab in? If it is in good condition, you will want a hammer drill. Try it with a a regular dril and a masonery bit first. If it is too slow, you can always switch over.

For the anchors, are you using the expanding sleeve type? I ask because they are not recommend at the edge of a slab-you could blow out/crack the edge of the slab. I have done it...I am just saying there is a risk. If the hole is on the edge of the slab, I have switched to using a special epoxy and galvanized threaded rod (from Strong-tie).
 
   / patio pergola
  • Thread Starter
#10  
This was a productive weekend for the pergola project, despite the 95+F weather. It seems we always pick the hottest part of the year to complete our largest projects around here. We got all of the structural lumber stained last week and just yet to finish the upper-most 2x2 slats. We used the Simpson StrongTie 6x6 post braces to anchor the post to the slab (using a sleeve and lag-bolt). However, with rough cut lumber I forgot to take into account the posts' size being 5 3/4". With some minor "tweeking" with my trusty hammer the braces were willing to comply with little resistance. One post was concreted into place and then we began on the 2x8x12's. IMG_5246.jpgIMG_5249.jpgIMG_5253.jpgIMG_5254.jpgIMG_5260.jpg
 
 
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